Expat on Samui says he was threatened with deportation by hospital over Covid bill

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I am currently contesting a refusal of cover with an insurer. 

 

They have used unfamiliar medical terminally masked in small print to deny a claim of a condition which cannot be classified as symptomatic or a reoccurring event, which also falls outside of a 24 months since treatment clause. 

 

 

I have since moved my whole family away from this Insurance Company - I believe they have unfairly used 'complex legal jargon’ which cannot be readily understood by the ‘layman’ to wiggle out of a payment for treatment. 

 

My case is not ‘water tight’, but I am claiming their contract which is to be signed by the layman (myself) was not clear in its terms and conditions and that my condition was not symptomatic, is not clearly outlined in the contract.

 

 

Additionally: The insurance Company Pre-Approved treatment, which I received at Bumrungrad, then reversed there decision leaving me with an extremely hefty bill - Ad the pre-approval been rejected, I could have fought the process then and if failed, I could have sought attention at a cheaper medical facility instead of being sent a large bill by Bumrungrad for treatment which the insurance has since refused to pay for. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I wonder what a certain poster who used to work in Insurance would have to say about that.

[mommysboy]

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, insurers do not try to avoid paying out on legitimate claims, neither do they use legal jargon to deny claims.  Unless you can give an example, of course. 

Perhaps your experience was gleaned in Blighty.  Thailand is a different ball game.

[NoshowJones]

42 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Thanks, I wonder what a certain poster who used to work in Insurance would have to say about that.

 

43 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Thanks, I wonder what a certain poster who used to work in Insurance would have to say about that.

I see he has not came back on to answer.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, insurers do not try to avoid paying out on legitimate claims, neither do they use legal jargon to deny claims.  Unless you can give an example, of course. 

Perhaps your experience was gleaned in Blighty.  Thailand is a different ball game.

My experience is in Thailand and the UK. 

Is it different?  Perhaps you've gleaned an example (that isn't urban myth or hearsay) to support your assertion?

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Obviously, they're not bothering about if you've got nothing to back up your claims with.  Insurers do not try to avoid paying out on legitimate claims, neither do they use legal jargon to deny legitimate claims. If they did, there'd soon be no insurance industry.

Expand  

I say you are wrong.

Expand  

Well, that's your opinion and, clearly, you have nothing to back it up.   What I posted is not opinion, it is fact; insurers do not try to deny legitimate claims.

Expand  

I am currently contesting a refusal of cover with an insurer. 

 

They have used unfamiliar medical terminally masked in small print to deny a claim of a condition which cannot be classified as symptomatic or a reoccurring event, which also falls outside of a 24 months since treatment clause. 

 

 

I have since moved my whole family away from this Insurance Company - I believe they have unfairly used 'complex legal jargon’ which cannot be readily understood by the ‘layman’ to wiggle out of a payment for treatment. 

 

My case is not ‘water tight’, but I am claiming their contract which is to be signed by the layman (myself) was not clear in its terms and conditions and that my condition was not symptomatic, is not clearly outlined in the contract.

 

 

Additionally: The insurance Company Pre-Approved treatment, which I received at Bumrungrad, then reversed there decision leaving me with an extremely hefty bill - Ad the pre-approval been rejected, I could have fought the process then and if failed, I could have sought attention at a cheaper medical facility instead of being sent a large bill by Bumrungrad for treatment which the insurance has since refused to pay for. 

I hope it works out in your favour even though you say your claim is not "water tight". 

 

"They have used unfamiliar medical terminally masked in small print to deny a claim..."

That suggests that the policy conditions excluded your claim for cover.   What was the "complex legal jargon" that a layman could not understand?    Obviously, I'm not suggesting that you post any personal/medical information here but I'd be interested to see the "complex legal jargon" that is hard to interpret.  

 

"The insurance Company Pre-Approved treatment, which I received at Bumrungrad, then reversed there decision leaving me with an extremely hefty bill"

All you have to do is produce their written confirmation that your treatment was to be covered, surely?

 

Good luck with the claim.

[JimmyJ]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I am currently contesting a refusal of cover with an insurer. 

 

They have used unfamiliar medical terminally masked in small print to deny a claim of a condition which cannot be classified as symptomatic or a reoccurring event, which also falls outside of a 24 months since treatment clause. 

 

 

I have since moved my whole family away from this Insurance Company - I believe they have unfairly used 'complex legal jargon’ which cannot be readily understood by the ‘layman’ to wiggle out of a payment for treatment. 

 

My case is not ‘water tight’, but I am claiming their contract which is to be signed by the layman (myself) was not clear in its terms and conditions and that my condition was not symptomatic, is not clearly outlined in the contract.

 

 

Additionally: The insurance Company Pre-Approved treatment, which I received at Bumrungrad, then reversed there decision leaving me with an extremely hefty bill - Ad the pre-approval been rejected, I could have fought the process then and if failed, I could have sought attention at a cheaper medical facility instead of being sent a large bill by Bumrungrad for treatment which the insurance has since refused to pay for. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the insurer is called...?

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I hope it works out in your favour even though you say your claim is not "water tight". 

 

"They have used unfamiliar medical terminally masked in small print to deny a claim..."

That suggests that the policy conditions excluded your claim for cover.   What was the "complex legal jargon" that a layman could not understand?    Obviously, I'm not suggesting that you post any personal/medical information here but I'd be interested to see the "complex legal jargon" that is hard to interpret.  

 

"The insurance Company Pre-Approved treatment, which I received at Bumrungrad, then reversed there decision leaving me with an extremely hefty bill"

All you have to do is produce their written confirmation that your treatment was to be covered, surely?

 

Good luck with the claim.

 

I’ve PM’d you... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

And the insurer is called...?

April

[Tropicalevo]

34 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

April

I am with them.

Did you have the world-wide insurance or the Thai ex-pat one?

I have used them for a few years and no issues (yet)! The Thai branch are much more helpful than the ones back in France.

Mind you, I saw some disgusting 'bill padding' when I had a prostate biopsy carried out by Bumrungrad up in Bangkok.

I always tell hospitals that I do not have insurance so that I get local expat rates. At Bumrungrad I let slip about the insurance. Bill went from 80,000 baht to 140,000 baht.

No wonder premiums are so high.

[JimmyJ]

8 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

I am with them.

I am also with April.

 

"Did you have the world-wide insurance or the Thai ex-pat one?"

 

Tropicalevo beat me to it - that is the question I instantly thought of when I saw "April",

 

I have the world wide out of Paris.

 

 

"I have used them for a few years and no issues (yet)!"

 

Same here, but in my case I chose 'Inpatient Only" and have yet to make a claim.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by JimmyJ

[PoorSucker]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:43 AM, hioctane said:

All the more reason you should have travel insurance especially in this environment. Self insuring simply isn’t an option anymore.

Most travel insurance are void because governments does not recommend travel to Thailand. 

I got a special covid insurance when I arrived here 10 days ago.

[sallecc]

1 hour ago, PoorSucker said:

Most travel insurance are void because governments does not recommend travel to Thailand. 

I got a special covid insurance when I arrived here 10 days ago.

If you don't mind telling us which insurance you bought and what exactly is it covering regarding Covid? Thanks...

 

I'm looking to buy one, especially after reading this thread, the one which covers asymptomatic positive case, and any hospital / field hospital / hospitEl stay, and all medical charges due to Covid...

 

 

[PoorSucker]

2 hours ago, sallecc said:

If you don't mind telling us which insurance you bought and what exactly is it covering regarding Covid? Thanks..

https://www.gouda.dk/erhverv/nyheder/coronavirus

[robsamui]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:59 AM, rbkk said:

The wife got me a Dhipaya Insurance Covid-19 policy, top one, 800 baht. Seems I might be better off catching Covid-19 and claiming costs (Up to 100,000 baht) than not having Covid-19 and getting stitched with a Quarantine 'Hospitel' bill. The small print of the policy is all in Thai so not too sure where I stand re:'Hospitels.' 

HA! I used to have that same policy. After the first year they have suddenly stopped issuing it, and changed it drastically. Now it costs over 2,000B to get the same cover. The equivalent to the one you have now costs 1,194B and the payouts have dropped right down to 50,000B for in-patient treatment.

Looks like the underwriters didn't have the ability to imagine the results of a pandemic. You better start shopping around for a new policy!

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by robsamui

[rbkk]

3 hours ago, robsamui said:

HA! I used to have that same policy. After the first year they have suddenly stopped issuing it, and changed it drastically. Now it costs over 2,000B to get the same cover. The equivalent to the one you have now costs 1,194B and the payouts have dropped right down to 50,000B for in-patient treatment.

Looks like the underwriters didn't have the ability to imagine the results of a pandemic. You better start shopping around for a new policy!

 

That seems very odd when you can still buy what looks like my original policy for 850 baht/100,000/1,000,000 on their website. Are you talking about the same company?

https://www.dhipaya.co.th/product-detail-10-37-12.html

[sallecc]

19 hours ago, rbkk said:

That seems very odd when you can still buy what looks like my original policy for 850 baht/100,000/1,000,000 on their website. Are you talking about the same company?

https://www.dhipaya.co.th/product-detail-10-37-12.html

Hi rbkk, did you buy directly from them, or via agent? They don't have English information, and chat is not working... I'll try to send them an email...

[rbkk]

2 hours ago, sallecc said:

Hi rbkk, did you buy directly from them, or via agent? They don't have English information, and chat is not working... I'll try to send them an email...

My wife bought it through an agent on 17th April 2021. Perhaps the link is out of date? Why is the link still active?

Here it is. It's it Thai (16 pages) and I've hidden personal info.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MExIPtfL-NtGeY1wwQ_54X7RYzL1qyyv/view?usp=sharing

Edited September 27, 2021 by rbkk

[dirtybirty]

On 9/22/2021 at 3:06 AM, HeijoshinCool said:

.

 

It is actually against international law and in violation of several treaties, for a private entity or business to confiscate one's passport.....

 

Mighty fine negotiating point.

 

 

 

.

This is true, even by the police in thailand. As a uk passport holder only a uk official can take my passport.  As I was told years ago by a uk embassy official in thailand the onus is on you not to give it to them ie even to look at. Keep it in your hand and show them, if they snatch it out if your hand yes its illegal. But your in thailand so good luck on proving it. Hence always good to have a thai goverment form of id e.g thai driving licence , it proves who you are and has your passport no on it and the new 1s have your registered address 

[Spock]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:39 PM, gearbox said:

How do you know the field hospitals are free for foreigners? Can you choose to stay in a field hospital?

I asked these questions before and never got a definitive answer.

Can tourists go to the field hospitals? Who is eligible?

[Tropicalevo]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Can tourists go to the field hospitals? Who is eligible?

Things have changed quite a bit since September.

I have some guests who have tested positive for Covid and are asymptomatic, or have mild symptoms.

They are in quarantine in private villas that they had booked.

I also know that in December, other guests were transferred to hospitels (field hospitals?).

All of these guests are foreign tourists.

I suspect that it all depends on the seriousness of any symptoms.

The villas do not have any medical staff but visits by doctors/nurses are available (for a price).

I do not know what medical staff are available at hospitels, or even if they are still being used this month.

Hospitels on the island are resorts that are converted to cater for Covid patients. Usually, no outside guests allowed. I think that there were only one or two - not a 100% sure.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:50 AM, cyril sneer said:

getting deported and not paying might have been a better option

I agree. Just get deported, then come back later, if he wants to. After all, he "couldn't" pay, but didn't break immigration laws, so returning would probably not have been a problem, as I doubt they'd 'ban' him. Better to use the 'saved' money for flight tickets.

Edited January 15, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[StayinThailand2much]

On 9/24/2021 at 1:36 PM, mommysboy said:

Perhaps your experience was gleaned in Blighty.  Thailand is a different ball game.

That would imply professionalism in the local insurance industry, as well as consumer rights. Do people, esp. foreigners, have such in Thailand, by law, and practically?

Edited January 15, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[JimmyJ]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:43 AM, hioctane said:

All the more reason you should have travel insurance especially in this environment. Self insuring simply isn’t an option anymore.

Nor is the concept of

"If I have a medical issue I will just hop on a plane and fly home where I have national insurance."

 

 

[BusyB]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:04 AM, mommysboy said:

I think he was facing financial hardship following the collapse of his business. Field hospital was a perfectly acceptable option.  I imagine he found himself trapped at that hospital and under law he couldn't be moved anywhere else.

 

Yes his argument is primarily with the government and imo he was a bit weak to cave in to strong arm tactics, as he will now never see that money again.

 

Insurance is only an option if you can afford it.  It's the first thing that has to go when you're fighting to keep food on the table. Your life may be relatively sweet, but not so for others perhaps.

 

As to planning, sure it's a good idea if you can afford it, but I refer to boxing wisdom from Mike Tyson : 'Sure, I had a plan but then I got punched in the face.' It's the things you don't see coming he was trying to say I reckon.

Without taking sides in a situation to which I'm not party, it strikes me that if the guy can come up with 60k for the final bill, he should have been able to fund 800 insurance. With Covid spreading like wildfire in Thailand it would have been the best bet by far.

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, BusyB said:

Without taking sides in a situation to which I'm not party, it strikes me that if the guy can come up with 60k for the final bill, he should have been able to fund 800 insurance. With Covid spreading like wildfire in Thailand it would have been the best bet by far.

Is this the covid insurance that insurers are refusing to pay out because of too many claims, they are instead claiming bankruptcy ???? 

 

Yep... without taking sides, I’m very skeptical of any insurance company in Thailand right now !!!.... 

 

 

 

[daveAustin]

What a complete mess and an utter a$$ Thailand is making of itself over this bloody thing. Get your house in order; stop carting tourists off for the snivels and come down hard on shoddy insurance companies. Genuinely Want to attract tourists? Well then drop all this nonsense, or at least pick up the bill when you put someone away for no reason, but treat them with some respect and dignity! Hope each and every one of the rulemakers behind these policies finds themselves similarly shafted when in foreign lands. I would pay good money to see it. Ooh, makes my blood boil!  

[South]

Any expat living here should have a good proper fully covered insurance policy which equates to no problems. Those that either don't have adequate cover and/or stupidly enough have no insurance whatsoever have only themselves to blame. Simple as.

[Guest Isaanlife]

On 9/21/2021 at 10:04 PM, Tropicalevo said:

Foreigners have been ignoring the test results for a while now.

I know a number of people who have self-tested positive (ATK) and just stayed at home.

They were showing mild symptoms and even managed to pass it on to family members.

 

You know a number of people?

 

I call BS on that one. 

 

I am pretty sure they did not call you specifically to inform you they are covid positive and that they passed it on to family members.

 

The most popular phrase on this forum is "I know someone"

[Guest Isaanlife]

On 9/21/2021 at 10:04 PM, Tropicalevo said:

Foreigners have been ignoring the test results for a while now.

I know a number of people who have self-tested positive (ATK) and just stayed at home.

They were showing mild symptoms and even managed to pass it on to family members.

 

You know a number of people?

 

I call BS on that one. 

 

I am pretty sure they did not call you specifically to inform you they are covid positive and that they passed it on to family members.

 

The most popular phrase on this forum is "I know someone"

[Guest Isaanlife]

3 hours ago, daveAustin said:

What a complete mess and an utter a$$ Thailand is making of itself over this bloody thing. Get your house in order; stop carting tourists off for the snivels and come down hard on shoddy insurance companies. Genuinely Want to attract tourists? Well then drop all this nonsense, or at least pick up the bill when you put someone away for no reason, but treat them with some respect and dignity! Hope each and every one of the rulemakers behind these policies finds themselves similarly shafted when in foreign lands. I would pay good money to see it. Ooh, makes my blood boil!  

It is quite interesting all these tourist carted off with positive tests are 50,000 thb lighter and none of them are ever sick?