Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[kst]

8 hours ago, moochai87 said:

Hi all - this maybe have already been answered but there are a lot of pages to read through ???? . I am currently preparing to apply for my Thai citizenship. I am currently British and so would like to know: do I need to give up my British citizenship, or can I hold dual citizenship with both British and Thai passport?

You will need your embassy to endorse an "intention to renounce citizenship" document which is required as a supporting doc for Thai citizenship process. 

 

But that is just that (i.e. an intention). Many here have gotten Thai Citizenship and have not needed to forgo their original citizenship. 

 

Just dont screw up where your past & present will then be digged up and used against you.. 

[david143]

Yesterday i got my Blue ID . after fighting with ID section.

 

[heiri007]

3 minutes ago, david143 said:

Yesterday i got my Blue ID . after fighting with ID section.

 

Excellent news and congrats! Why don't you share the details of the fight ????

[david143]

I visited my Amphur on 1st Sep .
They said we will call you back after 3 days.
I didn't get any call,
on Monday 6 SEP , i called Amphur myself and they informed me come Tomorrow on TUESDAY 7 @ 9 AM
I took my Day off from Work , i was on the way for Amphur , i was in half way when Officer called my mobile and said i have problem at my home flooding i will not able to go Amphur, please come on 8 SEP @ 9 AM.
I took another Day off from Work, Went to Amphur 8:15 , officer was already there, he took 3 hours to complete my Blue Book process.
it was 11:45 AM
next step ID card section, once i went to that section they said  you have to come tomorrow , we don't take Walkin , <deleted> , i was already out of my mind since the day first, and yesterday everything has been out , i was with my 2 brother in Law, my wife and my father in law.
We DAA nak ti sud laey, i am not you servant to come everyday for you, yesterday i took day off, today i took day off, and now you telling me i need another day off, who the hell are you to say so, you are Govt staff i pay Tax so you get salary, nearby office was Boss, he took us in his Office and say sorry and said kindly wait i will sort out,
after 10 min he back in office and said please come back @ 3 pm, and we will process your ID.
My question was only 1.
all the staff free, playing mobile, no customer at all, and you can't process my ID , i need my ID today , there is no Tomorrow, we all working .
so i got ID card @ 16:15 all amphur staff gone, only 3 left for me to process my ID.
Damn i took 3 day off, in 9 days,
The day got Certificate, The day you called me and staff absent, yesterday for ID.
Now whenever another Tang Dao will come for ID which is they need to process 19 People from 4 and 5 RG, they will consider them really good.
I waited for 3 hours for Blue book , staff should tell me go and get que , they are all shut up and that is the point we got it to Daa them naaaak ti sud baa oye
i Got my Shiny Blue card at 16:15 with no fees and actually amphur already closed since 15:30 ????

Edited September 10, 2021 by david143

[heiri007]

22 minutes ago, david143 said:

I visited my Amphur on 1st Sep .
They said we will call you back after 3 days.
I didn't get any call,
on Monday 6 SEP , i called Amphur myself and they informed me come Tomorrow on TUESDAY 7 @ 9 AM
I took my Day off from Work , i was on the way for Amphur , i was in half way when Officer called my mobile and said i have problem at my home flooding i will not able to go Amphur, please come on 8 SEP @ 9 AM.
I took another Day off from Work, Went to Amphur 8:15 , officer was already there, he took 3 hours to complete my Blue Book process.
it was 11:45 AM
next step ID card section, once i went to that section they said  you have to come tomorrow , we don't take Walkin , <deleted> , i was already out of my mind since the day first, and yesterday everything has been out , i was with my 2 brother in Law, my wife and my father in law.
We DAA nak ti sud laey, i am not you servant to come everyday for you, yesterday i took day off, today i took day off, and now you telling me i need another day off, who the hell are you to say so, you are Govt staff i pay Tax so you get salary, nearby office was Boss, he took us in his Office and say sorry and said kindly wait i will sort out,
after 10 min he back in office and said please come back @ 3 pm, and we will process your ID.
My question was only 1.
all the staff free, playing mobile, no customer at all, and you can't process my ID , i need my ID today , there is no Tomorrow, we all working .
so i got ID card @ 16:15 all amphur staff gone, only 3 left for me to process my ID.
Damn i took 3 day off, in 9 days,
The day got Certificate, The day you called me and staff absent, yesterday for ID.
Now whenever another Tang Dao will come for ID which is they need to process 19 People from 4 and 5 RG, they will consider them really good.
I waited for 3 hours for Blue book , staff should tell me go and get que , they are all shut up and that is the point we got it to Daa them naaaak ti sud baa oye
i Got my Shiny Blue card at 16:15 with no fees and actually amphur already closed since 15:30 ????

Good lord. The really frustrating part about all this is how some khets over-exercise their authority. Since RG publication you are a Thai citizen. All they have to do issue the according documents to you. No ifs and no whens, they don't have any decision power. HM signed, the interior minister signed, you got all the paperwork.

[david143]

1 minute ago, heiri007 said:

Good lord. The really frustrating part about all this is how some khets over-exercise their authority. Since RG publication you are a Thai citizen. All they have to do issue the according documents to you. No ifs and no whens, they don't have any decision power. HM signed, the interior minister signed, you got all the paperwork.

they are lazy for work, and this is impossible for me to accept .
and i am 100% agree with you,.

[sinthavee]

59 minutes ago, david143 said:

Yesterday i got my Blue ID . after fighting with ID section.

 

Hearty Congratulations & Best Wishes, brother. This is great, though late.

[david143]

Just now, sinthavee said:

Hearty Congratulations & Best Wishes, brother. This is great, though late.

thanks Brother

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, david143 said:

I visited my Amphur on 1st Sep .
They said we will call you back after 3 days.
I didn't get any call,
on Monday 6 SEP , i called Amphur myself and they informed me come Tomorrow on TUESDAY 7 @ 9 AM
I took my Day off from Work , i was on the way for Amphur , i was in half way when Officer called my mobile and said i have problem at my home flooding i will not able to go Amphur, please come on 8 SEP @ 9 AM.
I took another Day off from Work, Went to Amphur 8:15 , officer was already there, he took 3 hours to complete my Blue Book process.
it was 11:45 AM
next step ID card section, once i went to that section they said  you have to come tomorrow , we don't take Walkin , <deleted> , i was already out of my mind since the day first, and yesterday everything has been out , i was with my 2 brother in Law, my wife and my father in law.
We DAA nak ti sud laey, i am not you servant to come everyday for you, yesterday i took day off, today i took day off, and now you telling me i need another day off, who the hell are you to say so, you are Govt staff i pay Tax so you get salary, nearby office was Boss, he took us in his Office and say sorry and said kindly wait i will sort out,
after 10 min he back in office and said please come back @ 3 pm, and we will process your ID.
My question was only 1.
all the staff free, playing mobile, no customer at all, and you can't process my ID , i need my ID today , there is no Tomorrow, we all working .
so i got ID card @ 16:15 all amphur staff gone, only 3 left for me to process my ID.
Damn i took 3 day off, in 9 days,
The day got Certificate, The day you called me and staff absent, yesterday for ID.
Now whenever another Tang Dao will come for ID which is they need to process 19 People from 4 and 5 RG, they will consider them really good.
I waited for 3 hours for Blue book , staff should tell me go and get que , they are all shut up and that is the point we got it to Daa them naaaak ti sud baa oye
i Got my Shiny Blue card at 16:15 with no fees and actually amphur already closed since 15:30 ????

Well I am glad you got your ID card without having to take yet another day off work. Your khet is an utter disgrace - a load of idle bustards.  It is reminiscent of the old style kararatchakarn lording it over the peasantry.  There are old stories of peasants being made to wait outside in the sun while the lords and ladies went out to have lunch or told to come back another day after they had walked shoeless for 10km to their local district office.  My own blue book update and ID card stint also took the whole day from 9.00 am to after 4.00 pm.

 

You remind me of something that others should be warned of.  I had the same experience where the ID card section tried to tell me to "f" off and come back another day because I hadn't made an appointment with them. I said I had actually come in personally and made the appointment but they pathetically argued that appointment was just with the tabien baan section which was completely unrelated and they had no contact with them, even though they are in the same room.  Of course this is ridiculous that they can't coordinate with each other and that the tabien baan section can't warn you to make a separate appointment with their colleagues.  It is advisable to make appointments with both sections separately, even though you have no idea how long the tabien baan section can take.  Maximum seems to be 3 hours.  

 

[david143]

2 minutes ago, Arkady said:

Well I am glad you got your ID card without having to take yet another day off work. Your khet is an utter disgrace - a load of idle bustards.  It is reminiscent of the old style kararatchakarn lording it over the peasantry.  There are old stories of peasants being made to wait outside in the sun while the lords and ladies went out to have lunch or told to come back another day after they had walked shoeless for 10km to their local district office.  My own blue book update and ID card stint also took the whole day from 9.00 am to after 4.00 pm.

 

You remind me of something that others should be warned of.  I had the same experience where the ID card section tried to tell me to "f" off and come back another day because I hadn't made an appointment with them. I said I had actually come in personally and made the appointment but they pathetically argued that appointment was just with the tabien baan section which was completely unrelated and they had no contact with them, even though they are in the same room.  Of course this is ridiculous that they can't coordinate with each other and that the tabien baan section can't warn you to make a separate appointment with their colleagues.  It is advisable to make appointments with both sections separately, even though you have no idea how long the tabien baan section can take.  Maximum seems to be 3 hours.  

 

That is What i forgot to mentioned.
Take both ques

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, david143 said:

Yesterday i got my Blue ID . after fighting with ID section.

 

ยินดีด้วยครับ 

 

Very happy for you ???????????? 

[david143]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

ยินดีด้วยครับ 

 

Very happy for you ???????????? 

ขอบคุณมากนะพี่ชาย

[DrJoy]

3 hours ago, david143 said:

Yesterday i got my Blue ID . after fighting with ID section.

 

Congratulations !

[yankee99]

3 hours ago, david143 said:

Yesterday i got my Blue ID . after fighting with ID section.

 

Today after my 1st visit to the tesabaan last week i got my name in the house book. After a week of them preparing it took exactly 2.5 hours but it was painless and the guy doing it was very nice but was constantly texting someone with questions and used up all his whiteout. 

 

Off to the district office for my id only to find out at 11am there were no more queue tickets. Will return Monday 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, yankee99 said:

Today after my 1st visit to the tesabaan last week i got my name in the house book. After a week of them preparing it took exactly 2.5 hours but it was painless and the guy doing it was very nice but was constantly texting someone with questions and used up all his whiteout. 

 

Off to the district office for my id only to find out at 11am there were no more queue tickets. Will return Monday 

Great, nearly there! 

My khet in Bang Kae did it all very quickly, a couple of hours to get on the blue book then 1.5 hours for the ID. 

[kst]

6 hours ago, david143 said:

Yesterday i got my Blue ID . after fighting with ID section.

 

Congrats! 

 

I am still waiting for mine.. 

[heiri007]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Great, nearly there! 

My khet in Bang Kae did it all very quickly, a couple of hours to get on the blue book then 1.5 hours for the ID. 

Not sure how long back this is, but seems like things are a bit more complex now than some time ago. Just one of many signs how Thailand is regressing.

Edited September 10, 2021 by heiri007

[BKKBike09]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:28 PM, Lacrimas said:

Thanks that's a good idea. I have to hire two Thais though, right?

As others have said, it depends. Officially 4, but some are able to swing it with 2. My company (registered in Bangkok for nearly 20 years) has two foreign directors (me + 1 other) who both have PR, are both married to Thais for many years etc. We've been fine with 2 Thai staff per WP for several years now. Previously we had another director who was married to a non-Thai and because of that Labour Dept insisted that every WP required 4 staff. That was a pain. I've just had my WP renewed and - in time honoured "who'd a guessed it" fashion - this time apparently the message came from on high at the LD that next year we may not be allowed to have only 2 Thai staff per work permit and that the decision is to be based on whatever visa each WP holder had when first applying for the WP. How they come up with this stuff beats me ... but hopefully by this time next year I'll have my Thai ID and this sort of nonsense will fade into distant memory.

[Neeranam]

19 minutes ago, heiri007 said:

Not sure how long back this is, but seems like things are a bit more complex now than some time ago. Just one of many signs how Thailand is regressing.

This was only in Dec last year. A fast, friendly experience. 

However, came across a couple of idiots, who seemed intent on making things harder, when I was choosing my Thai name, back in 2018. I had to get my parents' passports copied and my birth certificate translated and legalised. 

[BKKBike09]

On 9/8/2021 at 10:12 AM, moochai87 said:

Hi all - this maybe have already been answered but there are a lot of pages to read through ???? . I am currently preparing to apply for my Thai citizenship. I am currently British and so would like to know: do I need to give up my British citizenship, or can I hold dual citizenship with both British and Thai passport?

The UK doesn't care. Thailand requires that you give up your other nationality. In practice, the Thai authorities have never requested proof that this has been done. However ... I've lived in Thailand on and off (mostly on) since the late 1980s. Just because something has never been done before here despite being on the statute books does not mean that it will never happen. TM30 reporting strikes me as quite a good example of this.

 

In the past (pre about mid 2018) the British Embassy would issue a formal declaration that X has sworn an oath in person before a Consular Officer that he/she intends to renounce British nationality if granted Thai nationality. That oath was quite significant in the sense that to make a false declaration was an offence under UK law. However, nowadays the Embassy doesn't offer this service. Instead they issue a letter by post stating that X has told the Embassy that he/she he/she intends to renounce British nationality if granted Thai nationality BUT the Embassy then helpfully adds that the Embassy has no way of verifying if this happens and also that UK permits dual nationality. IMHO, this letter basically says to the Thai authorities "this person has said they'll do this but maybe they won't", which makes it perhaps harder for the Thai authorities to turn a blind eye.

 

So, I say to everyone who applies for Thai nationality: you may very well be able to get away with not giving up your original nationality if your country doesn't care BUT you should be prepared also to give it up. If that is not an option for you, think very carefully because if you get Thai nationality and then have to give it up, in true snakes and ladders fashion you go back to being Joe Blow on a Tourist Visa. If you previously held PR (as I do), that's gone. This is why PR - much maligned by many - is still a good half-way house option for anyone who wants to live long-term in Thailand and is eligible to apply (3 years on WP required etc) - it doesn't affect citizenship.

 

In the case of the UK, there is a get out of jail card in that the Nationality Act (1991 I think) allows for people born before the Act who are forced to give up UK citizenship to get a second nationality, to get back UK nationality (a one-time gig). So, if you were born in the 1980s or earlier, that is an option.

 

I'm sure many people will say that I am over-thinking and that there are so many tens of thousands of naturalised Thais that this will never come to pass. They may well be correct. But it would be foolish, in these days of ever greater online data exchange between governments and between departments at a national level, not to consider it. Pre-Covid, a benefit of a Thai passport was using the e-channels. This meant no physical inspection of a passport by an Immigration Officer. Since Covid, the e-channels have all been U/S and everyone goes through a manual inspection on leaving Thailand. I'm not sure how a white dude - or any apparently non-ethnic Thai - would explain to a Thai IO why his Thai passport doesn't have a UK visa, if the IO chose to ask. The only explanation would be that person has a second, non-Thai, passport. Pair that with an IO who's having a bad day for whatever reason and things could quickly become very sticky. I have heard of some naturalised Thais who will not fly direct to UK / USA or whatever for this reason, but will instead always transit through Hong Kong or Singapore or somewhere that does not require a visa for Thai nationals to enter. That way, the journey our of Thailand can be presented as a simple "I'm off to Hong Kong" trip. Strikes me as a lot of hassle but one can understand why some people might choose to do this.

 

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

Thailand requires that you give up your other nationality. In practice, the Thai authorities have never requested proof that this has been done.

There is no such requirement in the Nationality act. 

They cannot request proof for something that is not required. 

[heiri007]

33 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

This was only in Dec last year. A fast, friendly experience. 

However, came across a couple of idiots, who seemed intent on making things harder, when I was choosing my Thai name, back in 2018. I had to get my parents' passports copied and my birth certificate translated and legalised. 

The requirement in the local khet for ID issuance, each on different days - and I have the blue tabien baan already:

1. Submit all docs
2. Interview to double-check and verify all docs
3. Head of khet wants to personally approve each candidate - this despite HM already has so
4. Hopefully get a call from khet for ID issuance
5. ID issuance...

That's the ideal case.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Very Well Done, you naturalized Thais ! Thought my 12 week struggle for Tabian Baan & Pink ID was hardcore until reading your posts here ! Have Family & Property here but will proceed no further ….

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

The UK doesn't care. Thailand requires that you give up your other nationality. In practice, the Thai authorities have never requested proof that this has been done. However ... I've lived in Thailand on and off (mostly on) since the late 1980s. Just because something has never been done before here despite being on the statute books does not mean that it will never happen. TM30 reporting strikes me as quite a good example of this.

 

In the past (pre about mid 2018) the British Embassy would issue a formal declaration that X has sworn an oath in person before a Consular Officer that he/she intends to renounce British nationality if granted Thai nationality. That oath was quite significant in the sense that to make a false declaration was an offence under UK law. However, nowadays the Embassy doesn't offer this service. Instead they issue a letter by post stating that X has told the Embassy that he/she he/she intends to renounce British nationality if granted Thai nationality BUT the Embassy then helpfully adds that the Embassy has no way of verifying if this happens and also that UK permits dual nationality. IMHO, this letter basically says to the Thai authorities "this person has said they'll do this but maybe they won't", which makes it perhaps harder for the Thai authorities to turn a blind eye.

 

 

 

Surely a declaration of intent is not binding. Someone may have an intention to do something but due to changing circumstances, that intention may change. Anyway, as you say, the UK really does not give much weight to such things. 

 

As to leaving the country, surely it is the responsibility of the airline check-in people to make sure you have the requisite documents/visas to actually be allowed on their flight (the airline is responsible for repatriation (flying you back) if you do not have a valid visa as you should not have been allowed on the flight in the first place). It is not the responsibility of the Thai authorities to make sure you have a visa for your destination country. That is the responsibility of the immigration authorities in the destination country. 

 

Having said that, if for some reason you had absolutely no choice but to select Thai citizenship or citizenship of your home country, I would have no qualms about choosing Thailand. Having lived here for 39 years and visited the UK only 5 times in that period (once repatriated, once for a funeral, once for work and twice for holidays (the latter 2 in the past 5 years), I really don't have a reason not to select Thailand.       

[Dogmatix]

3 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

Since Covid, the e-channels have all been U/S and everyone goes through a manual inspection on leaving Thailand. I'm not sure how a white dude - or any apparently non-ethnic Thai - would explain to a Thai IO why his Thai passport doesn't have a UK visa, if the IO chose to ask. The only explanation would be that person has a second, non-Thai, passport. Pair that with an IO who's having a bad day for whatever reason and things could quickly become very sticky. I have heard of some naturalised Thais who will not fly direct to UK / USA or whatever for this reason, but will instead always transit through Hong Kong or Singapore or somewhere that does not require a visa for Thai nationals to enter. That way, the journey our of Thailand can be presented as a simple "I'm off to Hong Kong" trip. Strikes me as a lot of hassle but one can understand why some people might choose to do this.

What happened to the e-channels? Are they expected to be reopened or are they gone forever?

 

Flying to Europe via Moscow on Aeroflot is another visaless option, although when I went with the missus it took the immigration officers about 10 minutes of thumbing through her Thai passport saying visa, visa to figure out that Thai passports didn't need visas.

[Dogmatix]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

As to leaving the country, surely it is the responsibility of the airline check-in people to make sure you have the requisite documents/visas to actually be allowed on their flight (the airline is responsible for repatriation (flying you back) if you do not have a valid visa as you should not have been allowed on the flight in the first place). It is not the responsibility of the Thai authorities to make sure you have a visa for your destination country. That is the responsibility of the immigration authorities in the destination country.     

In the days before e-channel IOs did indeed take it upon themselves to question people with a boarding pass to a farang country and no visa in the Thai passport and ask to see their foreign passport, whether this was to double check the work of airlines and ensure that the passenger would not be inconvenienced by being denied entry to the destination country was never made clear.  I had a Thai guy working for me over 20  years ago who had a US passport because he was born there.  On the way to the US he got this treatment and had to show his US passport to the IO who said you do know it is illegal for Thais to have a foreign passport. My staff member said he didn't and the IO gave him back the passport and let him go on his way. Someone who was a farang naturalised Thai, perhaps it was the OP, reported having had the experience several times before the e-channels without the admonition about the illegality but with a sour glare from the IO each time. I have never heard of this happening on the return journey, only on the way out which may give credence to the theory they are double checking the airlines' work. I personally had to go through a manual channel about 4 years ago but the IO fortunately didn't look for a visa. IOs can be expected to be of the opinion that dual nationality is or should be illegal in general but they know there are lots of them and are probably ignorant about the subtle distinctions between look krung, those born in the Kingdom to alien parents before 1971 or to PR parents after 1971, Thais who have naturalised as aliens and those who have naturalised as Thais. Of course it wouldn't take much to get them to single out those who look like naturalised Thais, although, if the e-channels were to be restored, the pickings would be limited to unfortunates unable to use the e-channels.  Another thing possibly on the horizon is the system that already exists in some countries which links immigration with the airlines.  Of course there are in normal times many thousands of dual Thai citizens travelling in and out, who could potentially be picked up on such a system, most being look krung and Thais naturalised as aliens. Maybe one should not overthink all this it but it's something to be born in mind. I have known people who were very concerned before e-channels and some always flew via a third country and a couple of guys went to the trouble to get visas for Europe or the US which is a complete PITA. In fact it is no longer possible for Brits to get a UK visa in a foreign passport but they are allowed to issue one, if you can show your Brit passport has expired and not been renewed. Be prepared for the third degree at interview though, if you do this.  The treatment at the visa centre you get will be the same as any other Thai which might mean you actually get rejected.  

 

  

Edited September 10, 2021 by Dogmatix

[david143]

I have a Question.
i got online Que for Thai Passport on 12 October, is that OK i will go for Cancellation of Visa on same day.
There is no Que for Passport until 12th OCT.
If its OK please share your experience.

[BKKBike09]

14 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no such requirement in the Nationality act. 

They cannot request proof for something that is not required. 

With respect, I believe you are mistaken. Clause 19.2 of the 2008 Act is clear.

 

Section 19. The Minister shall have the power to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization, if it appears that:

(1) the naturalization is effected by concealment of facts or making false statement of essential facts;

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality;

(3) having committed any act prejudicial to the national security or conflicting with the interests of the State or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) having committed any act in contrary to the public order or good morals; (5) having resided aboard without having a domicile in Thailand for more than

(5) having resided aboard without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;

(6) having retained the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

 

http://web.krisdika.go.th/data//document/ext810/810050_0001.pdf

[BKKBike09]

10 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

What happened to the e-channels? Are they expected to be reopened or are they gone forever?

 

I think it's just temporary during the dog-days of minimal international travel. All those IOs need to do something. 

[cobra]

Easier to get into Skull and Bones at Yale then enter into this ridiculous process, 

but Kudos on proving the theoretical possibility that it can be accomplished at all.