Video: TM30: Thailand’s controversial immigration laws and their consequences - FCCT event

[TSF]

They keep bringing up the Erawan Shrine bombing as one of, if not the, prime reason for knowing foreigners whereabouts. Yeah, great idea, like a terrorist flies in Thailand to carry out a planned bomb attack and he/she is going to report all their movements to immigration. 

[thesetat2013]

2 hours ago, hansnl said:

I guess the current "tightening of the screws" is based on what is going on in China, same-same as it were.....

Quite logical, seeing the build up of the powers to be.

Hardly the same. China does not require anything when travelling to other cities inside China then returning to your registered address

[deecfc67]

I keep seeing posts by people saying it's not such a big deal to pop in to your local I.O. when returning from a trip.

 

However, if you happen to live on either Koh Phangan or Koh Tao, the nearest I.O. is on Koh Samui.  And take make matters even worse, they are one of the I.O.'s that do not allow reporting online (they did for a very short while, and it was perfect the one time it worked for me a few years ago).

So, if anyone living on either of these two islands takes a trip to another province, they are then expected to take the ferry to Samui and back, just to inform Immigration that they have returned!

[Kadilo]

You get the impression the more the see us talking about it the more they  are gloating in the knowledge of how much of a <deleted> up it is for everyone. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Kadilo

[holy cow cm]

So much good the TM 30 has done them with the southern conflict or in reality tracking real criminals. This is all about rubbing the soles of their feet on our good guy long term stayers heads. 

[sjbrownderby]

On a Facebook page that is administered by this guy Brousseau I entered into a discussion with other users regarding this very issue. I said that something had changed in the way the law was being applied, Brousseau accused me of spreading misinformation. He threw a mini-tantrum saying he didn't have time for this and barred me from the Facebook page. He seems to have changed his tune somewhat. 

[brian2f2f]

2 hours ago, yellowboat said:

For you, but for the bed hopping Casanovas, it is a serious issue.  You cannot spend the night at any number of your girl friends places.  Suppose camping is a big no no.  Back packers waiting flights at the airport are out of luck.  It is dimwitted thinking by xenophobe who refuse to learn from others.  Again, Thailand is showing it is special in not a good way.  China has similar laws, but not as stringent as Thailand.  I was a little late registering my China apartment, and the lady police officer just laughed and said "It is okay, relax".  Thai immigration could probably take a few pointers from their Chinese counter parts on how to treat foreigners nicely.  Yes the absurdity is mind blowing.  I know. 

 

After years of being bullied by the green team, the FCCT is finally allowed to hold debates.  Baby steps

When I was in China all they asked was if going to stay there for more then a month to go to the local police station and provide your address incase they need to get a hold of you or anything happens to you so they know where you live to get a hold of you. But only once not every single time for every single little thing like here. 

[Tchooptip]

3 minutes ago, deecfc67 said:

I keep seeing posts by people saying it's not such a big deal to pop in to your local I.O. when returning from a trip.

 

However, if you happen to live on either Koh Phangan or Koh Tao, the nearest I.O. is on Koh Samui.  And take make matters even worse, they are one of the I.O.'s that do not allow reporting online (they did for a very short while, and it was perfect the one time it worked for me a few years ago).

So, if anyone living on either of these two islands takes a trip to another province, they are then expected to take the ferry to Samui and back, just to inform Immigration that they have returned!

In 24 hours please!

It would have been a perfect example for the general in the movie????
But as anyway he did not really answer the questions it would not have changed anything.

[thailand49]

Today I went down to Jomtien Immigration with my brother he needed a residential certificate. I was down there last week and ask for the form for a residential and what was needed the small slip made no mentioned of a TM30 required.

My brother has been doing Retirement for 15 years and as of today has never done a TM-30 same here been following the rule don't open a can of worms and never was asked if we had one.

Today, went into the door to the front counter, he asked for the form Residential and was told take this TM-30 and fill it out, they were just passing it out to everyone. He look at it and said " so take it home and fill it out and have his wife sign it "  response just go over there and fill it out and take it into the room which he did leaving the line unsigned. He wasn't ask for prove of his home nothing they just cut off the bottom and staple it to his passport just like they do with the 90 report!

Then he went to window #6 for residential and told to come back two days? 

Jomtien anyone experience this this week?

[Jumbo1968]

I did my TM28 at Jomtien today, my owner lives in Germany so doesn’t do a TM30 so I do a TM28 too cover the backside.

i had all the documentation, I had done it before so knew what was required. I went too Reception the girl checked the Documentation, she stamped the bottom half, cut it off and give it back too me. The Documentation she put under the desk, I didn’t even have go into Immigration.

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Anyone who says the petition hasn't achieved anything, this is a lot of affected people and immigration in one room talking about TM30.

It wouldn't have happened without the petition.

And nothing will !

[TKDfella]

Well, I'm sorry to have to report...we (expats) haven't seen anything yet. On a different issue I went to my bank this morning to have them countersign my 'Certificate of Existence' (pension). This I have done with no trouble in previous years but today I'm told that new rule for foreigners...'no can do, go to (Udorn) Amphoe office (registration). Thought I'd try Immigration first. Same answer. Waited to see manager at Amphoe. I was told that there are new registration & financial rules (yet to be ratified) regarding foreigners in the province (implied national). Although I wasn't allowed to read it, he showed me a several page folder, which he claimed, contained the details. Now since the TM 30 is also about registration I wondered...well you can guess. Seemed all to coincidental to me. Maybe, some these 'new rules' will be in our favour...or am I being naive?

Anyway, I showed him my yellow book, car registration book in my name, passport, bank books and drivers license and asked him if he would countersign my form for me (after all, that is what I was there for). He refused saying that the "certificate' and accompanying letter were not officially authenticated...now where have I heard that before?

Eventually had it signed by a Doctor but...is it just a matter of time before they too are affected by any new rules?

(maybe I should have written this as a new thread, Ha!)

 

[Fore Man]

Thais in general cannot think logically in the typical western manner. They tend to overreact and cannot see the fallacies in their thinking. As many of us have already said, the vast majority of foreign expats living here full-time import huge sums into the Kingdom to purchase homes and then well provide for their predominantly Thai families.  It is as plain as the potato noses on our farang faces that we aren’t the problem, but Thai authorities simply refuse to accept it.  

 

I never realized just how xenophobic the nation and its people are until this, my 16th year here. I’ve been quite satisfied living here until now, but all this ridiculous backlash against us is making me seriously thinking of leaving. It also frankly bothers me that our embassies are apparently doing nothing to try to counter the ill treatment being levied against their long term citizens who choose to remain here.

 

I’ve concluded that the Thais will not resolve their pettiness and that we must knuckle under to the absurdity they continue to create...or we must vote with our feet. I didn’t relocate halfway around the globe to spend my retirement being treated with contempt through unfair immigration policies that flirt with violating basic human rights. We all hope that the government...someone high enough to instill some sense in its immigration department...will stop this senseless bashing of foreigners.  We ask simply to be left alone to live out our waning lives peacefully in our host nation to enjoy the many good qualities that attracted us to Thailand in the first place.  

[Emmess]

A complete waste of time watching this. No logic, nothing sensible said. Including many of the farangs ????

[Orton Rd]

2 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

 We ask simply to be left alone to live out our waning lives peacefully in our host nation to enjoy the many good qualities that attracted us to Thailand in the first place.  

For some that Thailand does not exist any longer, the past really is a different country here.

[DrTuner]

Cue back to ca. 2012, when I first mentioned immigration act 37 & 38 in TVF .. 'never going to be enforced' 'maibpenrai' 'if you don't like it..' 

 

Told ya bloody so. Now I shall prophesy next up will be modification of police orders. And it ain't going to be for the benefit of aliens.

[Austrian26]

4 hours ago, SammyT said:

Pretty much just here to see the ranting of angry expats. My TM30 reporting takes up a few hours each year. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. 

and i had to move to another condo because my old one didn´t do it

 

and my new one also doesn´t do it 

 

so <deleted> it ???? 

[kevinmartyn]

This TM30 "BS" reminds me of "Brexit" just dragged on! ????

[DrTuner]

47 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I did my TM28 at Jomtien today, my owner lives in Germany so doesn’t do a TM30 so I do a TM28 too cover the backside.

i had all the documentation, I had done it before so knew what was required. I went too Reception the girl checked the Documentation, she stamped the bottom half, cut it off and give it back too me. The Documentation she put under the desk, I didn’t even have go into Immigration.

And under the desk was probably a cardboard box, ready to be put on a shelf once full. In other words that form will never be seen again nor the data ever entered anywhere. Useless harrassment.

[Spock]

2 hours ago, SammyT said:

Pretty much just here to see the ranting of angry expats. My TM30 reporting takes up a few hours each year. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. 

But there are added impositions now which may require more than a few hours each year if you decide to stay elsewhere for a few days. If being nailed to the spot is your thing, by all means defend the process. Oliver Cromwell is alive and well and ruling in Thailand.

[plachon]

Watching the VDO and how the chief of Police was unable or unwilling to answer even the most simplest of questions (e.g. what has changed now with regards to enforcing this law?) and his sidekicks in and out of uniform were similarly unable to reasonably address the actual content of questions put to them, but brushed aside serious questions with banal comments and irrelevancies, reminded me very much of scenes from a Dostoyevsky or Kafka novel. Thailand was always a labyrinthine bureaucratic place, filled withe outdated and irrelevant laws that were spottily applied at best, but occasionally the political dinosaurs would emerge from their and insist they were executed to the letter of the law and without consideration of fit for purposeness. But it seems the present regime is taking this old rule of thumb to a whole new level of Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole ridiculousness and will certainly be shooting that poor old Siamese elephant in its foot as a result. ????

[hagai]

What a farce. Not even one simple question was properly answered.

All foreigners that are still undecided whether to leave or stay should see this video.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Cue back to ca. 2012, when I first mentioned immigration act 37 & 38 in TVF .. 'never going to be enforced' 'maibpenrai' 'if you don't like it..' 

 

Told ya bloody so. Now I shall prophesy next up will be modification of police orders. And it ain't going to be for the benefit of aliens.

I can go back 5 years ago and siracha immigration wouldn't do my 90 day until a TM30 was done and the landlord came in and payed a fine (solved by driving 40 ks to Jomtien). Also GF had to do a TM30 6 years ago when I moved in to her house and did an extension (Samut Sahkon). There has been some enforcement over the years. I dont think people realise but immigration used to just fill it in on the fly as you did your extension and it went in your file. (one of those sign here documents)

[NightSky]

Good to see the FCC standing as a voice for a proportion of the expat community. I thought some of the questions asked by Dominic Faulder, Richard Barrow and the panel was very brave to stand up and ask those questions directly to the police commander of imm div 1.

 

After watching the video I see that the older laws are being enforced without thought of how and why they worked when introduced but not how they would work and be implemented today.

 

Its clear even immigration doesn't have the correct resources to implement and manage these laws. Nationalistic paranoia is also apparent to me but this is happening all over the world - not a good thing at all.

 

It will take the next recession to reverse nationalism and open up globalism again which is what nature has planned for us humans anyhow.

 

In the meantime its good to know there is an outlet no matter how small so that its not all one way -- some cultures are more authoritarian than democratic, with hierarchy and layers of authority. This makes a two way conversation very difficult, the FCC managed this well done.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by NightSky

[gunderhill]

3 hours ago, Beggar said:

No but they will need to apply for a terrorist visa. 

Bet those  cost a  bomb

[Jumbo1968]

I don’t see a real problem with doing TM 30 or 90 Day Reporting providing it is consistent in every Immigration Office and there is an efficient online system. Why wrong with a government who want too determine the whereabouts of aliens in their country ?

 

Obviously contradicting myself people who want too stay under the radar will never do any kind of reporting.

 

Its a pity the U.K. don’t adapt such systems as when people arrive in the U.K. on a Visa they can just ‘disappear’ into thin air not unless some one ‘shops them’

[gunderhill]

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

For what it's worth, not a single thai i spoke with believes this non sense; they all thing it's bat shit crazy.

Including the  TAT survey woman at the airport who thought it was  very odd  when i told her every time I leave my province, never  mind outta  here in 2 hours, sit back relax into the lie flat bed , back to sanity.

[Traubert]

5 hours ago, hansnl said:

I guess the current "tightening of the screws" is based on what is going on in China, same-same as it were.....

Quite logical, seeing the build up of the powers to be.

There's nothing going on in China. System has been the same for the last five years.

 

We only report in when we leave the country and return. My multi entry resident permit runs for three years, no interim reporting, no cash requirement, no nothing, and its cheap. 3600bht equivalent. Chinese green card is a lot easier than Thai PR from what I've read.

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, Emmess said:

A complete waste of time watching this. No logic, nothing sensible said. Including many of the farangs ????

you could have gone along though but didnt eh, well done

[Jimdandy]

Not much more clarification.