Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[johng]

37 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

I will give you a choice of 2 to choose from, either Russia or Putin.

No I reject your 2 choices, as I said before this whole mess could have been avoided by letting zelensky negotiate...instead they sent Boris to insist on war...a proxy war to "bring Russia to its knees and envoke regime change"

with no US military personnel lost and low percentage of GDP spent a price well worth it  according to the war hawks...never mind the Ukrainians let them fight to the last man,womam and child !

Never mind that the illegal sanctions have backfired the Russian economy is doing fine and they are forging new trade links via BRICS further weakening the US hegemony.

Now It's looking increasingly likely those US/NATO troops will be on the ground in Ukraine...well at least that is one thing (GI) Joe got right !

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, johng said:

No I reject your 2 choices, as I said before this whole mess could have been avoided by letting zelensky negotiate...instead they sent Boris to insist on war...a proxy war to "bring Russia to its knees and envoke regime change"

with no US military personnel lost and low percentage of GDP spent a price well worth it  according to the war hawks...never mind the Ukrainians let them fight to the last man,womam and child !

Never mind that the illegal sanctions have backfired the Russian economy is doing fine and they are forging new trade links via BRICS further weakening the US hegemony.

Now It's looking increasingly likely those US/NATO troops will be on the ground in Ukraine...well at least that is one thing (GI) Joe got right !

Are you serious, Russia invaded Ukraine, Zelensky had nothing to negotiate about. Russia should leave Ukraine and peace will be restored. Does nothing compute in your Putin aligned head. Stop trying to blame Ukraine for a war Russia started.

 

[johng]

16 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

Stop trying to blame Ukraine for a war Russia started.

It is a war started in 2014 egged on and instigated by US /NATO meddling and provocation "Ukraine" had little choice but comply.

[Wobblybob]

7 minutes ago, johng said:

It is a war started in 2014 egged on and instigated by US /NATO meddling and provocation "Ukraine" had little choice but comply.

You really haven't got a clue, all you do is parrot Russian propaganda. The war started in 2014 was again led by Russian antagonists. 

Lets simplify things for you, before Russia illegally invaded Ukraine there were less members of NATO and now NATO has increased its membership, do you think they joined to attack Russia or is it because they feel safer joining an organisation mandated to uphold peace. You are totally by a country mile deluded! 

[GroveHillWanderer]

41 minutes ago, johng said:

No I reject your 2 choices, as I said before this whole mess could have been avoided by letting zelensky negotiate...instead they sent Boris to insist on war...a proxy war to "bring Russia to its knees and envoke regime change"

What on earth are you on about, "letting zelensky negotiate"?

 

Zelensky has been abundantly clear that he would never consider negotiating with Russia unless they withdraw from all Ukrainian territory. 

 

Zelenskyy says no Ukraine peace talks until full Russian withdrawal

 

Also, Boris Johnson never said he wanted regime change - a No 10 spokesman did once say that in unscripted remarks at a press conference, but that was quickly repudiated as a mis-statement of government policy.

 

UK clarifies it is not trying to bring down Putin regime over Russia-Ukraine war

[kwonitoy]

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, johng said:

You like war ?  WWIII  with a nuclear sprinkle on top ?

This whole thing could have been avoided if they had not sent Boris to insist on fighting..dont give in we got your back...fight to the last Ukrainian..it's very good value for (US)

It's very good value for arms manufacturers.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Not so much for the taxpayers though, nor for the poor Ukrainian boys that will die for American and European profit.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Zelensky has been abundantly clear that he would never consider negotiating with Russia unless they withdraw from all Ukrainian territory. 

IMO he will come to regret saying those words when he is forced to negotiate from a position of weakness, unless he does a runner first.

[tgw]

16 hours ago, johng said:

You like war ?  WWIII  with a nuclear sprinkle on top ?

This whole thing could have been avoided if they had not sent Boris to insist on fighting..dont give in we got your back...fight to the last Ukrainian..it's very good value for (US)

 

Fascinating how you imply Ukrainians have no free will of their own.

 

You are short sighted. If Putin gets what he wants now, it's almost guaranteed Georgia and Armenia are next, and then maybe Kazakstan and Moldova, then the Baltic states. Because "compromise".

Putin has to be stopped now, while it's possible.

[thaibeachlovers]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, it's not looking good for Ukraine. Will that extra ammunition arrive in time, or..................................

 

https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/04/28/syrskyi-ukraine-retreats-from-three-settlements-gains-island-as-russia-aims-to-seize-strategic-initiative/

 

 

[jas007]

The sooner this war ends, the better.  WW III would mean disaster.  The end of the world as we know it.  I’m not sure why everyone doesn’t understand that. 
 

And yet Poland is now suggesting that its territory be used to base nuclear weapons.  I can’t imagine Russia standing for that.  
 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, jas007 said:

The sooner this war ends, the better.  WW III would mean disaster.  The end of the world as we know it.  I’m not sure why everyone doesn’t understand that. 
 

And yet Poland is now suggesting that its territory be used to base nuclear weapons.  I can’t imagine Russia standing for that.  
 

Didn't hear you pipe up when Russia moved nuclear weapons to Belarus. 

[Jingthing]

38 minutes ago, jas007 said:

The sooner this war ends, the better.  WW III would mean disaster.  The end of the world as we know it.  I’m not sure why everyone doesn’t understand that. 
 

And yet Poland is now suggesting that its territory be used to base nuclear weapons.  I can’t imagine Russia standing for that.  
 

Not stopping Russia in Ukraine is the much faster and much more definite path to WW3 than "sacrificing" Ukraine to Russian imperialist fascists.

[Jingthing]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, it's not looking good for Ukraine. Will that extra ammunition arrive in time, or..................................

 

https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/04/28/syrskyi-ukraine-retreats-from-three-settlements-gains-island-as-russia-aims-to-seize-strategic-initiative/

 

 

Why is Ukraine weaker now? Because the Putin loving maga cult in the US cut them off for six months. DUH!

[Jingthing]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:26 AM, tgw said:

 

Fascinating how you imply Ukrainians have no free will of their own.

 

You are short sighted. If Putin gets what he wants now, it's almost guaranteed Georgia and Armenia are next, and then maybe Kazakstan and Moldova, then the Baltic states. Because "compromise".

Putin has to be stopped now, while it's possible.

People who don't get that negotiating with Putin is like negotiating with Hitler (you don't, you've got to crush them) may eventually get that reality, but for the time being acting like Putin is a normal player is a role for useful idiots of Putin, or often worse.

[Jingthing]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:07 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO he will come to regret saying those words when he is forced to negotiate from a position of weakness, unless he does a runner first.

Again you give away your perverted emotional attachment to the side of Russian fascists.

[Jingthing]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:04 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

It's very good value for arms manufacturers.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Not so much for the taxpayers though, nor for the poor Ukrainian boys that will die for American and European profit.

You don't care about the Ukrainian boys. You care about Russia winning. 

[Jingthing]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:54 PM, johng said:

It is a war started in 2014 egged on and instigated by US /NATO meddling and provocation "Ukraine" had little choice but comply.

Garbage Kremlin propaganda.

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Not stopping Russia in Ukraine is the much faster and much more definite path to WW3 than "sacrificing" Ukraine to Russian imperialist fascists.

Garbage western propaganda.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Garbage western propaganda.

Back to rationality. 

Look at Putin's actions over time.

He doesn't stop.

[jvs]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Garbage western propaganda.

Conformation bias.

[ChicagoExpat]

First visit to this thread.  As expected, there are plenty of pro-Putin simps here, or course all arguing that they just want peace in the region.

 

These are the same guys who would be arguing in 1939-1940 that we should just give Adolph what he wants.  After all, his victory is inevitable, and the U.S. and UK supporting France, Poland, the SU, etc is terrible, costs lives, and is useless in the face of the unstoppable blonde supermen.

 

Supporters of fascists never change, and they rarely argue honestly.

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and reply linking to a 2021 story has been removed

[jas007]

22 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Didn't hear you pipe up when Russia moved nuclear weapons to Belarus. 

Don’t forget, Russia has a legitimate and very reasonable concern with security. Belarus is in their neighborhood, within their sphere of influence, so to speak. Riussia doesn’t want enemy nukes on their border. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, when Russia was promised that NATO would not expand Eastward, NATO has been doing just that. And so Russia is concerned. Moving nukes into Poland would be like waiving a red flag at a bull.  Thinking the Russians will sit by and do nothing is not realistic.  
 

Image an enemy power moving weapons and munitions (including nukes) into Tijuana, on the US border. The US would most definitely respond.  That situation would not be tolerated. Or go back to 1962 and the Cuban missile crisis.  Again, the US had a problem with that and we almost had a nuclear war.  
 

The bottom line is this:  ignoring Russia’s legitimate security interests isn’t going to work. Western leaders who seem to think otherwise are delusional morons of the highest order.  Putin is not another Hitler intent on reassembling the Soviet Union. That’s just propaganda. The Soviet Union fell apart for good reason. Russia won’t make the same mistake twice. Anyway, the war to date has been a failure for the West and a disaster for Ukraine. The country is destroyed. Hundreds of thousands are dead.  For what?  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Don’t forget, Russia has a legitimate and very reasonable concern with security. Belarus is in their neighborhood, within their sphere of influence, so to speak. Riussia doesn’t want enemy nukes on their border. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, when Russia was promised that NATO would not expand Eastward, NATO has been doing just that. And so Russia is concerned. Moving nukes into Poland would be like waiving a red flag at a bull.  Thinking the Russians will sit by and do nothing is not realistic.  
 

Image an enemy power moving weapons and munitions (including nukes) into Tijuana, on the US border. The US would most definitely respond.  That situation would not be tolerated. Or go back to 1962 and the Cuban missile crisis.  Again, the US had a problem with that and we almost had a nuclear war.  
 

The bottom line is this:  ignoring Russia’s legitimate security interests isn’t going to work. Western leaders who seem to think otherwise are delusional morons of the highest order.  Putin is not another Hitler intent on reassembling the Soviet Union. That’s just propaganda. The Soviet Union fell apart for good reason. Russia won’t make the same mistake twice. Anyway, the war to date has been a failure for the West and a disaster for Ukraine. The country is destroyed. Hundreds of thousands are dead.  For what?  
 

Nothing but Russian talking points as expected

[jvs]

2 hours ago, jas007 said:

Don’t forget, Russia has a legitimate and very reasonable concern with security. Belarus is in their neighborhood, within their sphere of influence, so to speak. Riussia doesn’t want enemy nukes on their border. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, when Russia was promised that NATO would not expand Eastward, NATO has been doing just that. And so Russia is concerned. Moving nukes into Poland would be like waiving a red flag at a bull.  Thinking the Russians will sit by and do nothing is not realistic.  
 

Image an enemy power moving weapons and munitions (including nukes) into Tijuana, on the US border. The US would most definitely respond.  That situation would not be tolerated. Or go back to 1962 and the Cuban missile crisis.  Again, the US had a problem with that and we almost had a nuclear war.  
 

The bottom line is this:  ignoring Russia’s legitimate security interests isn’t going to work. Western leaders who seem to think otherwise are delusional morons of the highest order.  Putin is not another Hitler intent on reassembling the Soviet Union. That’s just propaganda. The Soviet Union fell apart for good reason. Russia won’t make the same mistake twice. Anyway, the war to date has been a failure for the West and a disaster for Ukraine. The country is destroyed. Hundreds of thousands are dead.  For what?  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You need to pipe down and do some reading!

Is NATO the enemy?NO!

NATO is not an offensive force,it will only protect its borders and if one of their members is attacked the whole of NATO will respond as one.

NATO has not expanded,countries are free to ask for membership.

Did the Ukraine ask to be part of the new russia?

No it was attacked because of the ego of one little man.

Did NATO break a promise?Not in my view but russia did!

Russia is the one that is bringing more countries to join NATO!

 

The country is destroyed. Hundreds of thousands are dead.  For what?

Yes for what?

For freedom ,that is one reason.

 

[jvs]

45 minutes ago, jvs said:

You need to pipe down and do some reading!

Is NATO the enemy?NO!

NATO is not an offensive force,it will only protect its borders and if one of their members is attacked the whole of NATO will respond as one.

NATO has not expanded,countries are free to ask for membership.

Did the Ukraine ask to be part of the new russia?

No it was attacked because of the ego of one little man.

Did NATO break a promise?Not in my view but russia did!

Russia is the one that is bringing more countries to join NATO!

 

The country is destroyed. Hundreds of thousands are dead.  For what?

Yes for what?

For freedom ,that is one reason.

 

If you are confused by this then please feel free to ask questions.

[Gweiloman]

17 hours ago, jas007 said:

Don’t forget, Russia has a legitimate and very reasonable concern with security. Belarus is in their neighborhood, within their sphere of influence, so to speak. Riussia doesn’t want enemy nukes on their border. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, when Russia was promised that NATO would not expand Eastward, NATO has been doing just that. And so Russia is concerned. Moving nukes into Poland would be like waiving a red flag at a bull.  Thinking the Russians will sit by and do nothing is not realistic.  
 

Image an enemy power moving weapons and munitions (including nukes) into Tijuana, on the US border. The US would most definitely respond.  That situation would not be tolerated. Or go back to 1962 and the Cuban missile crisis.  Again, the US had a problem with that and we almost had a nuclear war.  
 

The bottom line is this:  ignoring Russia’s legitimate security interests isn’t going to work. Western leaders who seem to think otherwise are delusional morons of the highest order.  Putin is not another Hitler intent on reassembling the Soviet Union. That’s just propaganda. The Soviet Union fell apart for good reason. Russia won’t make the same mistake twice. Anyway, the war to date has been a failure for the West and a disaster for Ukraine. The country is destroyed. Hundreds of thousands are dead.  For what?

 

+100

 

You are completely correct of course. Most of the world knows this as evidenced by the number of countries not sanctioning Russia and continuing to trade with Russia and even hoping to join BRICS. The only countries that go along with the western narrative are western countries plus servant states like Japan and Korea. I suspect that some of these countries do so only because they are bullied and fear the bad things that might happen to them, such as you know, unilateral sanctions, possible sabotage of their critical infrastructure (like what happened to Germany) and maybe even, god forbid, regime change (like Ukraine 2014). Incidentally, be prepared for lots of bullying. You will be called a Putin mouthpiece, spreading Russian propaganda, a shill, troll etc. The usual B.S. 

 

The goal of all this is clear to most; weaken Russia while at the same time benefiting the MIC that a former US president warned about. After that, shift attention to whom they consider their real adversary. The old divide and conquer playbook.

 

Of course Russia has no intention to invade or conquer any other country. This is, like you said, just propaganda, to justify continued military spending (cui bono). It is also projection by you know who. They sure would love to get their hands on the resources that Russia has.

 

[Gweiloman]

14 hours ago, jvs said:

If you are confused by this then please feel free to ask questions.

No need. You are just repeating western MSM. And we know their version of facts.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, jas007 said:

Anyway, the war to date has been a failure for the West and a disaster for Ukraine. The country is destroyed. Hundreds of thousands are dead.  For what?  
 

Agree 100%.