Only 2 Visa Exempt Entries At Border Crossings Per Calendar Year Effective Dec 31st

[cocoonclub]

When will this come to effect? Is it already?  Guess I have to play immigration roulette soon: 

 

Came here earlier this year for six weeks using 2x 30 days, no problem, all via air though (stayed in Thailand four weeks, then Burma one week, then Thailand another week). Am here now again for another six weeks. Stamping in wasn't a problem beginning of December (I came by air). I'll leave the country before new year and will return after new year until mid of January (not sure whether air or land and it'll be only for 7-10 days I believe until my flight back home). 

 

Reading the new regulation I hope I'll be fine; still getting a bit nervous. Let's see. 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Took said:

Hello,

 

Will those who are staying in Cambodia on a multiple-entry visa and want to 

leave for Thailand by land and get back to Cambodia be affected by this new 

regulation as well?

Yes they will be affected unless they allow exceptions for people that have been out of Thailand a period of time.

 

[cruisemonkey]

2 hours ago, dbrenn said:

All the recent changes seem to be making it harder for those trying to stay here for extended periods on a tight budget. This change only applies to land crossings, multi entry visas are only available from home country, consulates in the region cracking down, people getting grilled, etc.

 

The well off, conversely, are being given additional visa options - new Thai Elite 20 year visa, new 10 year retirement visas and the like.

 

'Poor guys out, rich guys in.'

[ubonjoe]

Just now, cocoonclub said:

When will this come to effect? Is it already?  Guess I have to play immigration roulette soon: 

On December 31st as written in the topic title.

It goes into effect 30 days from the date it was published in the royal gazette which was the 1st of December. 

[griedarw]

9 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

When will this come to effect? Is it already?  Guess I have to play immigration roulette soon: 

 

Came here earlier this year for six weeks using 2x 30 days, no problem, all via air though (stayed in Thailand four weeks, then Burma one week, then Thailand another week). Am here now again for another six weeks. Stamping in wasn't a problem beginning of December (I came by air). I'll leave the country before new year and will return after new year until mid of January (not sure whether air or land and it'll be only for 7-10 days I believe until my flight back home). 

 

Reading the new regulation I hope I'll be fine; still getting a bit nervous. Let's see. 

I was flying out/in, never done any land crossings, and I still got flagged at the Airport Immigration Desk. 

Then got sent to the immigration office for processing by another immigration officer. Unfortunately the officer I got was a total c*nt that day and was sticking it to everyone. 

As others have already noted, if in doubt, come prepared with 20K, proof of return flight & hotel booking. 

 

I have since been to the Immigration HQ in Bangkok and they told me that as long as I have a tourist visa then I won't get flagged at the immigration counter (they only flag those that enter with Visa Exemptions). I believe the tourist visas are currently free so if might be worth you getting one to avoid any hassle. 

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, griedarw said:

I was flying out/in, never done any land crossings, and I still got flagged at the Airport Immigration Desk. 

Then got sent to the immigration office for processing by another immigration officer. Unfortunately the officer I got was a total c*nt that day and was sticking it to everyone. 

As others have already noted, if in doubt, come prepared with 20K, proof of return flight & hotel booking. 

 

I have since been to the Immigration HQ in Bangkok and they told me that as long as I have a tourist visa then I won't get flagged at the immigration counter (they only flag those that enter with Visa Exemptions). I believe the tourist visas are currently free so if might be worth you getting one to avoid any hassle. 

 

I do have some sympathy for guys who only have a short break in Thailand eg a week or so and are working in an area where it's difficult or virtually impossible to get a visa.

It means time that should be with family ends up being lost while travelling outside Thailand to get the proper visa.

[Dogmatix]

It's pretty obvious that the system of visas, including this new regulation, are not going to inconvenience the type of tourists that come on long trips to Thailand and the region, e.g. gap year students or new graduates taking a year off to travel, retirees making a long, slow tour of Asia.  These tourists enjoy their long trips but are unlikely to repeat the same type of trip for a few years, if ever.  

 

I find it odd that people refer to themselves as 'expats' and own condos in Thailand or houses in girlfriends' names and yet are dependent on visa exemptions to come to Thailand which they regard as their home or second home.  There are plenty of options available for getting a visa but, if someone is either unable or unwilling to avail themselves of any of these options, why would they commit themselves to owning property in a country they have no legal basis to live in or regard it as home?

[dluek]

It will make problems for some legitimate travelers if strictly enforced as worded. It's not uncommon for backpacker types to fly in/out of Bangkok and use Thailand as a central hub with overland side trips to various countries. For ex., in the past you could easily hop to Malaysia from Ko Lipe just for Langkawi and Penang, then back to Thailand, then hop to Burma via Ranong for a bit, and later hop to Laos for a week to hit Luang Prabang. Now I guess you'd have to fly back from one of those, which would be inconvenient if you prefer overland travel; airports with reasonably priced flights are more limited than border crossings for most neighboring countries. Not everyone wants to spend a day or two getting to Yangon just so they can fly into Thailand. It's easily conceivable to spend no more than 2-3 weeks in Thailand while re-entering the country 3 times overland. 

 

I also think it's presumptuous to say that "2 months" (or whatever length of time you like) is "enough for tourism purposes." I was recently on Ko Phayam and little Ko Chang in Ranong province, and both of those islands draw lots of honest long-term tourists who return every year, often to the very same bungalow, for long periods of relaxation. Lots of Germans doing this in particular. 

 

 

[griedarw]

3 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 why would they commit themselves to owning property in a country they have no legal basis to live in or regard it as home?

In my case, when I bought the condo the immigration laws entitled me to a long term visa (non O) . However, the immigration rules have since changed and I no longer qualify for a Non O. 

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, griedarw said:

In my case, when I bought the condo the immigration laws entitled me to a long term visa (non O) . However, the immigration rules have since changed and I no longer qualify for a Non O. 

 

Bummer!!

When did that change happen.

I don't own a Condo myself but never realised that had changed.

[brewsterbudgen]

7 minutes ago, griedarw said:

In my case, when I bought the condo the immigration laws entitled me to a long term visa (non O) . However, the immigration rules have since changed and I no longer qualify for a Non O. 

 

If you met the conditions of the investment visa back then, you should have been "grandfathered" in.  A friend of mine qualified for and got an investment visa back when a 3m baht condo purchase qualified, and she has received extensions based on this every year since then.

[griedarw]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

 

Bummer!!

When did that change happen.

I don't own a Condo myself but never realised that had changed.

The new rule for Non O (investment) visa is that the owner has to buy the condo from a NEW project (directly from project company). 

Previously, you had to spend 10+ million THB. It didn't have to be a new project. 

[griedarw]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

If you met the conditions of the investment visa back then, you should have been "grandfathered" in.  

Unfortunately for me,  the rule change came into place before I could make my first application. 

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

It's pretty obvious that the system of visas, including this new regulation, are not going to inconvenience the type of tourists that come on long trips to Thailand and the region, e.g. gap year students or new graduates taking a year off to travel, retirees making a long, slow tour of Asia.  These tourists enjoy their long trips but are unlikely to repeat the same type of trip for a few years, if ever.  

 

The limit is within 1 year.  Many gap-year and similar types would cross into Thailand more than 2 times via land-borders, given Thailand borders more than 2 countries, and the purpose would be to travel around in those countries and see things, working one's way back into Thailand as a hub.  That is now over, unless they are going to spend time getting visas, buying re-entry permits, air-tickets, etc - which does not correlate with relaxing and traveling here and there on a whim.

 

6 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

I find it odd that people refer to themselves as 'expats' and own condos in Thailand or houses in girlfriends' names and yet are dependent on visa exemptions to come to Thailand which they regard as their home or second home.  There are plenty of options available for getting a visa but, if someone is either unable or unwilling to avail themselves of any of these options, why would they commit themselves to owning property in a country they have no legal basis to live in or regard it as home?

 

 

2 minutes ago, griedarw said:

In my case, when I bought the condo the immigration laws entitled me to a long term visa (non O) . However, the immigration rules have since changed and I no longer qualify for a Non O. 

 

This - Exactly.   When many first came here, the rules were very different, and no dark-clouds on the horizon.  Thailand was a welcoming country if you came from a nation with higher wages (so not a threat of stealing jobs).  You could get a 1-Year Non-O from your home-consulate just for having a friend here.   The "investment" requirement was 3M Baht - not 10M, as it is now.

 

Anyone without a PR or Citizenship is building a house of cards. 

 

I'm going to keep renting, as this new immigration strategy (in general, not just this one rule) blows any chance of a good return on a condo-investment to shreds.  The good bets are where they welcome people earning incomes in the new economy, not encourage them to put down roots somewhere else as they work their way up in income in the hope they will show up when already an "elite."   If you think the Chinese economy will keep going, maybe buy a hotel with cheap-rooms for their short-time visitors - but i would not bet on that ship staying afloat, either.

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

 

If you met the conditions of the investment visa back then, you should have been "grandfathered" in.  A friend of mine qualified for and got an investment visa back when a 3m baht condo purchase qualified, and she has received extensions based on this every year since then.

 

I would imagine it must be religiously extended every year without a break.

Losing the extension by bad travel timing or forgetting re-entry permit would probably kiebosh the whole thing.

[griedarw]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

 

I would imagine it must be religiously extended every year without a break.

 

After 3 successive years (no breaks) then you qualify to apply for a Residency Permit (that doesn't mean it will be approved) 

[NorthernRyland]

How is this even new? Last May I got denied my first visa exempt entry of the calendar year at Mae Sai meaning I was allowed 0 visa exempt entries at land borders. This was following the law from the previous year of no more "in-out" visa runs and made clear by the official at Mae Sai.

[steven100]

Good to clamp down on long time stayers that aren't legitimate tourists. 

About time.

If you are planning to stay in Thailand for an extended period ensure you have the correct visa.

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Good to clamp down on long time stayers that aren't legitimate tourists. 

About time.

If you are planning to stay in Thailand for an extended period ensure you have the correct visa.

 

True, but could be put in a more sympathic fashion.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Bilateral agreement entries are not effected by this since they do not fall under the ministerial regulations for visa exempt entries. That is also why they cannot get the 30 day extension of their entries.

Malaysians get a standard visa exempt entry and is mentioned because it is a neighboring country. They also get a 30 entry at the Malaysian border. They only get 15 days at other crossings.

 

Thanks - just to be clear: the 14 day visa free entry for Cambodians and Laotians is not affected by this?

[overherebc]

2 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I find this attitude perplexing. Is it a general rule of life that no one should ever undertake any illegal activity? In places where sodomy is illegal, are sodomites expected to remain celibate?

 

Strange leap from visa exempt to Sodomy.

[SaintLouisBlues]

10 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Strange leap from visa exempt to Sodomy.

It'ss about obeying the law. I'm happy to substitute something perhaps closer to home for some TV members - adultery

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Border passes are limited to border markets right next to the immigration checkpoint, not further. For example, the Roing Klua market in Aranyaprathet. Cannot go into the town. The only people those passes are useful for are the traders who work in the border market.

 

There is a separate system which provides a special yellow card that allows migrant laborers to work in adjacent province for 1 week at a time only. Limited to residents of certain areas in Camb and for work only in a few provinces in Thailand, and within 7 days must retrun. Not really suitable for the middle class shoppers nor the many Cambodians who get health care in Thailand.

 

One would have thought that the bi-lateral agreement would take precedence but since the regulation mentions only Malaysia as an exception this seems not to be  the case.

 

It's of considerable concern to me as I have an adopted Cambodian family who often come to visit (4-6 times a year); my sister will be having cataract surgery in Thailand next year which will involve at least 4  trips just for that (one eye at a time, and the follow-ups). I have a Cambodian guard/gardener whose wife often visits, and whom I will have trouble retaining if she no longer can.  Huge hassles.   So really need to know if this applies to Cambodian nationals.

 

For your sister is there anyway that you could assist by going to the consulate/embassy and act as 'sponser' for want of a better word, to obtain a visa of some kind for her. ( METV )

I don't know if it's possible or not, just a thought.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I find this attitude perplexing. Is it a general rule of life that no one should ever undertake any illegal activity? In places where sodomy is illegal, are sodomites expected to remain celibate?

If one wants to live in a country it makes sense to do so legally and according to the intentions of the immigration laws. Do differently and dont be surprised if life gets more difficult.

[stevenl]

Just now, overherebc said:

 

For your sister is there anyway that you could assist by going to the consulate/embassy and act as 'sponser' for want of a better word, to obtain a visa of some kind for her. ( METV )

I don't know if it's possible or not, just a thought.

Not applicable since they don't enter visa exempt over land. There is bilateral agreement with Cambodia.

[overherebc]

4 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

It'ss about obeying the law. I'm happy to substitute something perhaps closer to home for some TV members - adultery

 

Both of those aren't done under close scrutiny of Imm' though.

[sjaak327]

17 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

So if you are questioning my estimation that 95% of people arrive by air on VE is wrong and I am more than happy to be proved wrong as my % was a estimate i'm sure you have the real number at hand, you must have as you clearly think I am wrong?

 

So please enlighten me with the real number, please, you must have it right?

Well we DO know that around 30% of arrivals in the Kingdom are from China, they cannot arrive on visa exempt, therefore the 95% figure cannot possibly be correct.

[DrTuner]

Behold the Great Nomad Exodus to Vietman.

[PattayaAJF]

I work in China and make probably 10-15 entries/exits per year .. never staying in Thailand for more than a couple of weeks on average per month .. when i returned to live here in 2011 some friends suggested that i didn't need to get a visa because i would always get 30 days when i came in (Australian Passport) ..

 

at the the time i decided to go for the retirement option and and have renewed it every year on time without fail .. it looks in hind site that i made the right decision ..

 

my last extension a week or so ago Jomtian Immigration only asked for the usual Statutory Declaration from the Australian Embassy about income and 2 photos .. nothing else ..

 

my conclusion is that if you follow the "intention" of what Immigration wants then life remains relatively stable and gets easier every year .. of course i may be living in a "fools" dream .. only time will tell .. 

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Well we DO know that around 30% of arrivals in the Kingdom are from China, they cannot arrive on visa exempt, therefore the 95% figure cannot possibly be correct.

 

Using figures that way, 90% 95% etc is just a throw out statement similar to 'how many million times do I have to remind you'.

It's just an expression.