Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Virt]

10 minutes ago, Hummin said:

At same time offer Putin a life long retirement at St Helena all included! 

You know I'm on Ukrainians side, but could there be a solution other than this meaningless war?

 

You as well want and ending to this.

What do you suggest?

 

Do you suggest they just keep on fighting and killing each other, while the rest of the world bleed financially as bystanders?

 

The experts now expect Russia to change tactics and will just start flattening the cities from distance before entering.

That will leave Ukraine as flat as Berlin in WW2.

 

Shouldn't we try and stop the war before it comes to this?

 

I say we, but if course it's Ukraines own decision what to do.

It's their country.

 

All i can do as a bystander is to support Ukraine financially which i did, but i wish it was possible to stop this war somehow.

 

We could off course just go full tilt and walk into WW3, but are we interested in that?

[Chris.B]

3 hours ago, Hummin said:

Iconic U.S. brands Coca-Cola, Pepsi, McDonald’s and Starbucks suspend business in Russia

 

 

This will be a symbolic wake up call for most Russians who remember the “cold war”!
 

First time I came to Russia, it was the same day the very first Mc Donalds openend in Moscow, and I remember the line of the que that must been 500m or more when we passed by. I also remember how Gray, dirty and how little they had in the shops of variety of food and basic things. 
 

Actually the elderly people missed Stalin at that point, not so different most elderly Chinese in the villages in China still remembered and cultivated the memory of Mao when I visited in early 2000.
 

How the russians will react to the closure of these major western brands will be a interesting study to see how influencial they are now. American brands represented freedom back then, and even Rambo was a symbolic freedom fighter for the young russians. 

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/coca-cola-follows-mcdonalds-starbucks-in-suspending-business-in-russia.html

 

 

 

 

No more Big Macs and Cokes for the Orcs. Serve them right for letting their country invade or threaten everyone!  

 

 

[Kwasaki]

32 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

At least he wouldn’t capitulate in the face of an illegal and unprovoked invasion.

In negotiations the " illegal and  unprovoked " words wouldn't go down well. 

[Kwasaki]

31 minutes ago, Virt said:

Probably not, but what do you suggest.

 

The last couple of days shows this is spiralling out of control and if we need a solution at the table, they need to find one fast.

 

We're getting closer and closer to a situation the whole world does not need.

The terms have been layed out by Russia I don't think they will move on those. 

[Chris.B]

7 minutes ago, Virt said:

 

The experts now expect Russia to change tactics and will just start flattening the cities from distance before entering.

That will leave Ukraine as flat as Berlin in WW2.

 

Didn't Germany try that at Stalingrad?

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

In negotiations the " illegal and  unprovoked " words wouldn't go down well. 

The truth.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, Virt said:

You know I'm on Ukrainians side, but could there be a solution other than this meaningless war?

 

You as well want and ending to this.

What do you suggest?

 

Do you suggest they just keep on fighting and killing each other, while the rest of the world bleed financially as bystanders?

 

The experts now expect Russia to change tactics and will just start flattening the cities from distance before entering.

That will leave Ukraine as flat as Berlin in WW2.

 

Shouldn't we try and stop the war before it comes to this?

 

I say we, but if course it's Ukraines own decision what to do.

It's their country.

 

All i can do as a bystander is to support Ukraine financially which i did, but i wish it was possible to stop this war somehow.

 

We could off course just go full tilt and walk into WW3, but are we interested in that?

I'm all in for a stop of the war before it is to late! It will need give and take for both parts! Also admit that we in the west have governments that have fueled this crisis for to long, but at the same avoid Putin become a hero with his honor intact! 

 

At least hope there is someone behind Putin who is capable to step up and give Russia a new face.

 

For sure it's needed in Us to. 

 

Stoltenberg is soon out since his term is up, but who will replac him? Even he is just a tool, it means Alot he is capable to communicate in a good way. Stoltenberg have been to autonomous just repeating the script in a horrible English. 

 

To be true, we have pushed Putin in to the arms of Xi Jinping! Same as Castro was forced in to that's time Soviet union just to make a historical allignment.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

"Two weeks ago a peaceful Ukraine was harming no one, and folks were going about their quiet lives"

 

What?! Now I understand why people in this forum are siding with Ukraine. Nobody has a clue. Where do you get "peaceful Ukraine harming no one"...? Read on...

 

For nearly a decade, Ukraine has been waging a war of oppression against two Russian-majority provinces in the east. Those people, who don't want to be part of Ukraine, are being brutally quashed (look up "Azov Regiment"). Thousands have died in this conflict, which is by definition anti-democratic and therefore authoritarian, yet I don't see much reference to it in this thread. I guess it's one of those 'inconvenient truths' that everyone chooses to ignore because they've been fed the line in western media that Ukrainians = victims.

 

Information about the Donbass conflict is suppressed in the west because the west wants to keep Russia as a notional enemy according to Orwellian principles (it's necessary to have an enemy to distract from problems at home). Seems that everyone has fallen for it. The situation in Donbass needs resolving. If you don't pull a tooth that needs pulling you're in for a needless world of pain. Make no mistake, Russia has the moral high ground in trying to resolve this, but I guess you'll need to think for yourself to see it. Opinions on this thread that don't discuss the Donbass Russians are completely failing to address the issue.

 

As if the Donbass issue wasn't enough evidence of Ukrainian aggression, in November last year Ukraine signed a concord with NATO giving them the right to seek membership. A massive mistake by Ukraine and the west as it terrorizes Russia beyond acceptibility and was the last straw for them. After years of being vilified and threatened by everyone for no reason, even after the Cold War ended, they have given up on a diplomatic resolution and are dealing with the issue forcibly. If you treat someone like an enemy long enough, they'll become one. Nice going western diplomacy! They have basically caused this war with their blundering interference.

 

A humanitarian appeal: the more you support Ukraine in this, the more you are helping to drag on the agony for this region, and particularly for the Donbass Russians. The west haven't a clue as to how to deal with that - they are only making it worse, as they always do (cf Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya...). Let Russia resolve this once and for all, and only then can the region live peaceably. Yes, Ukraine will be a bit smaller on the map, but so what?

 

 

 

 

 

It's like Texas wanting to secede from the US. The argument is just as meaningless.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Virt said:

You know I'm on Ukrainians side, but could there be a solution other than this meaningless war?

 

You as well want and ending to this.

What do you suggest?

 

Do you suggest they just keep on fighting and killing each other, while the rest of the world bleed financially as bystanders?

 

The experts now expect Russia to change tactics and will just start flattening the cities from distance before entering.

That will leave Ukraine as flat as Berlin in WW2.

 

Shouldn't we try and stop the war before it comes to this?

 

I say we, but if course it's Ukraines own decision what to do.

It's their country.

 

All i can do as a bystander is to support Ukraine financially which i did, but i wish it was possible to stop this war somehow.

 

We could off course just go full tilt and walk into WW3, but are we interested in that?

We may not be interested but more than likely its already inevitable and indeed already begun.

[Virt]

17 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Only Zenelskyy can decide when this will end.

Russia won't stop and NATO are happy to keep feeding Ukraine weapons as long as he wants them.

True and it should only be Ukraines own choice what they decide.

No question about that....

 

I fully support Ukraine, but just hope there still is a way to end this and just shared some thoughts.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

It's like Texas wanting to secede from the US. The argument is just as meaningless.

Or Mexico wanting to reclaim California.

[Virt]

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The terms have been layed out by Russia I don't think they will move on those. 

Russias terms are not even close to something that Ukraine could accept.

[Chomper Higgot]

On 2/25/2022 at 2:14 PM, KhunLA said:

My understanding, from a wee bit of reading, (not watching MSM) that Putin & company are finally freeing the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic from any further bullying from Ukraine.

 

They've been thinking about independence ever since 2000, no benefit of being part of Ukraine any more, especally since events of 2014 and 2017, and they were turning points for them.

 

Unplug from MSM, and you may have a better understanding of the situation.

OK, I’m getting ready to follow your suggestion to unplug from MSM.

 

Now all I need is to hear where you get your news do I can join you.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

In negotiations the " illegal and  unprovoked " words wouldn't go down well. 

For those who have a problem with truth, yes you are probably correct.

 

 

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The terms have been layed out by Russia I don't think they will move on those. 

Putin can't afford to lose this war otherwise he's a dead man walking so obviously they won't compromise.

[sammieuk1]

43 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Latest ...

WASHINGTON-Wed, March 9, 2022, 4:21 AM (Reuters) -The United States rejected a surprise offer by NATO ally Poland on Tuesday to transfer its Russian-made MiG-29 fighter jets to a U.S. base in Germany as a way to replenish Ukraine's air force in its defense against invading Russian forces.

The United States has sought to speed weapons deliveries to Ukraine. But the prospect of flying combat aircraft from NATO territory into the war zone "raises serious concerns for the entire NATO alliance," the Pentagon said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-surprised-polands-decision-fighter-212131580.html

 

Heard Bidens bottom from here as the Mig hot potato dance starts ????

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Virt said:

Russias terms are not even close to something that Ukraine could accept.

Exactly. Lets face it, Zenelskyy has already said he's not giving up, only yesterday quoting words from "Winston Churchill" to the UK parliament. So we are back to square one, both sides not budging and no hope yet of any meaningful peace talks to end this, even with Macron doing his best with direct talks with Putin came up with zero.

 

In any case why on earth should it be Ukraine that gives up, ridiculous to even make that suggestion, just gives the world the sign that any country can go and invade another just because they are stronger.

 

To be honest I think the best we can hope for at this stage is for those that need to flee (over 2 million so far with 800,000 of those being children) be allowed to do so and those that remain because of choice as I would if I was Ukrainian to stay and fight or support where possible.

 

Puitn's idea that this would be over in a couple of days has vanished into the reality that his army has performed poorly and met huge patriotic resistance. Unfortunately because of sheer numbers he can still go a long way and flatten Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Happening now. Source

 

Loud series of explosions heard from Kyiv and surrounding area right now. Kyiv city just put out another siren alert to seek shelter immediately. The explosions have been incessant for three minutes.

 

Still going but with bigger gaps in between. This is the grim soundtrack to the lives of millions of Ukrainians. Each blast, roar, tremble of earth brings horrific questions to mind. Who is on the receiving end of this? What has it done to them? Is it going to come here next?

[steven100]

17 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Heard Bidens bottom from here as the Mig hot potato dance starts ????

Biden ...... doing everything he can to NOT assist Ukraine .   

[Virt]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/iaea-loses-contact-with-safeguards-monitoring-systems-chernobyl-2022-03-08/

 

Hopefully it's just a glitch and not something to be worried for.

Would be a stupid thing to use Chernobyl as a weapon since the fallout would reach Russia and Belarus too.

[Bkk Brian]

This all helps with volunteers many ex military from all over the world, over 20,000 already.

 

Foreign volunteers will be able to obtain Ukrainian citizenship if they want to, First Deputy Interior Minister Yevhen Yenin said on March 9. Twenty thousand foreign volunteers have joined Ukrainian forces to fight Russia since March 6.

[farmerjo]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This all helps with volunteers many ex military from all over the world, over 20,000 already.

 

Foreign volunteers will be able to obtain Ukrainian citizenship if they want to, First Deputy Interior Minister Yevhen Yenin said on March 9. Twenty thousand foreign volunteers have joined Ukrainian forces to fight Russia since March 6.

i'm happy for that but typical misleading wording.

They are paid mercenaries,why not just say it.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

i'm happy for that but typical misleading wording.

They are paid mercenaries,why not just say it.

As opposed to paid soldiers, yes?  

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

i'm happy for that but typical misleading wording.

They are paid mercenaries,why not just say it.

I'm saying what reported thats why. Only Ukraine residents that have offered to fight are getting paid, can you link me to any report that says overseas volunteers are getting paid other than basic food expenses etc? These are not all fighters either, there are medical personal and other requirement that have volunteered.

 

Also required:

Surgeons (esp. Trauma)

Anesthesiologists

Paramedics/Nurses/Physician assistants (especially those with military medical training or those who speak Russian/Ukrainian)

[anyone]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/china-demands-answers-from-us-for-26-biolabs-in-ukraine-/2528207

is it Covid20?..

[farmerjo]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I'm saying what reported thats why. Only Ukraine residents that have offered to fight are getting paid, can you link me to any report that says overseas volunteers are getting paid other than basic food expenses etc? These are not all fighters either, there are medical personal and other requirement that have volunteered.

 

Also required:

Surgeons (esp. Trauma)

Anesthesiologists

Paramedics/Nurses/Physician assistants (especially those with military medical training or those who speak Russian/Ukrainian)

i was not having a dig at you as you only provide the link,my apologies.

There is an article in the times uk but you need subscription to read the whole article.

 Up to $60,000/month with the right qualifications.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

i'm happy for that but typical misleading wording.

They are paid mercenaries,why not just say it.

If they are paid mercenaries.

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

"Two weeks ago a peaceful Ukraine was harming no one, and folks were going about their quiet lives"

 

What?! Now I understand why people in this forum are siding with Ukraine. Nobody has a clue. Where do you get "peaceful Ukraine harming no one"...? Read on...

 

For nearly a decade, Ukraine has been waging a war of oppression against two Russian-majority provinces in the east. Those people, who don't want to be part of Ukraine, are being brutally quashed (look up "Azov Regiment"). Thousands have died in this conflict, which is by definition anti-democratic and therefore authoritarian, yet I don't see much reference to it in this thread. I guess it's one of those 'inconvenient truths' that everyone chooses to ignore because they've been fed the line in western media that Ukrainians = victims.

 

Information about the Donbass conflict is suppressed in the west because the west wants to keep Russia as a notional enemy according to Orwellian principles (it's necessary to have an enemy to distract from problems at home). Seems that everyone has fallen for it. The situation in Donbass needs resolving. If you don't pull a tooth that needs pulling you're in for a needless world of pain. Make no mistake, Russia has the moral high ground in trying to resolve this, but I guess you'll need to think for yourself to see it. Opinions on this thread that don't discuss the Donbass Russians are completely failing to address the issue.

 

As if the Donbass issue wasn't enough evidence of Ukrainian aggression, in November last year Ukraine signed a concord with NATO giving them the right to seek membership. A massive mistake by Ukraine and the west as it terrorizes Russia beyond acceptibility and was the last straw for them. After years of being vilified and threatened by everyone for no reason, even after the Cold War ended, they have given up on a diplomatic resolution and are dealing with the issue forcibly. If you treat someone like an enemy long enough, they'll become one. Nice going western diplomacy! They have basically caused this war with their blundering interference.

 

A humanitarian appeal: the more you support Ukraine in this, the more you are helping to drag on the agony for this region, and particularly for the Donbass Russians. The west haven't a clue as to how to deal with that - they are only making it worse, as they always do (cf Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya...). Let Russia resolve this once and for all, and only then can the region live peaceably. Yes, Ukraine will be a bit smaller on the map, but so what?

 

 

 

 

 

Most people in this forum are siding with Ukraine now because of what is happening today and the fact that they are not Russian. 

 

A far as the Donbass region goes, it depends what you read. It seems that some wrong-doing may have come from both sides. But as there has been fighting there, it is obvious that there is no majority desire for independence.

 

Any "Russian-majority" in these provinces is only marginal and not total because it seems there are large groups of Ukrainians and Slavs who do not want Russian control and together they are the majority. Thousands have died since 2014 but that is a result of some Ukrainian action but also direct Russian interference and assistance, which is also anti-democratic and also illegal - there has been little reference to it in this thread, either. 

 

Information about the Donbass conflict is not really suppressed in the west but it is certainly different to that available from pro Russian sources. However, at the moment, Russia has lost any moral high ground it may have had as far as the west is concerned, due to the scale and violence of this invasion. 

 

I agree that NATO and the EU should have played the Ukrainian membership possibilities down (at lest delayed them) but to say that Russia has been terrorized seems so ironic and ridiculous after these last two weeks.

 

Who has vilified and threatened Russia before this brutal invasion?? Your appeal is not appealing.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, anyone said:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/china-demands-answers-from-us-for-26-biolabs-in-ukraine-/2528207

is it Covid20?..

It can be a food spin off from the real tragedy, the war and reasons for the war. As said before, we havent seen the worst yet. 
 

Most likely just another legal lab that cooperate with all of the worlds leading experts on viruses and other desisis that can harm us. But propaganda vise we have seen it used with succes to create doubt and suspicion against leading immunolog and world profiled Fauci for an instance, who was connected to the wuhan lab. 
 

Not surprised at all

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, anyone said:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/china-demands-answers-from-us-for-26-biolabs-in-ukraine-/2528207

is it Covid20?..

Conspiracy theory nonsense. China the only country that has embedded reporters in Ukraine with the Russian forces

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-08/china-pushes-russia-conspiracy-theory-about-u-s-labs-in-ukraine

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/25/fact-check-claim-us-biolabs-ukraine-disinformation/6937923001/

 

https://interestingengineering.com/fact-check-ukraine-biolabs

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/25/tweets/there-are-no-us-run-biolabs-ukraine-contrary-socia/