What about us? Furious retirees/expats in Thailand slam proposals to attract wealthy foreigners

[Old Croc]

3 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

It's a reasonable comparison. In both examples they are looking for new suckers, not the ones that have been sucked dry.

Disagree.

The banks hold and use your forced savings for profit, and like all banks world-wide no longer give interest worth mentioning, but they don't suck you dry. You can take back what belongs to you at any time and they will be the ones hurting when you lodge it with a competitor.

In my case I would reap a handy profit on 800k, if I were to repatriate it, because of very favorable exchange rates at time of lodgment.

What I will never get back is all the money I have spent over 11 years enriching many businesses and individuals in Thailand. I continue to keep people in full time employment on my current property while another house is being used by covid refugees rent free. 

I would probably qualify for these new visas if my contributions over the years were taken into consideration.  Not every expat is living on a basic pension. 

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Boarn said:

I've tried Cambodia (Chinese ruined ), I've tried Laos (didn't like it and Chinese ruined it), I've tried the Philippines, (some things better, most worse), I don't like Vietnam.... WHERE CAN I GO, HELP ME!!!

India, if you are not a sex addict, better food and friendlier people.  

[BobinBKK]

38 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Curious why you'd go on holiday to the Philippines, the beaches perhaps, or the food?

 

A fews reasons...

1) The beaches

2) I had never been there before

3) My hotel and airfare were free (as most of my travel is)

[spidermike007]

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. I believe at this point, that if Brittany Spears were to declare her candidacy, she would beat Prayuth, hands down. That is how much he and the army are despised, at this point.

 

Tens of thousands of ex-pats have already left. Enough already. They have gotten sick of the constant nonsense here, and left. Immigration is like a moving target. It appears increasingly more obvious that the authorities do not want us here, and the level of toxicity on the part of immigration, and the government is annoying. Also, this administration is ridiculously incompetent and incapable of improving anything. They are the very definition of regressive. So, they want to get rid of most of us, and substitute us for wealthy ex-pats. It is not going to work. Why? We will defy them and stay. And the wealthy ex-pats will not come within a 1000 km. of Thailand for over a dozen very good reasons. They are just dreaming. They still think Thailand is the (COTKU) center of the known universe. They could not possibly be farther off the mark. 

[ThailandRyan]

30 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Same rung as whom?

 

What BS, do you really think a retired 70-year old taxi driver that comes here and marries a peasant girl half his age should get citizenship? 

 

Can't you see that Thailand has a unique situation here with the sexpats and has to have rules like no land to protect the country. 

 

Maybe should get together in our Chang singlets and protest.

 

 

 

 

Why do you think that most who come here to retire are sexpats, that is another issue you always bring up, the same with paying taxes and such other items like a work permit and such.  Many of us have brought in many of millions and purchased homes be it a condo, or building a house on land that we can not own but our Thai partner can, and even buying cars as well as paying for our children's education.  However, you seem to forget that there is a tax treaty for many of us, and even though retired here many married a normal lady and they may have lived in the US, the EU and the UK or Australia and New Zealand prior to returning here to hang up the boots and enjoy life.  Many Thais who married Americans gain permanent residency on arriving on a visa based upon marriage or upon getting married in the US and doing the paperwork to convert the fiancé visa. Once a permanent resident in the US those Thais and other nationalities, can buy land, own homes, purchase businesses and even work without needing a work permit or jumping through  hoops every 90 days or doing an annual extension of stay.  Sure I have no problems jumping through the hoops here, but you seem to think that your situation is available to all, and unfortunately it is not.  Surely a couple married for many years should have the same ability for the foreign spouse to become a permanent resident based upon retirement here.  The fact it is not available and then this new grand plan the government has hatched shows a true inequality to those already here versus this Government trying to lure in new money.  One day they may look inward, but my bet is it will never happen.  You forget all this unfortunately or you just don't care and think all are in the same boat as you, wrong view my friend, wrong view.

Edited September 15, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[guzzi850m2]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

Meanwhile in Bali.....

 

https://www.traveloffpath.com/indonesian-minister-backpackers-are-not-welcome-in-bali-upon-reopening/

Quote: Coordinating Maritime Affairs and Investment Minister Luhut Pandjaitan “We will filter tourists that come visit. We don’t want backpackers to come so that Bali remains clean, where the people who come are of quality.”

 

That's not a very nice statement to make to say the least, backpackers are not quality? Well many of them are on university and takes a 1 year sabbatical and may eventually become wealthy.  

 

So they all want rich tourists and expats.

 

Keep on dreaming.

 

There are not many really rich expats in Thailand expect the ones that got their wealth from illegal business back home.

 

[Boarn]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

India, if you are not a sex addict, better food and friendlier people.  

Bit old fashioned on the India front I'm afraid. My grandfather was a PIO having been born in Ooty, sadly India is now Indian, couldn't live there, too fond of the history, although yes I agree better food and the people are generally very friendly. 

[Boomer6969]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I looked into OZ citizenship when I was younger but it was much harder than in Thailand, unless I married a local. 

When was that? Getting Australian citizenship in 1985 was less paperwork than getting a one year visa extension fro marriage here. The only requirement was 3 years of residence and a decent command of English. A few years later they made it even easier with two years of residence and the language requirement was that one member of the family unit could fill out some forms.

 

Australia has always done a great job at selecting its immigrants, helping them to integrate, hence turning the naturalisation into a mere formality at the end of the process. 

 

God bless Down under, the Land of plenty..

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Tens of thousands of ex-pats have already left.

And millions are wanting to come or stay. 

 

I wonder where they left to; they would be mad if they wanted to leave for the UK or US. Thailand is much better. They certainly couldn't find a country as good with as easy terms to live here as a retiree. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Neeranam

[MajorTom]

I never understood the comparing Thailand to USA or Australia part. The benefits gained by immigrating to western countries must be protected by a very high threshold.

Thailand for example, has nothing to offer and should be very easy.

 

I have rather large chips on my shoulders. In my opinion Thailand should throw all sorts of property ownership, residency, citizenship at me just for bothering to spend my money here ????

[simon43]

[quote]

... I've tried Laos (didn't like it and Chinese ruined it), 

[/quote]

 

 

What Chinese?  I live in Luang Prabang and the only Chinese that I see are at the small Chinse market on the edge of town..

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

When was that? Getting Australian citizenship in 1985 was less paperwork than getting a one year visa extension fro marriage here. The only requirement was 3 years of residence and a decent command of English. A few years later they made it even easier with two years of residence and the language requirement was that one member of the family unit could fill out some forms.

It was around 1994. 

 

If I had been a couple of years younger(under 27), it would have been easier. 

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Disagree.

The banks hold and use your forced savings for profit, and like all banks world-wide no longer give interest worth mentioning, but they don't suck you dry. You can take back what belongs to you at any time and they will be the ones hurting when you lodge it with a competitor.

In my case I would reap a handy profit on 800k, if I were to repatriate it, because of very favorable exchange rates at time of lodgment.

What I will never get back is all the money I have spent over 11 years enriching many businesses and individuals in Thailand. I continue to keep people in full time employment on my current property while another house is being used by covid refugees rent free. 

I would probably qualify for these new visas if my contributions over the years were taken into consideration.  Not every expat is living on a basic pension. 

For heaven's sake, most reasonable people will understand that it was a simple metaphor not a complete analogy- the basic point is that they care more about attracting new customers, rather than looking after old ones. I thought it was very good.

[Old Croc]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

India, if you are not a sex addict, better food and friendlier people.  

There are other considerations. When the food disagrees, it's hard to find a friend with a toilet!

 

"Some 70 percent of households in India don't have access to toilets",

[ikke1959]

everything looks like we are living in the 19th century... Falangs/foreigners /aliens or whatever we are named.. we are rich but in the 21st century we are not rich enough and we have to have more money to spend and live here for more priviliges...It is sad, that if the ones with their money arte falling into this trap, because they change everything in a minute and before you know, nothing changed.. Look at the Elite Visa.. it is not working and why?? very easy just old fashioned immigration laws... Look at the problems with the vaccinatyions for foreigners.... It shows you are not treated as a habitant of this country, no not even a guests... It is very sad what the Government is doing.. I don't talk about the normal people.. mostly they are good and friendly

[Boarn]

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

[quote]

... I've tried Laos (didn't like it and Chinese ruined it), 

[/quote]

 

 

What Chinese?  I live in Luang Prabang and the only Chinese that I see are at the small Chinse market on the edge of town..

The Chinese infrastructure, highways etc are in plain sight.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Boarn

[Johnny Mac]

1 hour ago, Whale said:

All this time here was I thinking I was second class "citizen" in Thailand. Now I realise I am third.

 

Wife left me years ago, kids grown and off abroad. Next one to leave is me. Enough is enough.

 

Its Cyprus or Greece for me.

Sounds good to me. Don't see your days out in this dump. Would much rather be in the med than here.

[Old Croc]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

It was around 1994. 

 

If I had been a couple of years younger(under 27), it would have been easier. 

You have to get PR first, that's the hard part. Citizenship is easy after the qualification period.

[Johnny Mac]

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I live in Luang Prabang 

Do you? You have never mentioned that before.

[spidermike007]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

And millions are wanting to come or stay. 

 

I wonder where they left to; they would be mad if they wanted to leave for the UK or US. Thailand is much better. They certainly couldn't find a country as good with as easy terms to live here as a retiree. 

 

 

 

 

I would guess that 80% of all ex-pats, if you did a survey, would say the standard of living here, is amongst the top two or three reasons they are here. Without the affordability factor, Thailand offers a very limited amount of appeal for ex-pats. I do like most Thai people. And the food. 

 

Not much in the way of culture though. And if you consider the air, the poor quality of the water, the traffic hazards, and the govt., well I could go on. If I were wealthy enough, I would choose to be here no more than 2-3 months of each year. There are countless spots that would be very appealing as a traveling nomad. Croatia, Turkey, Spain, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Sardinia, and many other spots. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by spidermike007

[VocalNeal]

To quote Flavio Briatore : "I am rich. I know what rich people want" 

I wonder about the people at TAT 

[Eric Loh]

29 minutes ago, Misty said:

Hopefully you're correct. However, some have been watching the current gyrations going on with Malaysia's "My Second Home" (MM2H) program.  Reportedly after Malaysia hired KPMG as advisor, the gov't announced a plan to change the MM2H program by increasing the requirements. substantially.  Not surprisingly, there was a huge expat outcry by those who'd purchased homes and made a life in Malaysia, and the changes have been at least temporarily put on ice.

 

But it's been suggested that Thailand may be trying to do something similar with its McKinsey & Co advised "wealthy expat" program, albeit in stages.  At least the Thai program seems so poorly thought out there will be few takers. Still, that's not much comfort if the ultimate intent is similar to Malaysia's.

 

 

 

The Malaysia MM2H new policies are really draconian with the quadruple increase of the monthly requirement, rising the fixed deposit requirement by a whopping 567% and rising the liquid asset by 329%. Idiotic proposals that deserving got a backlash. It’s put on hold till Dec 22. Fewer than 1 in 20 current visa holders would be able to meet the new requirements. 
 

The Thai proposals are actually different from the Malaysian as it aim to attract and entice new wealthy foreigners and not targeted at current visa holder foreigners of which most staying here. So I don’t understand the outcry. However I do sympathize with then on the fact that things can change on a dime here. 
 

 

[Bkk Brian]

56 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No your point was clear: "Don't all countries try to attract the richest tourists?"

@Kadilo you keep following my posts with confusion, if you've got something to say say it, of you didn't understand my post ask me and I will clarify.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, MajorTom said:

I have rather large chips on my shoulders. In my opinion Thailand should throw all sorts of property ownership, residency, citizenship at me just for bothering to spend my money here ????

I spend 8,400 baht a month in the local expat bar, keeping 13 Thais in a job. 

I bought my father-in-law a new motorsai. 

I can say a few words in Thai, after living here for 18 years -  "sanook, poom pui, boom boom",even though my wife doesn't want me to learn.  I hope to be able to say the word for "glass" soon.

My wife's cousin is a high-ranking policeman in Amnat Charoen, who helps the kids cross the road from school every day.

My wife left school at 13 and still managed to become a cashier in the Pink Pussy.

My step-son refuses to wai me and calls me "mun" but I am a good farang and wai the local 7/11 staff every day, and the guy who clears up the plastic bottles in the neighbourhood.

Why can't I get citizenship, or at least PR? 

 

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

You have to get PR first, that's the hard part. Citizenship is easy after the qualification period.

Yeah, I know, my sister got it. 

[Dogmatix]

What about us?

 

The answer to this question will be revealed in a later announcement of plans to raise financial hurdles on visas to remove a million unwanted foreigners to make room for the wealthy new arrivals who will start coming in droves to drop cash all over the Kingdom like money trees.  They may even be encouraged to adopt Thai families of those flushed out, so they can spend even more money.  

Edited September 15, 2021 by Dogmatix

[itsari]

It is not the rich  that Thailand should try to attract it is the young innovative minds where ever they may come from  that can create wealth for all . 

[Johnny Mac]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I would guess that 80% of all ex-pats, if you did a survey, would say the standard of living here, is amongst the top two or three reasons they are here. Without the affordability factor, Thailand offers a very limited amount of appeal for ex-pats. I do like most Thai people. And the food. 

 

Not much in the way of culture though. And if you consider the air, the poor quality of the water, the traffic hazards, and the govt., well I could go on. If I were wealthy enough, I would choose to be here no more than 2-3 months of each year. There are countless spots that would be very appealing as a traveling nomad. Croatia, Turkey, Spain, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Sardinia, and many other spots. 

Interesting you mention Croatia first, never been but it looks appealing for all sorts of reasons. Any opinions on Zagreb/Split/Dubrovnik?

[mommysboy]

The truest thing said to me when I first came here went along the lines of: you are always a tourist!

 

That's the way you are seen and the way you are treated, ie, permanence isn't on offer. Even if you have residence it won't count for much in the end.

 

And the wisest thing said to me recently: if you try to enjoy the present, the future will likely be the same.

 

Also, we left farangiland for a reason didn't we?

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Not much in the way of culture though. And if you consider the air, the poor quality of the water, the traffic hazards, and the govt., well I could go on. If I were wealthy enough, I would choose to be here no more than 2-3 months of each year. There are countless spots that would be very appealing as a traveling nomad. Croatia, Turkey, Spain, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Sardinia, and many other spots. 

I agree, but the cost and weather make up for that. 

I plan to retire in the UK for the summer, and other countries around the world, staying here for about 4 months per year. 

 The bitter people in the OP probably don't have the funds to move around and yet feel entitled to longer visas or citizens' rights.