Returning to Thailand After Expiration of Blacklist Period

[DFpad]

Hello,

 

I was blacklisted 10 years ago for working in Bangkok on a project without my company having the correct visa's in place. It has been confirmed I am definitely on the blacklist for a duration of 5 years. The 5 years has long passed and I am now eligible to apply to return to Thailand. I have contacted various lawyers and also applied for Thailand Elite (I dont have the money for it but wanted to see what they had to say). Thailandelite said I am not eligible to apply until I have engaged a lawyer to clear things with Immigration first. I am getting different stories from the lawyers - one saying they can apply for my removal but I need justification for returning (implying vacation is not a good enough reason).Another saying they will lobby on my behalf.

 

Is there anyone here that has actually gone though this process? Can you please advise on how best to do this and how long it takes.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

[ubonjoe]

Immigration should of already removed the blacklisting if it has already expired but they often fail to remove it from their system.

I don't think there is a requirement for you to a have valid reason for entering the country.

[DFpad]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Immigration should of already removed the blacklisting if it has already expired but they often fail to remove it from their system.

I don't think there is a requirement for you to a have valid reason for entering the country.

Sadly, I am still on the list. Thailandelite actually checked with immigration before they would accept my application. They said I should get a lawyer to contact Immigration on my behalf to request removal - apparently its not automatic ????  As a result, I have contacted lawyers and getting mixed messages from them on what is required.

Edited May 9, 2020 by DFpad

[ubonjoe]

I don't think it is all that difficult to get the blacklisting removed from their records if it has already expired.

[darksidedog]

I agree with Joe that getting it removed once expired should not be difficult. If your lawyer or whoever is trying to tell you that it is, or are suggesting large fees are needed, drop them and find another, as they will simply be trying to overcharge you.

Send me a PM if you need a reliable contact.

[lopburi3]

This is probably not the best time to be doing such as nobody is currently being allowed to enter Thailand for any reason so what will be the case in a month or two is still up in the air (there may be work/family requirements for those coming first and likely to be quarantine so tourists would not want to come and different countries may be subject to different rules).  We are trying to come out of a black hole.

[DFpad]

19 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

This is probably not the best time to be doing such as nobody is currently being allowed to enter Thailand for any reason so what will be the case in a month or two is still up in the air (there may be work/family requirements for those coming first and likely to be quarantine so tourists would not want to come and different countries may be subject to different rules).  We are trying to come out of a black hole.

I was thinking that it's going to take some time to process so best initiate now.

 

[natway09]

Where do you come from ?

I believe if you have well done your time if a visa on arrival is possible it will be given.

Bring your old passport to prove same. It may take half an hour but you will get in if you do not have a criminal record here

[kingstonkid]

Personally I would contact one of the larger more prominent law firms and have them do it on your behalf.  It might cost a little more but it will get done.

[Tuvoc]

On 5/9/2020 at 6:04 AM, DFpad said:

I was thinking that it's going to take some time to process so best initiate now.

 

 

I agree, get it done now and then it opens up plans for the future when you are ready.

[ChipButty]

Strange that didn't seem to happen 10 years ago maybe now yes, getting fined for no WP was about normal

[007 RED]

OP…. Like @ChiButty said above, it was quite unusual 10 years ago for someone to be banned from entering the Kingdom for working without a work permit.

 

As far as the ‘blacklist’ facility within the Immigration system is concerned it functions on the end date of the imposed ban and if that was 5 years ago it should not show up when the basic interrogation of your record is done e.g. by the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) when you check in to fly to Thailand, or when the Immigration Officer scans your passport at the point of entry.

 

The end date of the ‘blacklisting’ facility within the Immigration system should be entered in Gregorian calendar format, that it to say the current year should be 2020.  The problem arises when an IO enters the end date in the Thai calendar format with the current year 2563.  Unfortunately, when the Immigration system checks the date format when the details are entered it cannot distinguish between the two calendar formats.  This problem has occurred quite a few times.

 

It has been suggested that you contact a lawyer, but as you have already discovered they will give you mixed answers.  Remember, they are trying to make money out of you.

 

If as you said you were banned for 5 years, some 10 years ago, then your ban has well and truly expired.  I would suggest before purchasing any ticket to travel to Thailand that you contact Thai Immigration Headquarters (address given below), and explain in simple terms that you were banned for 5 years, 10 years ago, and wish to return to Thailand (no need to explain why you want to return) - keep it short and simple.  Provide them with a copy of the photo page, exit stamp and banned stamp from the passport you had at the time of your ban. 

 

Contrary to what many people will tell you they (Immigration) can be quite helpful at times.

 

Thai Immigration HQ address:

 

Royal Thai Police – Immigration Branch, 507 Thanon Suan Phlu, Thung Maha Mek, Sathon, Bangkok 10120  (Mark your correspondence: For the Attention Of The Immigration Commissioner).  

 

Tel: +66 2287 3101   Fax: +66 2287 1310  (sorry no email Facebook address available).

 

If they reply and confirm that your ban has been completed and that you are free to enter Thailand make sure that you bring a copy of that with you just in case.

 

FYI…… The details of your 5 year ban will not be expunged from the Immigration database, it will always be lurking there somewhere in the background. 

 

Best of luck.

[darrendsd]

3 hours ago, Nigel Sri Thanonchai said:

As I have explained previously Royal Thai Immigration do not remove Blacklist ,you will be denied entry and returned to your country ,you will need to PM me and I will direct you to the woman who will remove you from the List

If you knew your stuff you would know it's doubtful he will even get to Thailand - His blacklist entry will show when he checks in for his flight and he will be denied boarding

 

Happened to a few who have posted on here when they have been blacklisted

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, natway09 said:

Where do you come from ?

I believe if you have well done your time if a visa on arrival is possible it will be given.

Bring your old passport to prove same. It may take half an hour but you will get in if you do not have a criminal record here

If you try to check in for a flight to Thailand while on the blacklist, the airline will receive a DNB ("do not board") instruction which comes without explanation, and is pretty much unappealable. I have heard different stories on what happens if you arrive at a land boarder with the original court documents and old passport. Some suggest that it is possible to appeal the denied entry with a good chance of success. Definitely better to ensure you are removed from immigration's database as a PNG before trying to come.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post (nonsensical)

[fuzzie]

I was deported and blacklisted in 2016 , after a prison sentence, I originally pleaded not guilty, but had to change my plea witness run of and didn't show in court, who would be the best to find out if one day would like to return,  (Not wasting time with lawyer's had enough of there false promises.  ?

[ChipButty]

5 minutes ago, fuzzie said:

I was deported and blacklisted in 2016 , after a prison sentence, I originally pleaded not guilty, but had to change my plea witness run of and didn't show in court, who would be the best to find out if one day would like to return,  (Not wasting time with lawyer's had enough of there false promises.  ?

I think yours would be a different story having done jail time

[DFpad]

Hi,

 

To recap, 12 years ago I was placed on the blacklist for 5 years for working with no work permit.

 

I have just paid for a lawyer (recommended by a good friend in Thailand) to check the blacklist. The lawyer came back saying that their immigration contact said I am not in the blacklist.

 

Sounds great, but several lawyers I contacted 3 years ago said I would always remain on the blacklist and that I should apply to Thai Immigration for permission to enter as 5 years has passed (I did this a year ago but no reply from Thai Immigration). If Thai Immigration grant me entry, he said they would flag my record in the blacklist against my name saying OK to enter. (i.e I would still be in the blacklist but allowed to enter).  This conflicts with lawyer one who said I am not on the blacklist now.

 

I have a dilemma:

 

1. Do I get a 3rd opinion?  OR

 

2. Travel to Thailand now and see what happens?

 

If I do travel:

 

Land Border crossing - if I am still on the blacklist they perhaps will just turn me around on the spot and tell me to go back to Cambodia/Malaysia (i.e. not send me to the IDC in BKK and deport me).

 

Fly. If I fly I may get a Do Not Board (DNB) at check-in. But, if for some reason I don't get a DNB and arrive in BKK and am still on the blacklist, the lawyers from 3 years ago said I will likely get arrested, taken to the IDC and then deported.

 

I would appreciate any input.

 

Thanks.

Edited October 23, 2022 by DFpad

[Iamfalang]

1 hour ago, DFpad said:

Land Border crossing - if I am still on the blacklist they perhaps will just turn me around on the spot and tell me to go back to Cambodia/Malaysia (i.e. not send me to the IDC in BKK and deport me).

Interesting.  Will wait for an expert.   It seems like most of us (without an expert opinion) would try this option.  I'd try it.  If blacklisted, you just turn around and don't enter.  At an airport, seems much scarier.    I don't see them arresting you at all, it's not a warrant.   Rejected at a land crossing would be a headache, and that's it.    Good luck.   Just start in a country you don't mind staying in if you can't get into Thailand. I have a feeling you will be allowed in.  

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, DFpad said:

2. Travel to Thailand now and see what happens?

If I do travel:

Land Border crossing - if I am still on the blacklist they perhaps will just turn me around on the spot and tell me to go back to Cambodia/Malaysia (i.e. not send me to the IDC in BKK and deport me).

You should try doing an entry since your ban ended several years ago. And you do have one person stating it is no longer a problem to enter the country.

By land would be a good option. Just turn around and re-enter the other country.

By air is also a option if you have a return or onward ticket you could use if denied entry. They would probably put you in detention until your flight out was available.

[BritTim]

First, if you are denied entry, you will never be taken to the IDC and deported. That is not how a denied entry works.

 

If you try to fly into Thailand, there are three possibilities:

1. The airline will receive a DNB (do not board) instruction from Thai immigration via the Advance Passenger Information System. This is very frustrating, as it is usually impervious to any negotiation.
2. You arrive in Bangkok, and Immigration tell you that you are blacklisted, and will be denied entry. At this point, you have a chance to argue your case, and will probably ultimately be allowed to enter. If not, you will be held for a few hours at the airport until the airline that brought you to Thailand arranges your removal.
3. You arrive and enter without incident.

Entering by land, you will either be admitted without incident, or Immigration will try to send you back. You will have a chance to argue your case and, at some land crossings, they will probably make the effort to determine whether you ought to be blacklisted, ultimately admitting you.

 

A possible strategy would be to buy a ticket (important: same airline) that transits Bangkok to Vientiane or Kuala Lumpur. On arrival in Bangkok, try to enter. If unsuccessful, the airline should be happy to remove you on the already booked onward flight. You could then try to negotiate your way across by land.

 

It would be possible (but expensive) to have a well connected Thai immigration lawyer aware of your planned arrival flight, and prepared to assist you with the negotiations with Thai immigration on arrival. This relies on dodging a DNB instruction via APIS which is why I suggest only seeming to transit in Bangkok.

[DFpad]

On 10/23/2022 at 4:08 PM, BritTim said:

First, if you are denied entry, you will never be taken to the IDC and deported. That is not how a denied entry works.

 

If you try to fly into Thailand, there are three possibilities:

1. The airline will receive a DNB (do not board) instruction from Thai immigration via the Advance Passenger Information System. This is very frustrating, as it is usually impervious to any negotiation.
2. You arrive in Bangkok, and Immigration tell you that you are blacklisted, and will be denied entry. At this point, you have a chance to argue your case, and will probably ultimately be allowed to enter. If not, you will be held for a few hours at the airport until the airline that brought you to Thailand arranges your removal.
3. You arrive and enter without incident.

Entering by land, you will either be admitted without incident, or Immigration will try to send you back. You will have a chance to argue your case and, at some land crossings, they will probably make the effort to determine whether you ought to be blacklisted, ultimately admitting you.

 

A possible strategy would be to buy a ticket (important: same airline) that transits Bangkok to Vientiane or Kuala Lumpur. On arrival in Bangkok, try to enter. If unsuccessful, the airline should be happy to remove you on the already booked onward flight. You could then try to negotiate your way across by land.

 

It would be possible (but expensive) to have a well connected Thai immigration lawyer aware of your planned arrival flight, and prepared to assist you with the negotiations with Thai immigration on arrival. This relies on dodging a DNB instruction via APIS which is why I suggest only seeming to transit in Bangkok.

Thanks. I am thinking I will try and transit via BKK airport. The flight I am looking at is Thai Airways inbound - transit - Thai Smile outbound.   I understand that Smile is part of the TG group but will this combination constitute a same airline transit (both TG flight numbers)?

[Rhys]

 Hmmm why return?

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, DFpad said:

Thanks. I am thinking I will try and transit via BKK airport. The flight I am looking at is Thai Airways inbound - transit - Thai Smile outbound.   I understand that Smile is part of the TG group but will this combination constitute a same airline transit (both TG flight numbers)?

I do not know the answer to that question. As far as Thai immigration is concerned, they will be treated as separate airlines. However, depending on how the organisational structure works, the airline supervisor for Thai Airways might be both happy and empowered to put you on the Thai Smile flight if the worst came to the worst. If the Thai Smile subsidiary operates more independently, there could be a turf battle that prevents this from happening. I am not sure how you can find out. This is not the kind of question you can expect to be answered by simply emailing Thai Airways.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, DFpad said:

Thanks. I am thinking I will try and transit via BKK airport. The flight I am looking at is Thai Airways inbound - transit - Thai Smile outbound.   I understand that Smile is part of the TG group but will this combination constitute a same airline transit (both TG flight numbers)?

Unless the flights allow you to transit by remaining in the arriving flight area and then to the departure area  you would have to clear immigration in Bangkok.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Unless the flights allow you to transit by remaining in the arriving flight area and then to the departure area  you would have to clear immigration in Bangkok.

Joe, the plan is to try to enter Thailand (never using the outbound flight). However,

1. He wants to avoid a DNB (Do Not Board) instruction to the airline if he is still banned from entry to Thailand. The fact that his itinerary shows him only transiting in Bangkok will hopefully accomplish that.
2. If he is denied entry, he wants to ensure that he is sent to a nearby country, not back to the UK. I suggested that if he already had a soon to be departing flight on the airline that brought him to Thailand, the airline would be strongly incentivised to simply put him on that flight if he is denied entry.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by BritTim

[MrJ2U]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:49 AM, DFpad said:

I am now eligible to apply to return

Fly into Cambodia and do a land crossing.  Any problems you can head back to Cambodia.

 

Honestly I really enjoy Cambodia Phenom Phen is no slouch where night life and beautiful girls are concerned

 

Good luck! 

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, BritTim said:

oe, the plan is to try to enter Thailand (never using the outbound flight). However,

I got topics mixed up and the Thai Smile flight made me think of a domestic flight.

 

Edit: I don't think will be denied entry. But I would suggest he have a TM11 appeal form ready to force them to double check about the black listing.

 

Download: TM11 appeal form.pdf135.52 kB · 188 downloads

 

[problemfarang]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:06 PM, 007 RED said:

and explain in simple terms that you were banned for 5 years, 10 years ago, and wish to return to Thailand (no need to explain why you want to return) - keep it short and simple.

i would DEEPLY explain them why i want to return to thailand after they banned me because of illegal working... 

the first question comes to mind would be... again?

[DFpad]

Hi,

 

Thank you for all of your input. I have decided to go and do a land border crossing in two weeks.

 

To confirm, the situation. One lawyer told me recently:

 

"The immigration office has informed us that your name is not listed on the list of people prohibited from entering Thailand."

 

Incident was 12 years ago.

 

Within the first year of the incident, I was on a trip with Thai Airways from Malaysia to Vietnam that transited in BKK. Whilst in transit, I tried to get through immigration for a couple of hours and they stopped me, but let me go into the business lounge to wait for my connection as I already hard the boarding pass for the onward flight (i.e. I wasn't deported).

 

Two years later I had a similar trip to Hanoi with a transit in BKK. First flight was with Thai Airlines and the connection was with Vietnam Airlines from BKK to Hanoi. When I checked in for the first flight I got a "DNB" but after a lot of discussion they let me board because of my connection through to Hanoi.

 

So, certainly 10 years ago I was on a "list".

 

1. Is it possible that immigration perhaps migrated within the last 10 years to a new system and my blacklist hasn't been carried across? This would explain the lawyer getting a response form an immigration officer that I am not on any list at this time?

 

2. I am going to make the land border crossing anyway as I need to know. I have researched the various land crossings from Malaysia and Cambodia - is there any border crossing that you would advise that may make this easier?

 

Thanks

Edited August 20 by DFpad