Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Let me put it this way: what would you do if your neighbor kicked in the door to your house, shot your son, raped your wife and daughter, and told you this was his house now, and that you could still live there, but just in one room, and keep quiet, and you had to pay him rent and do everything that he told you to do? Would you accept that? Or would you try to kick the b@stard out of your house, no matter what? 

I know what I would do, I'll be interested to see how Kwasaki has to say.

Pacifism is fine when it is on the behalf of other people.

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So if no weapons are sent and the Ukrainian soldiers ‘stay alive and fight another day’.

 

What are they going to fight with?

Insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan turned IED's into an art form. They even attached dead dogs to the explosives, so that soldiers who were not killed in the detonation had long-lasting bacterial infections from their injuries.

I don't think Ukrainians are slow learners, they will find ways to make life miserable for the Russians.

Unless Putin can assert control over social media, he runs the risk of his own countrymen turning on him.

Mussolini, Ceausescu, Gaddafi, Pahlavi, Hussein. That's the nightmare of all tyrants.

[pagallim]

Latest on the 'Swift' option:

 

"Russia being locked out of the Swift financial payments network has become more likely after Cyprus agreed with the proposal.

 

There has been calls for them to be shut out of the system which facilitates cross-border payments. It is thought that doing so will increase pressure on Russian businesses and its economy.

 

The move was announced on Twitter by the Ukrainian foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba, who has also spoken to Italy, Germany and Belgium – where Swift is based. While a smaller European nation, Cyprus’ backing is significant because it is a major destination for Russian investment."

[pagallim]

On 2/26/2022 at 1:43 AM, Lacessit said:

Unless Putin can assert control over social media, he runs the risk of his own countrymen turning on him.

Mussolini, Ceausescu, Gaddafi, Pahlavi, Hussein. That's the nightmare of all tyrants.

The media clampdown has already started in Russia:

 

"Local media in Russia has been warned over its coverage of the invasion, with threats to block access to their websites.

 

The communications regulator Roskomnadzor accused 10 outlets on Saturday of falsely depicting what Russia calls a special military operation in Ukraine, and publishing false information.

 

It censured them for referring to it as an “attack, invasion, or a declaration of war”, and said the government would stop access if this continues. Fines of up to 5m roubles are also possible."

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/26/russian-regulator-warns-local-media-over-coverage-ukraine-war

 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, pagallim said:

The media clampdown has already started in Russia:

 

"Local media in Russia has been warned over its coverage of the invasion, with threats to block access to their websites.

 

The communications regulator Roskomnadzor accused 10 outlets on Saturday of falsely depicting what Russia calls a special military operation in Ukraine, and publishing false information.

 

It censured them for referring to it as an “attack, invasion, or a declaration of war”, and said the government would stop access if this continues. Fines of up to 5m roubles are also possible."

Churchill: " A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets a chance to put its pants on."

 

"Special military operation." I suppose the body bags coming back to Russia will be called noble sacrifices.

[Kwasaki]

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It makes me think the Ukrainians will keep on fighting even after any surrender, what about you?

 

I think you right which will be sad I  just feel that's the case they don't care about peace. 

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Let me put it this way: what would you do if your neighbor kicked in the door to your house, shot your son, raped your wife and daughter, and told you this was his house now, and that you could still live there, but just in one room, and keep quiet, and you had to pay him rent and do everything that he told you to do? Would you accept that? Or would you try to kick the b@stard out of your house, no matter what? 

I understand but hardly the same situation or example in this case. 

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, pagallim said:

This from the Ukranian General Staff spokeperson:

 

"Russian occupants are suffering great losses. There are thousands of their corpses on Ukrainian soil. Request to the International Committee of the Red Cross International Committee of the Red Cross to help with transportation."

Do you believe it, I will say I don't. 

[pagallim]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Do you believe it, I will say I don't. 

No I don't, at least not the 'thousands'.   Propoganda game being played by both sides with the aim of weakening morale.   The Ukrainian President went onto TV this morning to refute claims that he fled the country and ordered all of the Ukrainian military to lay down their arms.

[Bkk Brian]

57 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What does that make you think. 

Makes me think that despite the overwhelming might of the Russian invaders the Ukrainians will continue to display bravery and heroism in defending their own land from the dictator Putin.

[EricTh]

It's just a matter of time that Ukraine will be taken given that Russia is a superpower at least militarily.

 

There's no way that Ukraine is going to win the war without the intervention from NATO or USA militarily.  Financial sanctions from the west won't help much if China is still buying from Russia.

[tgw]

20 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I think you right which will be sad I  just feel that's the case they don't care about peace. 

you take "blaming the victim" to an entirely new level.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, EricTh said:

It's just a matter of time that Ukraine will be taken given that Russia is a superpower at least militarily.

 

There's no way that Ukraine is going to win the war without the intervention from NATO or USA militarily.  Financial sanctions from the west won't help much if China is still buying from Russia.

Of course as we all know that this will not happen as it would lead directly to W3 if Nato got involved so they are deliberately avoiding that, Putin knows this and taking advantage of that reality.

 

However while the Russians will overwhelm Ukraine, that does not mean they will win. Urban warfare is ugly and can be prolonged, it favours the defenders but there will be many lives lost. The resistance can go on for many months.

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I don't think Russia will stop, and I don't think the average Russian is aware of what Putin's mania is going to cost by way of body bags.

It's pretty obvious why China is staying out, if Putin is successful that gives the CCP a ticket to Taiwan.

On the contrary.

 

The USA will feel compelled to restore its credibility.

 

Thus China wil not attempt an invasion which, contested by the USA and its allies, would surely fail.

 

 

 

 

[Enoon]

16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Of course as we all know that this will not happen as it would lead directly to W3 if Nato got involved so they are deliberately avoiding that, Putin knows this and taking advantage of that reality.

 

However while the Russians will overwhelm Ukraine, that does not mean they will win. Urban warfare is ugly and can be prolonged, it favours the defenders but there will be many lives lost. The resistance can go on for many months.

 

Conflict within the borders of the Ukraine will not lead to WW3

 

NATO are not involved because they are in disarray and confusion, playing by the rules that were designed to convince the USSR that NATO was not a coalition made in order to invade it.

 

Nobody is going to press the button while the conflict remains in Ukraine, and stops once Putin is ejected.......which would mark the end of his territorial ambition.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Enoon

[Jingthing]

33 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I think you right which will be sad I  just feel that's the case they don't care about peace. 

They care about not being Putin's slaves. 

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I think you right which will be sad I  just feel that's the case they don't care about peace. 

Perhaps they care about their freedom and their nation more than ‘peace under a Russian jackboot’.

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Conflict within the borders of the Ukraine will not lead to WW3

 

NATO are not involved because they are in disarray and confusion, playing by the rules that were designed to convince the USSR that NATO was not a coalition made in order to invade it.

 

Nobody is going to press the button while the conflict remains in Ukraine, and stops once Putin is ejected.......which would mark the end of his territorial ambition.

 

 

Please re read my post, I said it would lead to WW3 if NATO got involved, by that I mean if they actaully stepped foot into Ukraine to support its defense. Its a view shared just now by Sir Richard Shirreff, ex-deputy supreme commander of NATO who was just interviewed on the BBC.

 

If you think Putin's ambitions are to stop in Ukraine you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Putin is bent on restoring the USSR

Edited February 26, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Lacessit]

39 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I understand but hardly the same situation or example in this case. 

Explain the difference for our benefit, please. I am interested in seeing how far semantics can be stretched.

[rudi49jr]

51 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I think you right which will be sad I  just feel that's the case they don't care about peace. 

It’s pretty obvious the Russians are the aggressors, and they don’t give a toss about peace. Ukraine is only defending their country and sovereignty.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

It’s pretty obvious the Russians are the aggressors, and they don’t give a toss about peace. Ukraine is only defending their country and sovereignty.

Yes Putin would much rather totally destroy Ukraine than allow them to continue on their already mature path towards western democracy. Ukrainians get it. This is about their very existence.

[tgw]

42 minutes ago, pagallim said:

No I don't, at least not the 'thousands'.   Propoganda game being played by both sides with the aim of weakening morale.   The Ukrainian President went onto TV this morning to refute claims that he fled the country and ordered all of the Ukrainian military to lay down their arms.

"thousands" of Russian soldiers dead is very likely.

this morning, the announced number was 3500 Russians dead. the two shot down Iliyushin paratrooper transports already contribute 250 bodies.

 

I think that the Ukrainian military was prepared for attack. they were informed of Russian plans and troop movements in advance and they had received numerous man portable armaments in the months and weeks before the attack.

Placing units equipped with portable anti-aircraft weapons around airstrips that could have received Russian troop transport planes was a no brainer.

I wonder if they had time to mine bridges.

 

if we apply the usual dead to wounded ratio of 3 or 4, we could estimate the 3500 dead mean around 10.000 to 15.000 wounded.

 

to put things in perspective, the Soviet war in Afghanistan cost them 15.000 dead per YEAR.

[Jingthing]

All the dead on both sides are due to Putin's choice.

He will be remembered not as Putin the Great but as Putin the Evil.

Hopefully and indeed probably he has set up his own destruction.

[tgw]

 

Quote

 

We don't need diplomatic ties with West - Medvedev

Russia's former President Dmitry Medvedev says Moscow doesn't need diplomatic ties with the West.

It follows a wave of sanctions on Russia announced by Western countries.

Mr Medvedev, who was sacked as prime minister by Vladimir Putin in 2020 and now serves as deputy chair of Moscow's security council, wrote on the Russian social media network VK that it is time to "padlock the embassies".

He said Moscow will continue its invasion of Ukraine until it achieved goals defined by President Vladimir Putin. It is unclear what Mr Putin's exact objectives are.

Mr Medvedev also condemned Russia's suspension from the Council of Europe, but boasted that it offered Moscow an opportunity to restore the death penalty to Russian law.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60517447

 

it looks like the crazy ivans want to emulate and be best friends with North Korea's "rocket boy"

 

 

[Enoon]

31 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Please re read my post, I said it would lead to WW3 if NATO got involved, by that I mean if they actaully stepped foot into Ukraine to support its defense. Its a view shared just now by Sir Richard Shirreff, ex-deputy supreme commander of NATO who was just interviewed on the BBC.

 

If you think Putin's ambitions are to stop in Ukraine you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Putin is bent on restoring the USSR

1.     No WW3 with NATO troops in the Ukraine and they do not move beyond it.

 

The likelihood does not exist until a lot further down the line and would need, at the absolute minimum, much further Incursion into territory that has been previously been agreed as Russian sovereign territory......you seem ( and many others) to think that world leaders and their chiefs of staff are just itching to "drop the big one now".

 

2.     Perhaps my previous post was poorly worded.

 

Try this:

 

Putin will not stop unless he is booted out of Ukraine.

 

And, just for good measure, he wants all the Old Russian Imperial Empire back.

 

Not just the USSR......he wants a huge chunk of pre-WW1 Poland as well.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Enoon

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Thailand said:

I don't think all the sanctions in the world and harsh words will stop Xi when he finally makes the decision to take Taiwan and the USA and their allies will do exactly what?

War. 

[Lacessit]

Just now, Thailand said:

I don't think all the sanctions in the world and harsh words will stop Xi when he finally makes the decision to take Taiwan and the USA and their allies will do exactly what?

Thailand is an island, amphibious transport is required to invade. America has the biggest and best-equipped submarine fleet in the world, it's a no-brainer what those subs would be doing.

[tgw]

I just saw a video where a group of Russian soldiers has been stopped, they had been using a civilian van marked "TV"

 

https://www.facebook.com/UkrainianLandForces/videos/932825467433787

[2009]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:40 AM, tomazbodner said:

Challenge is how do you get out of it? Putin was long threatening action if NATO expands further East and Ukraine was his main target.

A bit too late now.

 

NATO had 30 years to dismantle after the Soviet Union fell.

 

Impossible to live in peace with Russia while NATO continued to expand closer to it.

 

Ironically, NATO was meant to keep people safe from Russia, but really it just created tension after the fall of the Soviet Empire.

 

And the cheek that NATO does nothing now after it caused Ukraine to be invaded. They should have known better to keep Ukraine neutral.

 

 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Virt said:

Ukraine is quite a large country, and even if the Russian aggressors succeed in taking Kiev,

it will be a difficult task to maintain that control.

 

Millions of weapons amongst the civilians and they are not afraid of using them.

The civilians will be able to kill a lot of Russian soldiers on daily basis,

until they run out of Russians to kill or run out of weapons.

 

So the west has to maintain the weapon deliveries to Ukraine for them to stand a fighting chance,

until the sanctions hopefully hurt Russia so much they have no other option than to back off.

 

How many Russian lives are Putin willing to risk?

So far the causalities are probably way higher than he thought it would be.

 

Huge respect to the Ukrainian people that fight to maintain their democracy and freedom.

 

 

Hopefully, the sacrifices will be absolutely punishing for the dictator. One can only hope for a humiliating outcome. He is a desperado and one of the world's most dangerous men. He is putting his boys and alot of innocents at great risk. 

 

Wish he was man enough to march in himself. PR photos are the extent of the bravado of this coward.