Who needs foreign tourists?

[gejohesch]

21 hours ago, Swimfan said:

Probably a country that relies on it for a significant portion of its GDP. 

Right! I never understood how some can make a big story of local tourism. After all, is it not basic : it is foreign tourists that bring in cash from abroad - USD's, EUR's, AUD's, JPY's etc?

Then again, I am not an economist.... 

[jesimps]

22 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

What a stupid, thoughtless post from @Guderian... you really think two days on the weekend can make up for the previous 7-day-busy week? 

Miserable goit.

 

[newnative]

4 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Wake up. Your own heading said 'Who needs foreign tourists ? ' . Maybe you've forgotten. Anyway, the answer is Thailand needs foreign tourists. 

     Maybe you should wake up.  That was not my heading.  I am not the OP, this is not my thread.  I am not forgetting something I did not write.  But, clearly you've lost the thread.   

[Cherrytreeview]

22 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

What a stupid, thoughtless post from @Guderian... you really think two days on the weekend can make up for the previous 7-day-busy week? 

And 20% of GDP.

The sort of moronic post that doesn't realise that the existing social infrastructure can't survive long term without tourist dollars.

Certainly not with the tinnies out of 7-11 and 40 baht chicken and rice merchants.

Slow economic desolation for slow learners.

[Pedrogaz]

Personally I would rather we had a very small tourist industry with few Brits, Russians and Germans and no Indians or Chinese. I'd like the industry to occupy about 6 % of the economy instead of 20% as it does now and that decisions were taken to ensure that any new hotels etc adhere to the strictest environmental standards in the world. When I look at the ugly development and environmental destruction in Koh Chang, for example, it makes me want to weep.

 

Having said that, I am well off and can survive without working for money, so I am in a privileged set. Thousands or millions of people whose livelihood is tied up with the fortunes of tourism, would probably disagree with me. Basically there are probably a great deal more people in the tourism camp, that in mine for restricted tourism. Bowing to democracy I would have to expect the our tourism will continue to attract huge numbers of Indian men and Chinese couples travelling about the country in coaches. 

 

[martin81]

Domestic tourism probably does not add much to Gdp per capita as it is mostly money that might otherwise be spent other places in Thailand. Like in Bangkok where many of the weekend visitors come from.

Foreign tourism on the other hand is equal to export as it adds foreign currency to the Thai economy.

 

 

[newnative]

5 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

If someone titles their post "Who needs foreign tourists?" and within the body of the text says "With crowds like this, who needs foreign tourists?", there can only really be two meanings.  One, genuine "Thailand doesn't need foreign tourists" and one sarcastic "Thailand needs foreign tourists, people who say they don't are wrong".

 

Judging by the post beneath the title, which, to me and many others, appears to be reporting a large numbers of domestic tourists, it would appear that the OP's use of the phrase "Who needs foreign tourists?" implies that foreign tourists are not needed because of the level of domestic tourism.

 

I think most people would agree that this is wrong and that Thailand does indeed "need" foreign tourists.

 

OP does go on to say "OK, I know, the hotels and restaurants and bars (if they ever reopen) need them", which still moves him closer to acknowledging the real situation, but doesn't fully capture the number of industries or individuals that have been impacted by the lack of tourism.

 

I'm sure OP either didn't fully consider, or wasn't aware of, the full impact of the lack of tourism.  I'm also sure they weren't being deliberately provocative.  But it remains that there is a pretty strong case for them being wrong about this, which makes correcting them quite reasonable.

     You, of course, are entitled to your opinion.  I, and I think most people reading his post, took the headline and his comments on not needing foreign tourists as facetious.  Certainly the OP is well aware of the impact of the lack of foreign tourists.   Who could not be.  But, perhaps after endless months of covid and a devastated tourist industry on full display every day, not to mention the thousands of posts already discussing every aspect of it, perhaps at this point it's not absolutely necessary to include the statement that 'Thailand needs foreign tourists' every single time you post on the subject of tourism--or make an observation on seeing some activity on the beach. 

    Obviously, you are in the camp that feels that the effects of no foreign tourists must be stated each and every time tourism is brought up--as you did in your post.   Thank you for stating once again in case everyone has forgotten that Thailand does need foreign tourists.  I continue to find the OP's post to be a refreshing bit of good news with his Jomtien observations.   I guess I should mention that, yes, it's a refreshing bit of good news but, darn it, don't forget, Thailand still needs foreign tourists.  

      

[mran66]

...just look what happened to Thailand Current ccount once the tourist flow stopped after Q12020...foreign currency income of this country is very dependent on tourism and industries tied to toursim (like condo construction) - millions of people have their livelihood dependent on that.

 

On the other hand, would be kind of interesting to see how the country would become if tourism would be say 10% of 2019 level, many things would change...

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/current-account

 

[newnative]

8 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

There are thousands of jobless, homeless and starving people living in the streets of Pattaya, which my family and our friends support to the best of our ability as often as possible. 

Implying that the few weekend travelers are enough - even on a funny note - is a slap in the face of these people and all the people who help them on a daily basis. 

 

I stand by my remark.

    As I said in my previous post to BangkokReady, everyone is aware of this.  Is there anyone breathing unaware?    We have been dealing with the effects of covid on tourism for months and months.  It's on stark display every single day.  It's been discussed ad infinitum on numerous threads, and continues to be discussed. 

   Finally, with the long, most recent painful lockdown being eased somewhat, a poster goes on an outing and takes a few minutes to note some positive signs of life he observed in Jomtien.  No sooner had I finished reading this bit of good news, after so much bad, and along comes you with your post taking a big dump on it.   In a sea of negativity, maybe try welcoming a little wave of optimism now and then.    

[3NUMBAS]

the foreign tourists are now unwaged ,,gatwick airport needs resucitation due to lost jobs for example

[spidermike007]

23 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Let's not forget, Thailand already had record household debt, pre covid.  Default rates will be huge.  

Good point. People forget how many issues Thailand was facing in previous years, long before the Apocalypse. 

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, internationalism said:

so what is domestic tourism spending in thailand now?

TAT projections for 5300b per trip (not per day, as I have wrongly put) per person is still overestimate.

But for foreign tourists average spending, in covid situation, will be higher, then before, because budget tourists won't be coming and because there would be longer stays. TAT estimates 43k per trip.

 

 

Domestic tourism would be booming now, if Cha Cha and Anutin had been on the job, and shut down the Samut seafood market last December. It all started there. Spectacular malfeasance. And he admitted he was scared of the "optics" of a shutdown. All we needed was a partial lockdown of a 2km. radius. 

 

Thank the top coward. 

[UKJASE]

are many places selling beers over in patts?  here in hua hin there are a fair few places we can go, but still quite low key

 

definitely seems that the powers that be are easing up a bit on being so strict on beer sales

[DaLa]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the foreign tourists are now unwaged ,,gatwick airport needs resucitation due to lost jobs for example

I'm sorry to hear that; however, coming from the 4th largest city in the UK that lost 20% of its workforce's business and income. They will have to deal with it.   Airports are aggressively engaged and  preoccupied with money grabbing, and absolutely totally uninterested in the customers experience.  Gatwick airport could fall into the sea for me and I wouldn't shed 1 tear.  PS. Ive used about 100 airports in 40 years of travel and 90%  would fail my 'customer experience' test. Birmingham airport in the UK  just about passes as 'doing what it says on the tin' but is still far from  value for money. We've all been conned  by a succession of governments and restricted  choice in how we use this 'service'.

[Stargeezr]

In reading all the posts, there are posters who agree, and some who disagree. Then there is the poster

calling someone's post stupid and thoughtless, and those could be considered as fighting words, or words of disrespect.

  Being that Thailand is a tropical country that gets international tourists almost all year round, it does

need the foreign travelers and tourists. The domestic tourists to Pattaya and other beach side cities 

certainly help some locals, and that is good to see people going to the beaches again.  It will be

better for the big hotels and big businesses when international travel recovers as well. Answering the original

heading, of Who needs foreign tourists, well nearly every country does, as the extra money helps a whole lot

of people. Period.

  Geezer

[In Full Agreement]

12 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Sorry, but what a stupid, thoughtless post from you.

 

Starting a post with words like this isn't likely to make you any new friends.

 

 

[kinyara]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Good point. People forget how many issues Thailand was facing in previous years, long before the Apocalypse. 

Why is this any more of an issue in Thailand than for example the UK or US both of whom have worse Household Debt to GDP ratios than Thailand ?  Every country has " many issues ", I've yet to live in one where everything works as people would hope.  What makes Thailand so unique in that respect ?

 

[Swiss1960]

2 hours ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

Starting a post with words like this isn't likely to make you any new friends.

 

 

1) The notion that somebody might try to make friends on a public and anonymous forum makes me ROFL

2) I have never been and will never be intimidated by or a member of the dictatorship of political correct language

[morrobay]

8 hours ago, UKJASE said:

are many places selling beers over in patts?  here in hua hin there are a fair few places we can go, but still quite low key

 

 

Yes you can find beer in some places in Pattaya. And it's also lo key as you report from hin

[nobodysfriend]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Domestic tourism would be booming now, if Cha Cha and Anutin had been on the job, and shut down the Samut seafood market last December. It all started there. Spectacular malfeasance. And he admitted he was scared of the "optics" of a shutdown. All we needed was a partial lockdown of a 2km. radius. 

 

Thank the top coward. 

Without any doubt , a lot of mistakes had been done by the government in the handling of the Covid crisis .

One of the biggest was not to shut down the whole of BKK when the first cases appeared there . They did the exact opposite of what the chinese did on the first outbreak in Wuhan . ( Locked down everything ) . They allowed all the all the workers from Bangkok to freely spread the virus by returning to their native communities by Songkran .

Thai government sometimes seems to follow the directives given by the chinese , but when the chinese did something effective to reduce the transmission of the virus , Thai government does the opposite .

No logic in that ...

[spidermike007]

Been traveling to Bangkok and finding five star hotel rooms at 1,500 a nite. Used to be 5,000. And the top end of four star at 1,000 to 1,100. Used to be 2,500 and up. A travelers bargain for sure. One can only hope the tourists do not return. 

 

Hey Cha Cha. You base policy on fear, panic and science denial, and this is what you get. You are responsible for this devastation. It is the "Prayuth inferiority". A near total destruction (some would say sabotage) of a vital industry. Just one more reason you need to be kicked out, locked up, or forced into exile. It is for the good of the nation. 

[In Full Agreement]

15 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

1) The notion that somebody might try to make friends on a public and anonymous forum makes me ROFL

2) I have never been and will never be intimidated by or a member of the dictatorship of political correct language

 

Are you equally opposed to basic and common courtesy?

 

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

A travelers bargain for sure. One can only hope the tourists do not return. 

I'm hoping ... ????

 

Planning on buzzin' around the country a couple more times before the hordes of tourist return.  The way things are going, don't think we have much to worry about.  Maybe high season 2023, they may start to trickle, barring any oops and new silly pandemics.  Although ... 

 

I suspect the 'war of viruses' will be here for many decades.  They'll be milking this like the 'war on drugs' & ' war on terror'.  

 

Fear has already proved to be a multi billion dollar market.  It will continue ... endlessly.

Edited October 12, 2021 by KhunLA

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 10/10/2021 at 7:31 AM, internationalism said:

foreign tourists do bring foreign currency, stay for several weeks, spend over 5k per day on hotel, services and goods. 

From today's TAT projection for 2022 domestic tourists are counted 5300b per day, but it's grossly overestimated.

I think for thai a fraction, around 1k per day, is realistic. They would travel in family 4+ or largish group, stay all in one bungalow or large room. It would be only 1 night during weekend or 3-4 night extended holiday.

Even with special offers on agoda those jomtien hotels are empty even during weekends  

They won't go searching for their future brides or orgies where the real money is spent. 

 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I'm hoping ... ????

 

Planning on buzzin' around the country a couple more times before the hordes of tourist return.  The way things are going, don't think we have much to worry about.  Maybe high season 2023, they may start to trickle, barring any oops and new silly pandemics.  Although ... 

 

I suspect the 'war of viruses' will be here for many decades.  They'll be milking this like the 'war on drugs' & ' war on terror'.  

 

Fear has already proved to be a multi billion dollar market.  It will continue ... endlessly.

The level of fear they have encouraged is amazing. Granted, Covid can be deadly for some. But, it is not the Bubonic plague, and this is not the Zombie Apocalypse. 

[Chad3000]

On 10/10/2021 at 10:27 PM, Leaver said:

 

Let's not forget, Thailand already had record household debt, pre covid.  Default rates will be huge.  

Asian financial concerns keep debts off their books.

 

Poor shareholders...

[Chad3000]

The quality of my holidays here without tourists. Jus sayin

[Leaver]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:35 PM, spidermike007 said:

Good point. People forget how many issues Thailand was facing in previous years, long before the Apocalypse. 

 

As another member mentions, every country has issues, but if we look at Thailand's tourism industry separately from other issues, then yes, Thailand's tourism industry had problems pre covid.  

 

Marketing to emerging economies, just to inflate tourist numbers, is a downward spiral.   

 

Where Thailand differs to most countries, is it relies on tourism for around 20% of GDP.  At that level, Thailand's economy  is pretty much reliant on tourism, and you would think the Thai's would nurture the industry, but no, it's rape, pillage, price gouge, tax, extort, assault, rob, rip off, scam etc, and then wonder why all the independent western tourists are no longer coming back, meanwhile, whilst outpricing themselves in  the South East Asian tourism market.  

 

As I have said before, unless things change, Thailand's tourism industry will go the same way as the Nokia phone company.  They had a huge market share, but ultimately went broke.  

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

Asian financial concerns keep debts off their books.

 

Poor shareholders...

 

Question is, how exposed are the Thai banks?  

 

 

[mran66]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:05 PM, Leaver said:

 

 As I have said before, unless things change, Thailand's tourism industry will go the same way as the Nokia phone company.  They had a huge market share, but ultimately went broke.  

 

...interesting comparison...spent almost 20yrs in the N company riding the wave up and down...thinking about it, there indeed are some comparable internal components behind the fall of N and Thailand, though a bit hard to apply them directly to Thai case to predict how things will go here...