The REAL EV vehicle discussion thread.....

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

For anyone thinking about buying electric

Electric Vehicle Range Testing:UNDERSTANDING NEDC VS. WLTP VS. EPA

 

NEDC vs. WLTP: Which is More Accurate?

In Europe, the NEDC was established in the 1980s and was last updated in 1997. In addition to being old and outdated

These changes make the WLTP more accurate, with EV range estimates approximately 10% higher than what Europeans experience. Compare that to the NEDC’s tendency to overestimate by 25% to 30%, and you’ll understand why the WLTP is more trustworthy.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/electric-vehicle-range-testing-understanding-nedc-vs-wltp-vs-epa

 

Jaguar Thailand uses the WLTP testing  and explains the reason why here

The new tests are designed to better reflect current engine technology. NEDC was last updated in 1997, when the first generation of modern hybrid vehicles became widely available. Two decades later and — in addition to PHEV and MHEV vehicles — electric vehicles, like our own Jaguar I‑PACE, are on the roads. The tests for NEDC were not designed for these kinds of vehicles, WLTP addresses that.

https://www.jaguar.co.th/owners-wltp

Understood and myself well aware of that info, and have posted the same myself, as a heads up to others.

 

99% of our driving with be knocking around town, within those speeds.  So those numbers will be very accurate, as other owners of EVs have stated, and happy with their performance & range.

 

If lots of highway driving at speed, EVs & ICEs both suffer greatly on energy efficiency.  If one is truly worried about range, get a Celerio, 20 kpL, and 700 kms per fill up ????

[billd766]

5 minutes ago, SomchaiDIY said:

Cars already computer on wheels for many years 

 

All car tech now use scan tool and logic list to find fault at complex engine controls

 

ev car same all info on can bus for scan tool read
 

Not actually correct as there are thousands and perhaps and perhaps millions of older vehicles on the roads that when you lift the bonnet you can see all of the engine parts with not a computer socket in sight.

 

Newer vehicle all you can see is a big piece of plastic, the dipstick, screen wash etc and the computer socket.

[vinci]

On 6/26/2022 at 10:45 AM, Kwasaki said:

The only battery I like is under my motorbike seat and the one under my truck bonnet, l'm glad I have lived in the petrolhead era. 

amen to that!

[transam]

15 minutes ago, SomchaiDIY said:

Cars already computer on wheels for many years 

 

All car tech now use scan tool and logic list to find fault at complex engine controls

 

ev car same all info on can bus for scan tool read
 

Try again please....????

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not seeing much of a difference, if safety is one of the primary concerns:

I assume you understand that you are posting about vehicles that have been tested by Euro Ncap and not vehicles that have been tested by ASEAN NCAP

Only the MG 3 and MG ZS have been tested by ASEAN NCAP and Mazda CX-5 has not been tested by ASEAN NCAP

New Car Assessment Program for Southeast Asian Countries (ASEAN NCAP), a new addition to the NCAP family, is targeted to elevate vehicle safety standards, raise consumer awareness and thus encourage a market for safer vehicles in the region.

https://aseancap.org/v2/

[SomchaiDIY]

11 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Not really. You may think they are but they are not. In part yes but not to the extent an EV is. Do you really believe the technicians that are currently working on vehicles will have the capability of analysing the system? You are dreaming if you think that.

Car tech are working with complex driver warning and control system ev system is no problem from them

 

I speak often with nissan car tech near our factory the ev control  is no problem compare to ice system

 

Big problem for them is park control and many sensor in this system

[SomchaiDIY]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Try again please....????

The english is not good ??

[SomchaiDIY]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Try again please....????

Which part to try again can help ??

[transam]

You want a cheap EV pick-up, well here it is, a Chang too.......????

 

 

[transam]

Just now, SomchaiDIY said:

Which part to try again can help ??

Sorry, I didn't understand the post...????

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I assume you understand that you are posting about vehicles that have been tested by Euro Ncap and not vehicles that have been tested by ASEAN NCAP

Only the MG 3 and MG ZS have been tested by ASEAN NCAP and Mazda CX-5 has not been tested by ASEAN NCAP

New Car Assessment Program for Southeast Asian Countries (ASEAN NCAP), a new addition to the NCAP family, is targeted to elevate vehicle safety standards, raise consumer awareness and thus encourage a market for safer vehicles in the region.

https://aseancap.org/v2/

Quick search, that's all I could find, or cared / bothered to.  Have yet to need a seat belt or airbag in 50 yrs of driving.  I trust my defensive driving skills and they have served me well.

[SomchaiDIY]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Sorry, I didn't understand the post...????

Here is post you ask me try again what is not easy to understand in this

Cars already computer on wheels for many years 

All car tech now use scan tool and logic list to find fault at complex engine controls

ev car same all info on can bus for scan tool read
 

[1FinickyOne]

On 6/26/2022 at 10:17 AM, transam said:

is the value of the car going to be carp

sounds fishy to me...

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

You want a cheap EV pick-up, well here it is, a Chang too.......????

 

 

Thailand actually puts one out, if you want to stay on topic ... ????

https://takanoauto.co.th/index

[transam]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Quick search, that's all I could find, or cared / bothered to.  Have yet to need a seat belt or airbag in 50 yrs of driving.  I trust my defensive driving skills and they have served me well.

There's a lot of folk in boxes that thought like you....????

[transam]

7 minutes ago, SomchaiDIY said:

Here is post you ask me try again what is not easy to understand in this

Cars already computer on wheels for many years 

All car tech now use scan tool and logic list to find fault at complex engine controls

ev car same all info on can bus for scan tool read
 

Thank you, still didn't understand the last bit though..

"Info on can bus tool read"...

[transam]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Thailand actually puts one out, if you want to stay on topic ... ????

https://takanoauto.co.th/index

Hmmm, top speed of under 40mph is a bit of a bummer though...

How much is it..? 

[SomchaiDIY]

Just now, transam said:

Thank you, still didn't understand the last bit though..

"Info on can bus tool read"...

car can bus can carry info from many module and share info in system

 

Example crank or cam sensor tell computer when is good to signal ignition driver using can bus to send info

 

ev car can use same can bus network to share info about battery and ev motor control module and more

 

car tech scan tool can read these info data and fault code store in computer memory

 

tech uses scan tool data to find fault in system then maybe add new part or module

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Hmmm, top speed of under 40mph is a bit of a bummer though...

How much is it..? 

Don't know, don't care, as no interest, though sure if you ask, Google will tell you.

[Jai Dee]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Thank you, still didn't understand the last bit though..

"Info on can bus tool read"...

CAN bus

[SomchaiDIY]

36 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Not actually correct as there are thousands and perhaps and perhaps millions of older vehicles on the roads that when you lift the bonnet you can see all of the engine parts with not a computer socket in sight.

 

Newer vehicle all you can see is a big piece of plastic, the dipstick, screen wash etc and the computer socket.

network control system on car can go back to 1990 possible before

 

but old car without computer is not subject in this topic area

 

my answer in this topic of ev car was to show how modern car tech has no problem to understand ev computer system

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I'm a bit suspect of that offer.  If it sounds too good ..... 

Besides, I'd take the MG EP over the Leaf any day, cheaper,

and 25% larger battery.  Rest of specs seem about the same.

 

16 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Quick search, that's all I could find, or cared / bothered to.  Have yet to need a seat belt or airbag in 50 yrs of driving.  I trust my defensive driving skills and they have served me well.

It would appear you not  really into detailed data

This EV database states that the MG 50.3 kWh Battery only 46.0 kWh is useable whiile the Nissan Leaf 40.0 kWh Battery has an useable figure of  39.0 kWh which would indicated that the MG only has a 11.8% larger useable battery than the Nissan leaf not the 25% that you have stated

https://ev-database.org/car/1646/MG-MG5-Electric-Standard-Range

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

 

It would appear you not  really into detailed data

This EV database states that the MG 50.3 kWh Battery only 46.0 kWh is useable whiile the Nissan Leaf 40.0 kWh Battery has an useable figure of  39.0 kWh which would indicated that the MG only has a 11.8% larger useable battery than the Nissan leaf not the 25% that you have stated

https://ev-database.org/car/1646/MG-MG5-Electric-Standard-Range

 

Thanks for pointing that out.  With the extra money saved by buying the MG with still more useable battery, maybe buy another and have his & her EPs in the driveway.  Or a MG truck & a motorcycle.   

 

Better yet, practical me, a solar system (mine cost 345K), and still have 400k left in the pocket, AND .... free at home charging & no monthly electric  bills from PEA.   Can it get any better.

 

I really can think of a lot better things to spend 729k on, instead of a same spec'd vehicle as MG.

 

Choices ... those would, actually are mine.  Others may go a different route.  And I'm happy for them, if they are.  It's a beautiful world.

 

For clarity, went with the ZS, not the EP, so only have 549k extra in the pocket to play with.

 

ZS - 955K

SS - 345k

1,300,000 vs 1,500,000 for Leaf

 

200k in pocket & free electric for house & car ????

 

Current PEA bill is 3k a month 

3k  X 8yrs = 288k

4k  X 8yrs = 384k

5k  X 8yrs = 480k

Not buying the Leaf would turn out to be a great investment.  IMHO

[transam]

1 hour ago, Jai Dee said:

CAN bus

Oh, thank you....????

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Thanks for pointing that out.  With the extra money saved by buying the MG with still more useable battery, maybe buy another and have his & her EPs in the driveway.  Or a MG truck & a motorcycle.   

 

Better yet, practical me, a solar system (mine cost 345K), and still have 400k left in the pocket, AND .... free at home charging & no monthly electric  bills from PEA.   Can it get any better.

 

I really can think of a lot better things to spend 729k on, instead of a same spec'd vehicle as MG.

 

Choices ... those would, actually are mine.  Others may go a different route.  And I'm happy for them, if they are.  It's a beautiful world.

 

For clarity, went with the ZS, not the EP, so only have 549k extra in the pocket to play with.

 

ZS - 955K

SS - 345k

1,300,000 vs 1,500,000 for Leaf

 

200k in pocket & free electric for house & car ????

 

Current PEA bill is 3k a month 

3k  X 8yrs = 288k

4k  X 8yrs = 384k

5k  X 8yrs = 480k

Not buying the Leaf would turn out to be a great investment.  IMHO

Each to their own, Personally I would have paid the extra 130,000 baht and gone for the leaf

I See that MG Thailand is quoting a range of 403 Km using the NEDC standard of testing

Which is Strange that MG UK is quoting a range of 318km usiing the WLTP standard of testing same battery 51.1 kWh Battery Useable4 9.0 kWh

https://www.mg.co.uk/new-cars/new-mg-zs-ev

Which is very similar to the EV vehicle database site which states a range of 320 km using WLTP

However they state that the real range is 270km 

https://ev-database.org/car/1540/MG-ZS-EV-Standard-Range

[stoner]

On 6/26/2022 at 10:42 AM, transam said:

So I wonder about the EV batteries and quality.

there is a company called sol naga agro - energy collective working on an interesting hemp graphene concept for batteries. 

 

soon enough production costs will drop drastically. 

 

currently n-doped graphene costs around 1.2 million usd per kilo. using hemp will drop the cost down to 3000usd

[KhunLA]

38 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Each to their own, Personally I would have paid the extra 130,000 baht and gone for the leaf

I See that MG Thailand is quoting a range of 403 Km using the NEDC standard of testing

Which is Strange that MG UK is quoting a range of 318km usiing the WLTP standard of testing same battery 51.1 kWh Battery Useable4 9.0 kWh

https://www.mg.co.uk/new-cars/new-mg-zs-ev

Which is very similar to the EV vehicle database site which states a range of 320 km using WLTP

However they state that the real range is 270km 

https://ev-database.org/car/1540/MG-ZS-EV-Standard-Range

You do realize that WLTP & NEDC test at different speeds, 47 & 34 respectfully, if memory serves.  And as I stated, those having MGs here, are getting those numbers +/- 'around town'. 

 

Those #s match my driving style around town, so I expect to get very close to them.  All I need is a bit < 300 km, to visit daughter in Krung Thep, as 3-4 hrs on the road per day is more than enough for us.

 

I'm in no hurry to go anywhere.

 

Leaf is 545k more than the MG ZS. 955k vs 1.499m.

 

https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/the-wltp-a-standard-that-car-drivers-can-understand/#:~:text=The average speed during WLTP,are adapted to each vehicle

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You do realize that WLTP & NEDC test at different speeds, 47 & 37 respectfully, if memory serves.  And as I stated, whose having MGs here, are getting those numbers, 'around town'.  

 

Leaf is 545k more than the MG ZS. 955k vs 1.499m.

Most people when they are looking how many km they can travel look  at combined figures be it electric/petrol/diesel 

I have already shown you where you can puchased a brand new leaf for 1,085,000 baht to difference between Leaf and MG ZS is 130,000 baht

The old lab test – called the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC)  was designed in the 1980s.

While the old NEDC test determined test values based on a theoretical driving profile, the WLTP cycle was developed using real-driving data, gathered from around the world. WLTP therefore better represents everyday driving profiles.

https://www.wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Most people when they are looking how many km they can travel look  at combined figures be it electric/petrol/diesel 

I have already shown you where you can puchased a brand new leaf for 1,085,000 baht to difference between Leaf and MG ZS is 130,000 baht

The old lab test – called the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC)  was designed in the 1980s.

While the old NEDC test determined test values based on a theoretical driving profile, the WLTP cycle was developed using real-driving data, gathered from around the world. WLTP therefore better represents everyday driving profiles.

https://www.wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/

I wouldn't buy  brand new Leaf ... period.  Especially if not from an Nissan dealer, not matter what the discount.

 

I wouldn't buy any new car unless from manufacturer showroom.

 

I've been researching EVs for a long time, and I don't think anyone can tell me anything I don't already know.  Research is over and ZS on order a while ago.

 

That decision is not going to change, as there is nothing available in TH that interests me, and I've just about seen everything, that did peak my interest.

 

Already own a ZS, so there will be no surprises.

[vinny41]

51 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You do realize that WLTP & NEDC test at different speeds, 47 & 34 respectfully, if memory serves.  And as I stated, those having MGs here, are getting those numbers +/- 'around town'. 

 

Those #s match my driving style around town, so I expect to get very close to them.  All I need is a bit < 300 km, to visit daughter in Krung Thep, as 3-4 hrs on the road per day is more than enough for us.

 

I'm in no hurry to go anywhere.

 

Leaf is 545k more than the MG ZS. 955k vs 1.499m.

 

https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/news/the-wltp-a-standard-that-car-drivers-can-understand/#:~:text=The average speed during WLTP,are adapted to each vehicle

From the link that you provided

The WLTP cycle, which is much more realistic than the NEDC, includes as many actual driving conditions as possible: urban, suburban, and a combination of the two. For electric vehicles, for example, a car with a range of 400 km according to the NEDC has a range of only slightly over 300 km according to the WLTP.

 

So if you want to know how far you can travel before you need to charge you use WLTP