Enlarged prostate treatment (Rezum)

[KannikaP]

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

a lot of exercise or heavy work seems to make things worse

So stop them.

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm sorry it's happened to you, but I wouldn't let a Thai doctor cut into me.

Well, my TURP was carried out by one of the top urological surgeons in Australia, so you may want to write to him and tell him that his procedures are not up to scratch, especially as you know so much about this!

 

As I have already said, thousands upon thousands of expats and medical tourists arrive in Thailand to have medical procedures, and go back home satisfied with the outcomes.
 

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

 

If the nettle root is purely a placebo effect on me, why didn't the Saw Palmetto help me?

The placebo effect is basically the mind believing that whatever one has taken will help/cure them, and who knows what goes on in yours?

 

A few years back you posted that you were ready to die, and indeed wanted to die, so obviously that's changed now!
 

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, rumak said:

though bm2 and i agree on most things........ at the time when i told of my bad experience with Cipro he suggested I might not be in good health

A few years ago he also posted that he was a user of ciprofloxacin and recommended it, and I mentioned that there were reports in the US that it caused tendon damage, and it happened to me, and I posted about it, and quite some time later he cottoned on to this and changed his tune..........

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, xylophone said:

A few years back you posted that you were ready to die, and indeed wanted to die, so obviously that's changed now!

I've lived my life and am OK with death when it comes, that's not changed.

And neither is it the same as posting I wanted to die.

 

I also use Cipro when it is required.

It's a useful drug for problem bacterial infections, I've never 'changed my tune' about that either. Obviously not all drugs are suitable for everyone, penicillin can be deadly to the susceptible.

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've lived my life and am OK with death when it comes, that's not changed.

And neither is the same as posting I wanted to die.

And neither is the same as posting I wanted to die.

 

Changed your tune then, because that is what you posted!

 

Anyway I had you on ignore for quite some time because of your nonsense posts (the above and others boasting about your "partnership" relationships and so on) but took you off that list..........but back on you go, had enough of your posts.

[xylophone]

On 12/21/2021 at 7:33 PM, GarryP said:

I am still feeling burning from time to time when passing urine so there is still some inflammation.

You could try taking the urinary alkaliniser called "Ural" to see if that helps at all, although after an operation such as yours, it would be quite normal to get some sort of burning feeling in the urethra, however good that you only feel it "from time to time".

 

I hope things steadily improve for you, and it will be great if you keep posting on here as it will help others in similar situations.

 

Good luck with your next visit/check up.

[DrPhibes]

On 12/14/2021 at 3:47 PM, KhunBENQ said:

And don't forget to have 250'000 Baht at hand.

(~6700 EUR, 7500 USD, 5700 GBP)

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/packages/water-vapor-therapy

 

It's not quite easy to find prices for self paying patients in other countries.

In the US, Resume treatment is down to about $2000, reverse medical tourism?

[zzaa09]

On 12/14/2021 at 3:52 AM, spidermike007 said:

True that. And yet we think we are SO advanced and so civilized. That would be amusing if it were not so sad. 

....and the delusions that still continue on.

[KhunBENQ]

17 hours ago, DrPhibes said:

In the US, Resume treatment is down to about $2000, reverse medical tourism?

It's the usual premium.

Paying for name and no competition.

And yes in normal times one could look for a country with cheaper price.

[GarryP]

5 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

It's the usual premium.

Paying for name and no competition.

And yes in normal times one could look for a country with cheaper price.

Yeah, I found it in Australia for approx. Baht 130,000, but with Covid there was no chance of getting in for treatment. But if you factor in airfare and accommodation, it would not have been much cheaper than Thailand. Singapore was Baht 300,000 to 350,000 so I'd already written that off. The UK was Baht 250,000 as I would have had to go private, but I was planning on that as I could visit family while there and kill two birds with one stone and was waiting for international travel to open up again.  Then out of the blue it became available here and I was contacted to see if I wanted to go ahead here. I ended up paying approx. Baht 127,000 (@USD3,800) for the actual treatment here, while my office health insurance covered 73,000 (this was on the promotional package which is no longer available). 

 

Hopefully, as more Thai hospitals start to provide this treatment, the price will come down. Also, if you do have health insurance, you should check with the provider before going through with the treatment as some providers do not cover this treatment as they see it as elective and non-essential. The reason I managed to get the package was that one of those in line was advised by their insurance provider that they did not cover the treatment so I got their place. I expected to pay the package price myself, but very surprisingly, the insurance company kicked in too.  

[Richard 2020]

[GarryP]

8 minutes ago, Richard 2020 said:

It was mentioned earlier in the thread. Don't know what their price is though. Bamrungrad's current price is Baht 250,000. 

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, GarryP said:

It was mentioned earlier in the thread. Don't know what their price is though. Bamrungrad's current price is Baht 250,000. 

As I have posted elsewhere - new technologies are only as good as the doctor using them and that in turn depends on experience (both in using it and also in selecting patients for whom it is suitable - which is not everyone). You really do not want to be part of someone's learning curve, so investigate closely how many procedures the doctor you choose has performed.

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

As I have posted elsewhere - new technologies are only as good as the doctor using them and that in turn depends on experience (both in using it and also in selecting patients for whom it is suitable - which is not everyone). You really do not want to be part of someone's learning curve, so investigate closely how many procedures the doctor you choose has performed.

I agree, but with covid, international travel was off the cards. The doctor who did the procedure on me had at the time only done 23 cases. Last time I was there for my follow up appointment 9 days ago he said he was over 50 cases. He was very clear on the point that the treatment was not appropriate for everyone and went into great detail on this. I realize it was a risk on my part, but one I was prepared to take. However, had it been a more invasive treatment such as TURP or other surgery, I would would have gone with a doctor with much more experience in the treatment. There wasn't that option for Rezum in Thailand. 

 

Maybe I was lucky but in my case my condition is improving and I am no longer on meds. Urgency and frequency is still quite high post treatment, but that is slowly improving too. I won't know the full benefit until 4 to 6 months post treatment it is only 2 days shy of 10 weeks since I had the treatment.    

[Sheryl]

On 12/14/2021 at 3:47 PM, KhunBENQ said:

And don't forget to have 250'000 Baht at hand.

(~6700 EUR, 7500 USD, 5700 GBP)

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/packages/water-vapor-therapy

 

It's not quite easy to find prices for self paying patients in other countries.

BNH hospital is offering it for 150,000

 

 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Great thread. Thanks for starting this. I just today received my order of Swanson Stinging Nettle Root extract. 899 baht. 100 caps x 500 mg via Lazada.

 

My issue is the getting up 3-4 times a night. Things are quite OK during the day, even if I drink beer for a couple of hours. Sometimes I don't even have to hit the john for hours in the evening. Over night is another story.

 

Background: I was treated for prostate cancer in 2014 at Bangkok Hospital Medical Centre. My first quarterly post-treatment (IMRT - Image Modulated Radio Therapy)  checkup showed a PSA plunge to 2.5 from 14.xx. It's been as low as 0.6, ranging up and down from 0.6 to 2.5 over 7 years. 

 

Here's a fresh new study titled: Treatment of Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia by Natural Drugs, published by the US National Institute of Health, Dec. 2021.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8659259/

 

Search for "nettle". At the third instance, is Section 3.10: Urtica dioica (nettle). Sections 3.10, 3.10.1 and 3:10.2 are worth reading and are short. 

 

An extract: 

 

Quote

The [nettle] extract improved urinary symptoms associated with BPH in 78% of patients after 3 months and in 91% of patients after 6 months. The diurnal and nocturnal urinary frequency was significantly improved, as well as the mean urine output [255]. Another randomized and double blind clinical study compared the effect of the aqueous root extract to placebo group. The dose was 120 mg; the patients used the root extract 3 times per day, for 6 months. Thanks to the treatment, the symptoms were relieved compared to the placebo group. The prevention effect of the treatment was identified after 18 months as well [256].

 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

Great thread. Thanks for starting this. I just today received my order of Swanson Stinging Nettle Root extract. 899 baht. 100 caps x 500 mg via Lazada.

Why?

iHerb price is $6.50/100 bottle, $10 postage, 15% discount today.

Arrives in less than a month.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Why?

iHerb price is $6.50/100 bottle, $10 postage, 15% discount today.

Arrives in less than a month.

I ordered it Sunday, received it this morning, less than 48 hours later. This order is a test to see if it works for me. If it does, I'll try the iHerb route, ordering multiple bottles. Thanks.

[Tropicalevo]

19 minutes ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

I ordered it Sunday, received it this morning, less than 48 hours later. This order is a test to see if it works for me. If it does, I'll try the iHerb route, ordering multiple bottles. Thanks.

That is the route that I am taking as well.

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

BNH hospital is offering it for 150,000

 

 

This is great news. Since it was approved by the Thai FDA, it seems that more hospitals are jumping on board. Hopefully, this will create competition and bring down the price. I wonder what the standard price will be once the special offer expires. Probably still be cheaper than Bamrungrad.  

[xylophone]

33 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

That is the route that I am taking as well.

More information to consider………..

 

Some studies suggest that stinging nettle is comparable to finasteride (a medication commonly prescribed for BPH) in slowing the growth of certain prostate cells. However, unlike finasteride, the herb does not decrease prostate size.

 

Possible Interactions, so seek advice if taking the meds below................

Antiplatelet and anticoagulant drugs (blood thinners)

Stinging nettle may affect the blood's ability to clot, and could interfere with blood-thinning drugs, including:

·        Warfarin (Coumadin)

·        Clopidogrel (Plavix)

·        Aspirin

Drugs for high blood pressure

Stinging nettle may lower blood pressure, so it could strengthen the effects of these drugs:

·        ACE inhibitors: Captopril (Capoten), Elaropril (Vasotec), lisinopril (Zestril), fosinopril (Monopril)

·        Beta-blockers: Atenolol (Tenormin), metoprolol (Lopressor, Toprol XL), propranolol (Induran)

·        Calcium channel blockers: Nifedipine (Procardia), amlodipine (Norvasc), verapamil (Calan, Isoptin)

Diuretics (water pills)

Because stinging nettle can act as a diuretic, it can increase the effects of these drugs, raising the risk of dehydration:

·        Furosemide (Lasix)

·        Hydrocholorothiazide

Drugs for diabetes

Stinging nettle may lower blood sugar, so it could strengthen the effects of these drugs, raising the risk of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar).

Lithium

Stinging nettle may have a diuretic effect and may reduce the body's ability to remove this drug.

Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs)

In a scientific study of patients with acute arthritis, stewed stinging nettle leaves enhanced the anti-inflammatory effect of diclofenac, an NSAID. Although this effect can reduce pain, talk to your doctor before taking or using stinging nettle if you also take NSAIDs.

 

https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/herb/stinging-nettle 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

^^^ All this stuff about side-effects and drug interactions is in the massive new NIH meta-study I referenced in my post. Just published, Dec. 2021. It compares natural drug effectiveness with pharmaceuticals. Each treatment vector has its usefulness.

 

Also, it notes, re finasteride: 

Quote

Current treatment includes 5α-reductase enzyme inhibitors (finasteride, dutasteride), which block androgen signaling via inhibition of DHT production. After a few months, they could reduce the size of the prostate gland. Their relevant side effects include reduced libido, erectile dysfunction, and ejaculation problems. Since relationships between 5α-reductase enzyme inhibitors and prostate cancer occurrence remained unclear, PSA levels should be monitored during therapy. Due to their slow onset of action, they are only appropriate for long-term medication [10,11].

 

[xylophone]

This might bring hope to those suffering from prostate cancer, and it seems there is progress being made on many fronts.

 

Game changing' surgery could cure prostate cancer

Prostate cancer could be cured with a "game changing" one-hour operation that uses electric currents to destroy the most difficult to reach tumours.

 

The pioneering treatment has been used to treat the disease for the first time on the NHS, with surgeons saying the breakthrough could offer hope to thousands of men.

 

Treatments offered normally involve surgery to remove the prostate, or radiotherapy, both of which can cause distressing side-effects such as problems with urination, incontinence and loss of sexual function.

 

Surgeons said the new therapy, called NanoKnife, which has been used to treat prostate cancer patients at University College London Hospital (UCLH), was "amazingly simple and quick".

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/game-changing-surgery-could-cure-prostate-cancer/XBOBQR6KJMVBGYTS4IFN6HEMNQ/

[KannikaP]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:04 AM, xylophone said:

A few years back you posted that you were ready to die, and indeed wanted to die, so obviously that's changed now!

What meds do you take to stimulate your memory?  

[xylophone]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

What meds do you take to stimulate your memory?  

Have always had a good memory, so meds not necessary!!

 

But if you need them I'm sure someone on here can help you!!
 

[Saanim]

After all the various treatments, wonder herbs and still a lot of suffering, you will find (by the doctor affirmation) that a surgery is unavoidable (benign prostatic hyperplasia).  Thai hospitals can do it properly, perhaps better than in your home country.  So, why not to shorten your suffering? 

  

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, Saanim said:

After all the various treatments, wonder herbs and still a lot of suffering, you will find (by the doctor affirmation) that a surgery is unavoidable (benign prostatic hyperplasia).  Thai hospitals can do it properly, perhaps better than in your home country.  So, why not to shorten your suffering? 

  

The people that had the surgery aren't selling it very well IMHO, pain and suffering!

On the other hand, I've almost recovered after 2 years of herbs and medicine.

And no 500,000bht hospital bill, I pay around 250bht every 3 months (inc meds).

Seeing as I probably only have 5 years left (10 at the outside), I'd have to be crazy to have the operation.

[Saanim]

57 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The people that had the surgery aren't selling it very well IMHO, pain and suffering!

Wrong sample of the people, you did not ask me... (but I do not sell it...) 

[GarryP]

A quick update. In two days it will be 11 weeks since I had the Rezum treatment. My flow is continuing to improve and is already better than pre-treatment levels in the day time. I am only getting up twice a night now and the flow is so much better than it used to be. In fact I can't remember it being this strong at night. This helps with sleeping as I am in and out of the bathroom in a jiffy, unlike before when it took an age to get started and then there was the stopping and starting for a couple of minutes until the bladder was empty, by which time I was fully awake.  

 

There are still a couple of negatives though and those are urinary urgency and frequency in the day time. So I am peeing only 150 to 200ml most times. However, there is still occasional burning when passing urine and tissue present (minute threads), which I take as a positive because this indicates there is still some inflammation and, as a result, there is likely to be further improvement. It should be noted that from all my reading up on this treatment, burning and tissue issues have usually resolved by about 6 weeks so, perhaps, my body takes longer than most to heal. Any way, there can be quite a variation in the time frame for improvement from one patient to another, but I just seem to be taking longer than the average. 

 

Hopefully, by the time I've hit the 4 month mark, everything will be back to normal.  All in all, I would say that I am happy with the results so far and am looking forward to further improvement. 

[fredscats]

15 hours ago, Saanim said:

After all the various treatments, wonder herbs and still a lot of suffering, you will find (by the doctor affirmation) that a surgery is unavoidable (benign prostatic hyperplasia).  Thai hospitals can do it properly, perhaps better than in your home country.  So, why not to shorten your suffering? 

  

I'm all for this too,just for it chopped ,all the wonder treatments come to nought,beads whatever it was called ,could not be faulted few years ago,utter waste as will this

 

Just get the end of your cock unblocked from all the waste that accumulated,about 500 baht