British tourist on honeymoon in Phuket and Thai tourist who went to help him drown - they ignored red flags

[LookMoo]

6 hours ago, kcpattaya said:

What a nonsense!
...They survive perhaps 30 seconds longer before any rip current will drag them down

Nature is stronger than Human. Its better to go with the flow and swim back at another point. Usually this process takes 15-30 min.

[MrJ2U]

8 hours ago, carvets said:

Its not nonsense. Rips generally dont drag you down they drag you out . A strong swimmer will know to swim across a rip . Poor swimmers will try to swim against the rip , get tired , panic and drown under the waves or drown from exhaustion if no help arrives .  

A lot of times its the undertows.  Frightening and exhausting.  A combination of both can have dire consequences. 

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Why do you think a 4 year old article has any relevance to the present situation?

They haven't hired extra lifeguards during the pandemic.  

 

Hello! 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by MrJ2U

[NRGF]

If you have been warned by a lifeguard not to swim but are determined to do it you would look for a spot away from the lifeguards. 

[MrJ2U]

16 minutes ago, NRGF said:

If you have been warned by a lifeguard not to swim but are determined to do it you would look for a spot away from the lifeguards. 

Interesting advice. 

[Tropposurfer]

RIP fellas and bravery recognition to the man who ran into the water and gave his won life trying to save another.

 

Its not the guards fault the first guy died, you can't stop people from taking responsibility and doing what they do. The second drowning may, may have been avoidable if he indeed tried to entered the water to save the other fella if guards sped to the spot and he hadn't needed to go in after the other fella. 

 

I've watched Phuket lifeguards closely for the last 3 years as a resident here, and on my previous holiday times to the island.

 

I've saved a handful of people here before the guards even knew they were drowning by the way.

 

As a veteran volunteer lifeguard on Australia's east coast for about 25 years, and a very experienced surfer for 50 years I conclude that Thai lifeguards are (as a general rule) poorly trained, poorly equipped (often without a functioning quality jet-ski on the beach at all!), with sparse re-training, and all but no practice in the use of their equipment in challenging conditions, or the pressure (life saving) surf situations.

They're beach-stations are often all-but off the beach (far from the water) with no halfway stations between this and the water.

 

Often they're just not physically water fit enough for rough water rescue i.e. quite poor ocean swimmers themselves. Add to this slow to arrive ambulance backup, and no dedicated paramedic air rescue system and we see the result. 

I say mindfully; they do the best they can with what they have. I understand they try to do a sincere job especially when it comes to helping people.

 

Its not uncommon on Phuket to see rescue boards high on the sand instead of spaced along the swim-line flagged area not far from the waters edge, ready to grab and run.

I've never seen a guard/s here with floaties in hand at the waters edge watching swimmer carefully from as close up as possible.

 

It seems the beach comm's & control procedures lack well serviced decent equipment here too.

 

I know that Surf Lifesaving Australia (SLSA) runs clinics here annually but sadly it's just not enough.

 

The whole system is not to the standard of Aussie lifeguarding - that standard is very high I agree, some might say too high to expect to emulate here. My response to that would be I disagree.

 

The combination of the above weaknesses and holes in the system creates a cascading effect that sees folks drown who with well equipped and better trained lifeguarding might not. The issue of un-patrolled beaches is another problem.

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, Mansell said:

People drown in England with rips in the sea. It’s basically a lack of education about being in the sea, especially in a rip. Even people on here stating “A rip drags you down” which it does not do. As a ex surfer rips can sometimes be your friend. Surfing in Morocco with a rip on one side of the beach. We’d surf in and paddle into the rip which took us out through waves very quickly, then we paddled out the side back into the lineup to surf in again. People in a rip tend to try to fight it and get tired because you cannot fight the rip, then they panic and drown. If they just floated in the rip it would carry them out at worst half a mile, then then they could float back in on the waves heading to the beach. Or just swim away from the beach angling out of the rip at a forty five degree angle, and it will push you out pretty quickly, probably around a couple of hundred yards from the beach….an easy swim. Sadly with no water knowledge they drown fighting it pretty quickly.

Remember an 18 year old lifeguard on a beach in Cornwall. Three people got into difficulty. He swam out and saved one, back out again and got the second, but by the time he reached the third one it was to late. Then this brave young man had to attend a coroners hearing and explain what happened. Extremely traumatic for him, and especially as he had lost one person. These days in Australia on some beaches they can send a flotation device out on a drone and drop it to the person in trouble, This allows the lifeguard time to get there on a board or jet ski.

Yes

People need fitness to swim 500m

 

Ive been in many rips. Usually only 30m to 50m wide. Go sideways swim in. Maybe a 250m swim.

 

You can often see rips from shore. Study the water pattern before going in

 

 

[friendphil]

10 hours ago, 2long said:

May I ask what the duty of a lifeguard is if it's not to save people in cases like this?

I know, I know, he did warn them etc. But that would surely mean he's just a guard, not a lifeguard.

I think you are confusing "lifeguard" with "live saver".  I was once a life guard, however never saved a life, nor was I ever called upon by circumstance to do so.  Also, in this case, it would have been foolish to swim  out after the victims.  Using a jetski might have been plausible, but evidently was not an option. 

[Brick Top]

Twenty two years ago I got caught in a rip tide in Florida , I was a very strong swimmer at the time but stood no chance as I was pulled right out to sea. I was on the verge of drowning through panic and exhaustion.

Then suddenly from know where appeared a young American man who rescued me ( I often think it was an act of god) . The guy told me to get on my back and within a few minutes I was back in the beach coughing up water and absolutely terrified.

The guy explained to me if it ever happened again to get on my back and swim parallel until I get out of the RIP and the surf will then bring me back in.

This incident changed my life as I am now terrified of the sea.

The amount of people who have drowned in Phuket by getting caught in rip tides is unacceptable . The government should educate tourists when they arrive of the dangers of rip tides and how they work and how to swim out of them by swimming parallel.

 

[eastlight]

10 hours ago, carlyai said:

Ocean rip currents don't drag you down, they drag you out to sea. 

Why swim in the sea anyway?

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, eastlight said:

Why swim in the sea anyway?

Great way to relax ... well, not off season.  Can't think of a  reason not to hop in for a dip, when in the neighborhood, depending where & when, along with other factors that might negatively influence the experience.

 

Really only 2 reason to go to the sea, look at it, play in it.  Can eat, drink & be merry anywhere, and being surfside just adds to the experience.  Even on a c r a p p y day, it's better than so many other options, most with a barstool.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Brick Top said:

The amount of people who have drowned in Phuket by getting caught in rip tides is unacceptable . The government should educate tourists when they arrive of the dangers of rip tides and how they work and how to swim out of them by swimming parallel.

People should not swim in unfamiliar seas .... period.  Without doing some research of the area.   Same with visiting any city, town, mountain area, forest, jungle.  You need to know your environment.

 

That's just common sense.  And most drown when the red flags are out.  That's just total stupidity.  Worse if there's a lifeguard there, telling you not to .... and yet.

 

It's not the govt's job to warn you how to think for yourself.  Especially about what most people think is the most basic common sense.

 

It's all starting to get a bit ridiculous.  Do they really need to tell you to use a seat belt, wear a helmet, how to cross the street, not to smoke cigs, or drink & drive.

 

Don't swim in rough seas when the red flags are out and lifeguard tells you not to.  What else is the govt supposed to do, so you don't drown yourself.

 

It's in the news, posted at most hotels, red flags & lifeguards.   They could give you a book at immigrations with all the warnings in the world ... and it wouldn't help.

[whaleboneman]

14 hours ago, kcpattaya said:

What a nonsense!
...They survive perhaps 30 seconds longer before any rip current will drag them down

What a nonsense!

...Rip currents don't drag anyone down.

[arithai12]

Very tragic, especially when one of them was on honeymoon and the other a husband and father.

 

About lifeguards and red flags on Phuket west coast beaches, I have to say that they are often a joke - though of course I cannot say in the specific case not having been present.

e.g., at Nai Harn beach that I frequent regularly, the red flags are often there for no real reason, and the "swim  here" red/yellow flags are always just in front of the lifeguards stations. Nothing to do with the real sea/beach conditions. As for the lifeguards, instead of monitoring closely the swimmers, they are more often than not sitting at the back of the beach in the shade playing with their phones.

As a result, people are swimming everywhere and ignore the red flags. The lifeguards do nothing about that. This said, I have also seen a few cases of people being "saved" - though in many cases the first responders were other swimmers. The lifeguard presence is useful as a whole, but it should be better organized.

[KIngsofisaan]

Growing up in Florida, rip currents were an everyday occurance.

 

People not use to swimming in the ocean are usually not aware what to do and panic.

 

The fear comes from people thinking they will be pulled miles out to sea and trying to swim back to shore against the rip, which tires them out and drowns them.

 

The reality is the rip pull is usually less than 100 meters from shore before it spits you out.

 

The key is to not panic mentally when you first get pulled from the shore.

 

You can float and even deadman float and will be out of the pull in no time.

 

When you are out of the pull,  swim horizontal to the beach, where incoming waves will assist to push you back to the shore

 

These signs are posted at all beaches in Florida, but most people that grew up near the sea know this and do not fear rip currents.

 

No ocean in Isaan so need to fear rip currents! Water Buffalo yes, rips no! ????

 

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

They had both been warned not to swim by the life guard on duty and a red flag was flying.

Nuff said.

[Old Croc]

21 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

No theres not.

 

Perhaps at touristy Patong beach.

 

You'll be hard pressed to find many lifeguards along the West Coast unless you count battered red flags as lifeguards.

 

Best not to swim this time of year on the West coat of Phuket.

 

Just let you know stevini if you ever visit Thailand. 

 

 

I've never met stevenl, but am aware he has been living on Phuket with his family for decades. He is a dive master and has his own diving business and shop in Kata a couple of streets from the beach. His experience and opinions on matters such as this are manifestly more valuable than your offerings. 

If you checked any of his 32.000 posts on this forum you wouldn't be making such idiotic insults.

[austhai]

Feel sad for the victim's families & may they rest in peace. Phuket should really employ foreign life guards like Australians, for 1 the language & 2 the experience with real waves & rips we grew up with.

[Headgame]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Then they should not be called ‘Life guards’....  Call them beach sitters or whatever, but do not provide the public with the idea that the beaches are patrolled for their safety. 

 

Lifeguards are supposedly strong swimmers and have equipment to aid with a rescue. 

 

That said - you make a valid point, why should a life-guard risk his life when people ignore a clear warning sign. If the flags were ‘red and yellow’ indicating patrolled beach, then one would expect the lifeguards to be able to do their job. 

 

That said: The lifeguards were clearly prepared to go out and fetch the unconscious swimmers, so they had the equipment and the swimming ability. What is clearly missing is their observational skills in failing to recognise the swimmers getting into trouble early enough. 

 

 

Good points and this week two lifeguards did save two drowning swimmers, where? Oh, in red flag zones. There are many viewpoints on this issue but, at the end of the day, if you swim in a red zone area = expect to die. C'mon swimmers, stop being just plain STUPID.

 

[brianthainess]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

They said that after CPR was performed on the beach both victims died on the way to hospital.

Doesn't sound like the CPR was carried out correctly or long enough, if they were alive when put in an ambulance, should have taken more time with CPR until they had stabilized more imo. not just rush them off.

 

[brianthainess]

16 hours ago, Ginner said:

The Life guard had warned  about the dangers and told the tourist not to enter the sea. The tourist chose to ignore that warning. Most foreigners assume Thais know nothing about their own country. The person who went to help proved the guard was right in not attempting to rescue the tourist as it would have resulted in 3 fatalities. First rule of rescue: only go if safe for you to do so. In this case the guard obeyed the rule.

 

I have been in a similar situation when swimming and could feel the drag on me, got back to about waist high, then i noticed out of my depth a very young girl about 8yr struggling to get back and very scared, but kept eye contact with me, I thought well if there is a small break in the waves i might take one go to grab her and pull her in only about 15 meters from where i stood my ground, Then out of no where 5 Thais rushed in to 'save' her, one was trying to ride a wave in, now I'm watching all of them struggling. Eventually  i managed to gesticulate for them to link hands???? then by some miracle i grabbed hold of them pulled all of them in, they just dropped the kid near me while they went off to shore exhausted, I picked her up and carried her ashore laid her down in the recovery position I could feel her breathing, and just to comfort her laid my hands on her till she came round, I will never forget that kid, she had maintained eye contact with me all through her struggle. Next day she ran up to me on the beach and waied me. ????

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I've never met stevenl, but am aware he has been living on Phuket with his family for decades. He is a dive master and has his own diving business and shop in Kata a couple of streets from the beach. His experience and opinions on matters such as this are manifestly more valuable than your offerings. 

If you checked any of his 32.000 posts on this forum you wouldn't be making such idiotic insults.

Theres not lifeguards on every beach.

 

I'm just pointing out a fact.

 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

38 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Theres not lifeguards on every beach.

 

I'm just pointing out a fact.

 

 

 

 

No, you were not just pointing out that fact. You were insulting, insinuating and making incorrect claims.

Typical for posters who don't have facts but do have strong opinions.

[billd766]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:01 AM, PST said:

It happened on Kata Noi beach where the 5 star Katathani Hotel is located, so life guards on duty daily.

How many lifeguards, how far apart, how well are they trained and how well are they equipped? Who pays their salary?

[billd766]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Exactly... 

 

OK... so there were red flags, and (supposedly) the lifeguards warned the tourist not to swim. 

 

Then another Thai person (55 yr old Surasit) spotted the British tourist in trouble and helped, tragically sealing his own fate. 

 

What on earth were the lifeguards doing at this time ??? - they knew it was dangerous, told the British Guy (Ali Mohammed Mian) not to swim and then forgot about him and didn’t even watch him in the sea ???

 

It would appear these lifeguards don’t think they need to ‘observe’ people entering the water.

 

------

 

Clearly the sea state in Phuket at this time of year is risky, there have been so many reports of people getting into trouble... this year it seems to have gained more attention. 

 

Are we to see a knee-jerk reaction from authorities ???.... Ban tourists from swimming in the sea  ???

 

 

quote "What on earth were the lifeguards doing at this time ??? - they knew it was dangerous, told the British Guy (Ali Mohammed Mian) not to swim and then forgot about him and didn’t even watch him in the sea ???"

 

Were you actually there at the time watching to see what the lifeguards were doing?

 

I have a problem with many of your posts simply because you were never there and all you have to offer is your opinion based on other peoples posts.

 

So please satisfy my curiosity.

 

Were you there at the time? Yes or no?

[billd766]

4 hours ago, austhai said:

Feel sad for the victim's families & may they rest in peace. Phuket should really employ foreign life guards like Australians, for 1 the language & 2 the experience with real waves & rips we grew up with.

But who would pay the salary that they would deserve? Who would equip them properly? Most importantly with the Thai labour restrictions, how would they even be able to get the job?

[Brick Top]

14 hours ago, KhunLA said:

People should not swim in unfamiliar seas .... period.  Without doing some research of the area.   Same with visiting any city, town, mountain area, forest, jungle.  You need to know your environment.

 

That's just common sense.  And most drown when the red flags are out.  That's just total stupidity.  Worse if there's a lifeguard there, telling you not to .... and yet.

 

It's not the govt's job to warn you how to think for yourself.  Especially about what most people think is the most basic common sense.

 

It's all starting to get a bit ridiculous.  Do they really need to tell you to use a seat belt, wear a helmet, how to cross the street, not to smoke cigs, or drink & drive.

 

Don't swim in rough seas when the red flags are out and lifeguard tells you not to.  What else is the govt supposed to do, so you don't drown yourself.

 

It's in the news, posted at most hotels, red flags & lifeguards.   They could give you a book at immigrations with all the warnings in the world ... and it wouldn't help.

I wasn't refairing to the red flags being out I was refairing to the dangers of rip tides , the sea does not have to be rough or indeed any red flags out when a rip can form.

Rip tides can occur at anytime , when i nearly drowned in the USA they certainly wasn't any red flags out , also the sea looked normal.

I had no idea before about rip tides and how they form in the sea. If people were educated about rip tides and how to swim out of them it would save a lot of lives that's what I was saying.

Far to many people are dying in Phuket because of these rip tides , about 12 years ago an expert on rip tides came to Phuket from Australia to educate the life guards on them.

I remember it well , and once on Karon beach it  was on a calm day and he dispersed a lot of red dye in the sea to show how a rip was forming and what to do if caught in one .

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Expert-demonstrates-power-rip-current-Phukets-deadliest-beach

Edited July 16, 2022 by Brick Top
Missed something

[Brick Top]

15 hours ago, KhunLA said:

People should not swim in unfamiliar seas .... period.  Without doing some research of the area.   Same with visiting any city, town, mountain area, forest, jungle.  You need to know your environment.

 

That's just common sense.  And most drown when the red flags are out.  That's just total stupidity.  Worse if there's a lifeguard there, telling you not to .... and yet.

 

It's not the govt's job to warn you how to think for yourself.  Especially about what most people think is the most basic common sense.

 

It's all starting to get a bit ridiculous.  Do they really need to tell you to use a seat belt, wear a helmet, how to cross the street, not to smoke cigs, or drink & drive.

 

Don't swim in rough seas when the red flags are out and lifeguard tells you not to.  What else is the govt supposed to do, so you don't drown yourself.

 

It's in the news, posted at most hotels, red flags & lifeguards.   They could give you a book at immigrations with all the warnings in the world ... and it wouldn't help.

 

12 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Growing up in Florida, rip currents were an everyday occurance.

 

People not use to swimming in the ocean are usually not aware what to do and panic.

 

The fear comes from people thinking they will be pulled miles out to sea and trying to swim back to shore against the rip, which tires them out and drowns them.

 

The reality is the rip pull is usually less than 100 meters from shore before it spits you out.

 

The key is to not panic mentally when you first get pulled from the shore.

 

You can float and even deadman float and will be out of the pull in no time.

 

When you are out of the pull,  swim horizontal to the beach, where incoming waves will assist to push you back to the shore

 

These signs are posted at all beaches in Florida, but most people that grew up near the sea know this and do not fear rip currents.

 

No ocean in Isaan so need to fear rip currents! Water Buffalo yes, rips no! ????

 

Absolutely correct , read my post of what happened to me in Fort Lauderdale Florida , I almost died when I got caught in a rip and had no idea what was happening.

When I was rescued , I was educated about what to do if I should ever be caught in a rip tide again.  As you mentioned I was told not to panic and try and get on my back and swim parallel to the beach until the tide brings me back in. 

I owe that guy my life who saved me from drowning that day in the year 2000 , I was in totally exhausted after trying to swim back in against the rip tide for 15 minutes which is impossible and just about to go under.

 

[Brick Top]

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Expert-demonstrates-power-rip-current-Phukets-deadliest-beach

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

No, you were not just pointing out that fact. You were insulting, insinuating and making incorrect claims.

Typical for posters who don't have facts but do have strong opinions.

Sorry.