Legal for employer to force workers to vaccinate?

[Trujillo]

A Thai friend of mine says that her boss has ordered all employees at his chain restaurant in a mall here in Chiang Mai to be vaccinated or else be docked 400 baht/week. 

I'm pretty sure this is illegal, but what say you? 

Who or what agency (including any links) should be contacted to report this behavior?

[OneMoreFarang]

Let's turn that around: Every restaurant owner and manager who allow unvaccinated people to work in a restaurant should be reported and their license should be removed.

[stevenl]

Why doe you think it is illegal?

[blackcab]

It is illegal to deduct money in this manner from employee's wages. A call to the Department of Labour Protection and Welfare Hotline on 1506 should quickly resolve the matter.

 

I should say, however, that an employer can terminate an employee at any time as long as the employee is paid the correct severance.

[RichardColeman]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

or else be docked 400 baht/week. 

100% I would guess. What next deducting 500 baht a week for not putting on medicated foot powder on athletes foot or something ? 

[Nojohndoe]

I doubt it  would be "legal" to force workers to be vaccinated but to dock payment in the absence of vaccination while allowing continuing employment could be readily identified as an illegal event.

If a business need to viably operate with only vaccinated employees present the circumstances are not the same.

[EricTh]

Why does your Thai 'friend' not want to be vaccinated? Any specific reasons?

 

The employer has no right to force employees to take the vaccine, it's entirely voluntary.

 

[robblok]

No employer should not force, just pay her the severance pay and let her go. Her choice.

 

I mean if you don't want to be vaccinated you have to accept that there are consequences.

 

In restaurants they want their employees vaccinated so there is a smaller chance they catch covid and having to pay them sick leave. 

 

I mean why should an employer take the risk. So if he pays here correct severance pay and lets her go he is within his rights just like she is is within her rights to not vaccinate.

 

Both should just do what they think is right both have options. 

[Bangkokhatter]

42 minutes ago, blackcab said:

It is illegal to deduct money in this manner from employee's wages. A call to the Department of Labour Protection and Welfare Hotline on 1506 should quickly resolve the matter.

 

I should say, however, that an employer can terminate an employee at any time as long as the employee is paid the correct severance.

The above is spot on.

 

We have a similar case at work where a HOD has stated all her staff should be vaccinated, however it  did not take HR long to put her straight, you cannot enforce the vaccination on anyone at work.

 

Only option is termination but proper procedures must be followed.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Bangkokhatter said:

The above is spot on.

 

We have a similar case at work where a HOD has stated all her staff should be vaccinated, however it  did not take HR long to put her straight, you cannot enforce the vaccination on anyone at work.

 

Only option is termination but proper procedures must be followed.

Indeed, as long as proper procedure is followed things are good.

 

I mean someone who is vaccinated has a smaller chance to get infected and seriously ill. Just think of an infected person infecting other employees and all the sick leave the employer has to pay. Its just a business decision.

 

Just like its a personal decision not to be vaccinated both have to accept there are consequences.

 

For the employer he has to pay serverance pay to get rid of her and for the employee they can keep their anti vax beliefs and lose their job.

 

If i had a factory or any kind of business with many employees and customers id want them to be vaccinated to limit my risk of losses. Not to force my beliefs on them but to make sure their beliefs dont cost me money.

[Trujillo]

"Why does your Thai 'friend' not want to be vaccinated? Any specific reasons?"

 

I didn't ask. But I can. 

The fact is, for whatever reason, she doesn't want to have it, and I believe that forcing a worker to take a drug against his or her wishing must be illegal. 

Am I wrong? 

 

By the way, what's with the single quotes around the word friend? It's not me, if that's what you are alluding to. And yes, as shocking as it might seem, Trujillo actually has a friend (who is not imaginary). 

[alyx]

According to this article https://aseannow.com/topic/1229007-thailand-eases-covid-19-restrictions-but-only-for-people-who-are-vaccinated/ ( see picture below) It seems that some owners may force the workers to get vaccinated ( although the latter, up till now, have not had the choice considering the availability of the vaccines). So, how that could be enforced remains a mystery. This being said , as mentioned above,....labour Department is your path

[Captain Monday]

Of course it is legal. They will be fired and proper severances paid.

[OneMoreFarang]

I read that in other countries employers give the employees the following options:

a) get vaccinated

b) show regular tests that you are not infected with Covid.

 

The regular tests obviously cost money. If the employer organizes these test and pays for these test then it seems, at least in other countries, that the employer wants his expenses back from the employee. Because if the employee would be vaccinated then these regular cost wouldn't be necessary.

 

I think that makes sense. I don't know if it is legal in Thailand.

An alternative might be that the employer demands to see regular negative Covid test results and the employee has to pay for those test.

 

All in all I think it is absolutely reasonable that the owner and managers from shops and restaurants want to make sure Covid is not easily transmitted in their shops. And to be able to guarantee that to their customers they have to make sure their employees follow a) or b) from above. I would expect that from any decent restaurant.

[mikebike]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I read that in other countries employers give the employees the following options:

a) get vaccinated

b) show regular tests that you are not infected with Covid.

In the USA that has changed in just the last week. With the full FDA approval of Pfizer vax, some major employers are now requiring vax with threat of $200/month health-care surcharge.

[bluebluewater]

At the very least she needs a spanking . . . . 

[robblok]

12 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"Why does your Thai 'friend' not want to be vaccinated? Any specific reasons?"

 

I didn't ask. But I can. 

The fact is, for whatever reason, she doesn't want to have it, and I believe that forcing a worker to take a drug against his or her wishing must be illegal. 

Am I wrong? 

 

By the way, what's with the single quotes around the word friend? It's not me, if that's what you are alluding to. And yes, as shocking as it might seem, Trujillo actually has a friend (who is not imaginary). 

Not wrong but as you have read she can be fired. Just ask your friend what is more important his or her job or being antivax. I would know what i would say in times like this.

[donmuang37]

17 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's turn that around: Every restaurant owner and manager who allow unvaccinated people to work in a restaurant should be reported and their license should be removed.

Spot on - fully agree!

[marin]

Starting September 1st if you have a restaurant and want to open and serve in the restaurant your employees have to have two Covid injections. Seems straight forward and a step in the right direction to me. To go in and eat the customer must have two as well. 

[MrJ2U]

Get vaccinated or Don't work amongst the public.

 

Maybe your friend can get a stripper job online where she cant mingle with the public.

 

Whats her excuse?

Stupidity?

[JimGant]

34 minutes ago, marin said:

Starting September 1st if you have a restaurant and want to open and serve in the restaurant your employees have to have two Covid injections. Seems straight forward and a step in the right direction to me. To go in and eat the customer must have two as well. 

Sadly, not everyone (nor most) can avail themselves to two jabs of vaccines. But, yes, once (like now in the US) two jabs are readily available, it should be the Thai gov't that mandates innoculations, just like they have in the past:

 

Quote

Different countries vary in terms of which vaccines are required for young children. For example, the vaccine for tuberculosis (TB), known as BCG (Bacillus Calmette and Guerin), is not widely used in the USA, while it is a mandatory vaccine in Thailand. Also, most Asian countries, including Thailand, make vaccination against Japanese Encephalitis (a viral disease carried by mosquitoes) obligatory,

I'm sure there was some, but probably little, discussion years ago about mandatory innoculations against polio here Thailand, as the obvious benefit was so overwhelming. Why such a knock down, drag out about covid jabs......?

[canthai55]

The vaccine only benefits the person getting it.

It does not protect people they come in contact with.

So all this "vaccinated staff" is a complete waste of time.

The staff can STILL give covid to customers, and vice versa.

 

[kingstonkid]

17 hours ago, EricTh said:

Why does your Thai 'friend' not want to be vaccinated? Any specific reasons?

 

The employer has no right to force employees to take the vaccine, it's entirely voluntary.

 

However, for the employer to open they can only have vaccinated staff working.  Government law

 

Sure the employee can say that they do not want to be vaccinated and due to the present situation and rules that the restaurant has to abide by she would not be able to work.

 

Not sure of anyone else but if an employee is not able to work and is considered a health hazard by the government if I bring her then I would giver her or him a choice if they were a great worker.

1. go no pay until the government says they are alright to come back to work, or

2. Bye bye here's your severance and have a nice day.

 

The only reason I would give them a choice is that in my business I have to train a replacement.

 

As to a restaurant I think it would be BYE BYE immediately there are a lot of people that I can hire that were working at other restaurants that are looking for work and willing to do what they have to to get a job.

 

 

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, robblok said:

No employer should not force, just pay her the severance pay and let her go. Her choice.

 

I mean if you don't want to be vaccinated you have to accept that there are consequences.

 

In restaurants they want their employees vaccinated so there is a smaller chance they catch covid and having to pay them sick leave. 

 

I mean why should an employer take the risk. So if he pays here correct severance pay and lets her go he is within his rights just like she is is within her rights to not vaccinate.

 

Both should just do what they think is right both have options. 

It's also possible the owner is trying to prevent a situation where a customer catches Covid 19 from an employee. If that happened the restaurant:

 

- Would possibly suffer a penalty such as closure for 14 days & fines,

- And an ongoing 'image' of being a place where people catch the Covid 19 virus.

 

Hence owner taking an approach / a strategy to try to prevent both items above. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by scorecard

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

The vaccine only benefits the person getting it.

It does not protect people they come in contact with.

So all this "vaccinated staff" is a complete waste of time.

The staff can STILL give covid to customers, and vice versa.

 

The vaccines will lower the amount of virus circulating because it lowers the severity of infection in the vaccinated.  The vaccinated individuals recover faster and therefor are spreading the virus for a shorter amount of time.

[jackdd]

18 hours ago, Trujillo said:

The fact is, for whatever reason, she doesn't want to have it, and I believe that forcing a worker to take a drug against his or her wishing must be illegal. 

Am I wrong? 

The employer isn't really "forcing" her, is he? He just says that if she doesn't get vaccinated she will get less salary.

Deducting money for not being vaccinated is probably against the law, so she could probably fight this.

But the consequence will be that she will just be fired if she doesn't get vaccinated, and this is legal.

So how important is the job for her?

[newnative]

18 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"Why does your Thai 'friend' not want to be vaccinated? Any specific reasons?"

 

I didn't ask. But I can. 

The fact is, for whatever reason, she doesn't want to have it, and I believe that forcing a worker to take a drug against his or her wishing must be illegal. 

Am I wrong? 

 

By the way, what's with the single quotes around the word friend? It's not me, if that's what you are alluding to. And yes, as shocking as it might seem, Trujillo actually has a friend (who is not imaginary). 

      A hospital in Texas fired all its workers who refused to be vaccinated.  One of the fired workers sued but lost her case.  I think she has appealed to a higher court; I haven't heard of an outcome to that appeal.  I support an employer's right to fire a worker who will not be vaccinated, unless the worker has a medical condition that precludes being vaccinated.  

[Joinaman]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's turn that around: Every restaurant owner and manager who allow unvaccinated people to work in a restaurant should be reported and their license should be removed.

and any restaurant that if found to be infected with covid should also have its licence removed and fined, for allowing their staff to transmit this deadly virus 

 

[orchidfan]

16 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I read that in other countries employers give the employees the following options:

a) get vaccinated

b) show regular tests that you are not infected with Covid.

 

The regular tests obviously cost money. If the employer organizes these test and pays for these test then it seems, at least in other countries, that the employer wants his expenses back from the employee. Because if the employee would be vaccinated then these regular cost wouldn't be necessary.

 

I think that makes sense. I don't know if it is legal in Thailand.

An alternative might be that the employer demands to see regular negative Covid test results and the employee has to pay for those test.

 

All in all I think it is absolutely reasonable that the owner and managers from shops and restaurants want to make sure Covid is not easily transmitted in their shops. And to be able to guarantee that to their customers they have to make sure their employees follow a) or b) from above. I would expect that from any decent restaurant.

As I've mentioned in other threads, my wife working in Hong Kong as a chef had to have initially regular PCR tests, then it went to full vaccination (which she did with Pfizer, quick and free) or bye bye.

This applies to all staff, cooking or serving. 

Not exactly forcing her (or them) but the choice was theirs. 

Not a hard choice !

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

The vaccines will lower the amount of virus circulating because it lowers the severity of infection in the vaccinated.  The vaccinated individuals recover faster and therefor are spreading the virus for a shorter amount of time.

The amount - no

The severity - yes

The vaccine does not kill covid - so people can still spread it, people can still catch it.

How hard is this to understand ? For some people it seems very hard