Sinovac Safe?

[habuspasha]

 

I am trying to convince my Thai partner to get vaccinated even if with the Sinovac vaccine.  She says she will not take Sinovac because people have taken it and died.  When I ask for evidence, she says everybody knows this, everyone in her family believes this, it’s been on television, no one will take it now.  My question is: Is this any more than rumor bred on fear and mistrust?  Is there any evidence that Thai recipients of Sinovac have died from it?  Is this a pervasive belief in Thailand anyway?

 

I know it is not as effective as other jabs and like them can cause temporary discomfort.  But everything I read says it is not dangerous and it is better than nothing. She counters with distrust of the government.  Says they hide covid deaths. I say they have a greater interest in protecting Thai made AZ.  But I can't discern rumor from reality in Thailand from my current perch in the U.S.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[internationalism]

my friend, young female medic, had serious health problems after the second sinovac.

multiple check ups, including mri brain scan.

despite all possible medicines she has recovered only in 80%, that's after 1 month.

 

give her sinopharm, even if at 1k per shot and even if 3 shots. Coming in June, probably at the end of month. Still, it will be faster, than astrazeneca.

 

if she is not in a risk group there is no need to jump line

Edited May 29, 2021 by internationalism

[Patong2021]

The safety of the Sinovac  aka Coronavac is unknown.   No one can say if it is safe or even what the likelihood of serious adverse reactions are because the Chinese have provided limited and unreliable information.

 

If you look at the existing facts;

- Sinovac Biotech Ltd. the manufacturer of the   vaccine  has not published any data in an academic journal.

- The WHO had not approved the vaccine because of the lack of information.

The  media release  cited evidence gaps in safety in pregnancy and on safety and clinical protection in older adults, those with underlying disease, and evaluation of rare adverse events detected through post-authorisation safety monitoring.   WHO had a “moderate level of confidence” that the risk of serious adverse effects was low in people aged 59 and less, but had a “low level of confidence” in the quality of evidence that such risk was also low for adults above 60. “We have low confidence in the quality of evidence that the risk of serious adverse events in individuals with comorbidities or health states that increase risk for severe COVID-19 following one or two doses of CoronaVac is low,” they added.

 

Maybe the vaccine is safe. I don't know. No one does. What I do know is that it has not met the same rigorous  reporting standards as have   Oxford, Jansen, Pfizer and Moderna.  It is unethical to distribute a vaccine with an unknown safety characteristic.

 

IMO, Thailand made a big mistake  going with China vaccines, but Thailand will never admit to that.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Patong2021

[4005]

You should follow news from countries that use Sinovac. Uruguay just published some results. I am not sure whether they also examined the safety.

You should also read yesterdays Thai English-language newspaper that cannot be named and see what Dr Opas has to say.

[Jeffr2]

It's as safe as all the others.  All vaccines have potential side effects.  All vaccines.

 

Sinovac has distributed some 260 million doses.  At least 100 have been administered.  If it wasn't safe, we'd know by now.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01146-0

[Pravda]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

It's as safe as all the others.  All vaccines have potential side effects.  All vaccines.

 

Sinovac has distributed some 260 million doses.  At least 100 have been administered.  If it wasn't safe, we'd know by now.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01146-0

 

OK you take it

[simon43]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

 

OK you take it

To play Devil's Advocate, how can it not be safe?  It is an inert virus, completely 'sterile'. It is the body's own immune system that is tricked into thinking it is a 'real' virus entering the body, and thus creating antibodies to fight that apparent pathogen.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

OK you take it

You know, I was convinced that Sinovac was overwhelmingly safe to take. But the argument you presented here has given me pause. Well done!

 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, 4005 said:

You should follow news from countries that use Sinovac. Uruguay just published some results. I am not sure whether they also examined the safety.

You should also read yesterdays Thai English-language newspaper that cannot be named and see what Dr Opas has to say.

Uruguay study of 862,000: Sinovac prevents 97% deaths

A new study of 862,000 recipients in Uruguay has found that the Sinovac vaccine is effective in reducing Covid-19 death by up to 97%. The study comes as early results are gathered from Uruguay’s vaccination campaign which has been 80% Sinovac vaccines. They found that for people who had already been fully vaccinated with 2 doses, infections were down 57% and severe cases requiring intensive care were reduced by 95%.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/uruguay-study-of-862000-sinovac-prevents-97-deaths

[Jeffr2]

18 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

OK you take it

If it was all I could get for the next 6 months, I would.  Same with the Russian jab.  They are both OK, even though clinical trial data wasn't released.

[Jeffr2]

17 hours ago, simon43 said:

To play Devil's Advocate, how can it not be safe?  It is an inert virus, completely 'sterile'. It is the body's own immune system that is tricked into thinking it is a 'real' virus entering the body, and thus creating antibodies to fight that apparent pathogen.

The Russian jab had a batch that contained a live virus.  It happens.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210428-brazil-says-russian-covid-vaccine-carried-live-cold-virus

[sirineou]

another one of these threads

. Why don't you just google "is Sinovac vaccine safe" ? Plenty of data and you can make up your own mind, instead of getting the dogs all excited with a jury Sinovac  piece of meat disguised as a question?

[clivebaxter]

Sister in law had it last week, all staff at the hi so house where she works were told they had to get it, all arranged for them. She had a sore arm and a bad headache which seems normal. Many are talking about people dying- they saw it on facebook, or their friends told them. My Mrs is paranoid about the virus but has now decided not to get vaccinated. You are probably a few million times more likely to get killed on the roads than from sinovac, but logic and reason have always been in short supply here.

Edited May 31, 2021 by clivebaxter

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, clivebaxter said:

Sister in law had it last week, all staff at the hi so house where she works were told they had to get it, all arranged for them. She had a sore arm and a bad headache which seems normal. Many are talking about people dying- they saw it on facebook, or their friends told them. My Mrs is paranoid about the virus but has now decided not to get vaccinated. You are probably a few million times more likely to get killed on the roads than from sinovac, but logic and reason have always been in short supply here.

Social media.  The scourge of modern times. LOL

[clivebaxter]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Social media.  The scourge of modern times. LOL

 

Sister in law was told not to mention getting the vax at all on social media

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Social media.  The scourge of modern times. LOL

And that is back to the point of the OP.

In a country where people were made to believe in zero Covid they now expect zero risk vaccines. How to convince them about risk assessment?

 

About 1.8 billion vaccinations have been done worldwide.

About 600 million in China.

Just think how many Facebook posts, Tweets and chain-letters about critical vaccination  incidents you can expect.

 

[rabas]

22 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Social media.  The scourge of modern times. LOL

 

29 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

Sister in law had it last week, all staff at the hi so house where she works were told they had to get it, all arranged for them. She had a sore arm and a bad headache which seems normal. Many are talking about people dying- they saw it on facebook, or their friends told them. My Mrs is paranoid about the virus but has now decided not to get vaccinated. You are probably a few million times more likely to get killed on the roads than from sinovac, but logic and reason have always been in short supply here.

 

It may be from the recent Thai news (and BP) report of a young Yala woman, 32, who died of blood clots in her lungs. She sought hospital help for chest pain shortly after vaccination and died a week later. A friend vaccinated at the same time suffered similar chest pain but was not hospitalized.  Thai TV news mentioned they had the same vaccine batch.

 

Granted though, it's hard to teach some people about probability. OTH, Thailand seems to have a high incidence of suspicious reactions like the 7 people , 6 in Rayong.  who suffered paralysis and were given anticoagulants. Again, from the same batch of Sinovac.

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

 

 

It may be from the recent Thai news (and BP) report of a young Yala woman, 32, who died of blood clots in her lungs. She sought hospital help for chest pain shortly after vaccination and died a week later. A friend vaccinated at the same time suffered similar chest pain but was not hospitalized.  Thai TV news mentioned they had the same vaccine batch.

 

Granted though, it's hard to teach some people about probability. OTH, Thailand seems to have a high incidence of suspicious reactions like the 7 people , 6 in Rayong.  who suffered paralysis and were given anticoagulants. Again, from the same batch of Sinovac.

These jabs are not risk free.  But we've got no choice.  Sadly...

[ogb]

 All the covid vaccines are experimental and none are risk free, therefore it should be a personal choice whether to take them.

 

Efficacy questions aside, at least Sinovac is produced via traditional/proven methods so in theory it should be less risky.

 

 

[Denim]

The prime minister set a fine example on this. He said he would get vaccinated but cancelled taking the sinovac jab.

He prefered to wait for AZ.

 

The OPs girlfriend has taken the hint and is following PM Prayuths example..

 

[Scott]

A post with false or misleading information has been reported and removed.

 

[thailand49]

It is like always rumors but you can set things right by leading by example?????

[Lacessit]

I have the same dilemma with my GF.

The education system in Thailand is so abysmal ( IMO deliberately kept that way ) most Thais don't understand basic statistics, or the concept of risk.

If the use of AZ vaccine in Europe prevents the established death rate of 2-4% in the elderly, and deaths from the vaccine itself are 0.0006%, it's a no-brainer for anyone with an education.

Similar statistics probably apply to Sinovac, although I will say for me it's a vaccine of last resort, if I can't get anything else. Rewarding the country that started the mess with their lies and obfuscation sticks in my craw. The CCP is still blocking any independent investigation of what really happened.

 

[BadBouy]

Her body, her decision! You gave her your opinion now back off.

[placeholder]

Mass vaccination creates healthy oasis in Brazilian city

Serrana, a city in southeastern Brazilian state of Sao Paulo, has seen a 95% drop in COVID-19 deaths after it concluded vaccination of almost all adults, TV Globo reported on Sunday.

With 45,000 inhabitants Serrana is a healthy oasis in Brazil, which has the world's second deadliest outbreak with more than 461,000 deaths so far and a very slow immunization pace due to the lack of vaccines.

Serrana was the subject of a study by Instituto Butantan, which produces the Coronavac vaccine developed by China's Sinovac Biotech (SVA.O) in Brazil.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mass-vaccination-creates-healthy-oasis-brazilian-city-2021-05-31/

 

The article goes on to say that when 75% of the population was vaccinated, the spread of the virus was halted. It doesn't say what percentage of the population already had been infected with covid.

[4MyEgo]

19 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

These jabs are not risk free.  But we've got no choice.  Sadly...

 

Really, I made a post here on alternatives and it appears to have been taken down, i.e. medicines that have treated similar viruses and were effective, but it was taken down, dare I mention them again ?

 

Ask yourself this, what are the Thai hospitals prescribing to those with Covid in the hospitals and then send them home once they have past the 14 days quarantine, bet you they aren't vaccinations, but we can't talk about alternatives because the drive is vaccines, don't talk about adverse effects or deaths when it comes to vaccines, freedom of speech has gone out the window.

 

Here are a list of other treatments current being used, why TVF doesn't allow me to speak freely when the evidence is there sucks.....we should be able to show other sides of the coin, isn't that what forums are about, discussions, information, to agree and to disagree ?

 

https://www.thailandmedical.news/articles/covid19-drugs

[habuspasha]

26 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Really, I made a post here on alternatives and it appears to have been taken down, i.e. medicines that have treated similar viruses and were effective, but it was taken down, dare I mention them again ?

 

Ask yourself this, what are the Thai hospitals prescribing to those with Covid in the hospitals and then send them home once they have past the 14 days quarantine, bet you they aren't vaccinations, but we can't talk about alternatives because the drive is vaccines, don't talk about adverse effects or deaths when it comes to vaccines, freedom of speech has gone out the window.

 

Here are a list of other treatments current being used, why TVF doesn't allow me to speak freely when the evidence is there sucks.....we should be able to show other sides of the coin, isn't that what forums are about, discussions, information, to agree and to disagree ?

 

https://www.thailandmedical.news/articles/covid19-drugs

All of these medications in Thai Medical News are for those who already have Covid, not for preventing infection.

[up-country_sinclair]

My MIL is scheduled to get it next week, but right now she's planning not to go and will wait to see what happens with others.

Seems crazy to me, but I'm staying out of it.

[gearbox]

On 5/29/2021 at 11:42 PM, Patong2021 said:

The safety of the Sinovac  aka Coronavac is unknown.   No one can say if it is safe or even what the likelihood of serious adverse reactions are because the Chinese have provided limited and unreliable information.

 

The Chinese have published now the adverse reactions stats of their immunization,  data from 260 million shots administered. They also quote the Mexican data, which shows nearly 10 times more adverse reactions with Pfizer shots, compared to Sinovac and Sinopharm.

 

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202105/1224769.shtml

 

Also Norway just concluded the study of the 155 deaths after Pfizer shots, and found the vaccine likely to be the cause for some of them, although the vaccine recipients were mostly very old people.

 

The bottom line is that with hundreds of millions of shots there is always some very small risk that a particular combination of genes, health condition, age, etc may not receive the vaccine well,  but statistically the chance is very,very low.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by gearbox

[SomchaiCNX]

22 hours ago, rabas said:

 

 

It may be from the recent Thai news (and BP) report of a young Yala woman, 32, who died of blood clots in her lungs. She sought hospital help for chest pain shortly after vaccination and died a week later. A friend vaccinated at the same time suffered similar chest pain but was not hospitalized.  Thai TV news mentioned they had the same vaccine batch.

 

Granted though, it's hard to teach some people about probability. OTH, Thailand seems to have a high incidence of suspicious reactions like the 7 people , 6 in Rayong.  who suffered paralysis and were given anticoagulants. Again, from the same batch of Sinovac.

It is called a long emboli or PE you can get that even without a vaccin.