Thai massage.... I want to change the lady

[wn78]

Recently I had a really uncomfortable foot massage session.  I generally don’t like to be massaged hard, so I would often tell the lady to adjust it to a more comfortable level, and it works well for me.  This last time I must have told her 5 times to go easy, and yet even when she was no longer pressing too hard, somehow her fingers felt like they were made from hardwood, and every couple of minutes she would make me uncomfortable.  The shop was actually premium with higher prices, advertised “traditional Thai massage”, and well rated on Google.  Only after it was over, and I was walking away feeling quite unsatisfied, it occurred to me that next time in that kind of situation I would just ask to change the lady.  I’ve never done that before, and never seen it done by others.  I assume it would make the lady lose face, and I would certainly not enjoy doing it, but I can’t pay for 1 hour of feeling unrelaxed just to spare her feelings.

In my moderate experience of a few dozen massages, I find that only a small percentage of ladies are really good, and have a good sense how to adjust to each particular person to do a good penetrating massage without making it uncomfortable.  The majority are average, just ok, either too strong, too weak, or just not a great feeling overall.   Recently someone who went to a massage school explained to me that it’s not just the amount of pressure, but the angle and the motion of the fingers, and they teach those nuances in a massage school.  The majority of ladies at street massage shops never go to any real training and just learn on the job, and the result is general mediocrity, even at “premium” places.  I am yet to figure out how to locate shops that employ well trained staff.

Thoughts?
 

Edited July 29, 2022 by wn78

[huyuli]

Hi wn78. I used to be a reflexologist. According to its dogma, pain in a part of the foot indicates ill health in the corresponding part of the body (see chart). i could choose to give comfortable massages and take the money, or I could try to improve someone's health and make them uncomfortable at the risk that they'll take their business elsewhere.

[Bobbie Davies]

Every genuine Thai massage I have had involves what you consider roughness. Thai massage is not just pouring on a little oil and gently rubbing. If you don’t like the way of the massage go to different place, there are a million. Do not change lady in the middle of massage, affects her income and the income of your other choice, and you are right, there would be a face issue, you might even make the next girl uncomfortable if they even allowed it. 

[OneMoreFarang]

42 minutes ago, wn78 said:

Recently I had a really uncomfortable foot massage session.  I generally don’t like to be massaged hard, so I would often tell the lady to adjust it to a more comfortable level, and it works well for me.  This last time I must have told her 5 times to go easy, and yet even when she was no longer pressing too hard, somehow her fingers felt like they were made from hardwood, and every couple of minutes she would make me uncomfortable.  The shop was actually premium with higher prices, advertised “traditional Thai massage”, and well rated on Google.  Only after it was over, and I was walking away feeling quite unsatisfied, it occurred to me that next time in that kind of situation I would just ask to change the lady.  I’ve never done that before, and never seen it done by others.  I assume it would make the lady lose face, and I would certainly not enjoy doing it, but I can’t pay for 1 hour of feeling unrelaxed just to spare her feelings.

In my moderate experience of a few dozen massages, I find that only a small percentage of ladies are really good, and have a good sense how to adjust to each particular person to do a good penetrating massage without making it uncomfortable.  The majority are average, just ok, either too strong, too weak, or just not a great feeling overall.   Recently someone who went to a massage school explained to me that it’s not just the amount of pressure, but the angle and the motion of the fingers, and they teach those nuances in a massage school.  The majority of ladies at street massage shops never go to any real training and just learn on the job, and the result is general mediocrity, even at “premium” places.  I am yet to figure out how to locate shops that employ well trained staff.

Thoughts?

Your post is accurate in many ways.

 

About getting a better massage while they started already: Tell her it hurts. And if she doesn't change, tell her again. And again. Ask her if she understands what you are saying. Remove your feet. Escalate the situation in a calm way. She will get better or she will get annoyed. 

If you are in a good place then there will be a manager to talk to. Don't tell the manager she is stupid and doesn't listen, etc. Tell the manager that it hurts when she massages you and you prefer a lighter touch.

Option 1 is he/she listens and does something. Option 2 nothing happens and you know you don't have to go to that shop again.

 

And about the qualification: People will only be able to give you a proper massage if they learned how to do it. My gf went to the famous Wat Po school in Bangkok. After a couple of weeks training she received a certificate. You can ask in a shop where they trained and if they have certificates. In a good place they all should have certificates. Obviously it's still possible that those are fake or the person doesn't care to give you a decent massage. But at least with certificates you have a higher chance to get a good massage.

And they know and train how to concentrate on the individual person in the massage school.

[soi3eddie]

After many years and a large number of massages in home settings, hi end shops, low end shops I've never had a complaint. I would say that the sort of massage you experienced is wrong. You didn't say where, however your location states "USA" so would suggest you hop on a flight and arrive in the Land of Smiles and happy massages. I have found that in Thailand the service is most obliging and the staff will massage at the pressure level you prefer.

1 hour ago, wn78 said:

Only after it was over, and I was walking away feeling quite unsatisfied, it occurred to me that next time in that kind of situation I would just ask to change the lady.

 Come to Bangkok or Pattaya and satisfaction is guaranteed! Just sayin'

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by soi3eddie

[wn78]

13 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

Come to Bangkok or Pattaya and satisfaction is guaranteed! Just sayin'

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post.  This was in LOS, in a major tourist area, and my entire post is about LOS experience only.

Edited July 29, 2022 by wn78

[Lacessit]

IMO massage is a learning process, for the masseuse and client both.

 

I'll put up with one incompetent massage. However, I don't go back. If one refused to back off, I would cut the massage short, pay the full amount, and leave.

 

I moved to Chiang Rai over two years ago. After experimenting with several massage shops, I settled on one 60 yo lady who has been doing massage for 30 years. She knows the level of pressure I can take.

 

Tourist areas would not have the same regular clientele. As they are frequently dealing with Koreans and Japanese, who demand very intensive massage, it's not surprising the OP should encounter a woman who did not understand his limitations.

[scubascuba3]

The best thing to do is choose a different shop next time, otherwise what will happen is the hard fingered lady will be very frosty.

 

I've changed massage girls once or twice during the massage, some only have a hard or soft massage, no inbetween settings.

 

In Pattaya you can get a very good foot massage for 100 baht + tip, don't think you have to pay premium

[2baht]

3 hours ago, wn78 said:

 I am yet to figure out how to locate shops that employ well trained staff.

Trial and error!...................Never try, never know!

[MrMilk]

I would just wait it out (or even make a excuse and leave if I had enough) and go to a different place next time.

Its simply not worth raising your voice with a issue in a setting like this.

[jastheace]

2 hours ago, wn78 said:

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post.  This was in LOS, in a major tourist area, and my entire post is about LOS experience only.

posting on ASEANNOW forum, it was clear where you are. some readers forget where they are though...

[2baht]

42 minutes ago, jastheace said:

posting on ASEANNOW forum, it was clear where you are. some readers forget where they are though...

 

[Iamfalang]

4 hours ago, wn78 said:

 The majority are average, just ok,

It's only a little bit about the massage.  It's about being in a strange country and having some lady touch you for an hour or two for like $10 USD.  It's pretty comical.   Killing boredom, getting some blood circulation going (lol) and something to do.   If it hurts even a little bit it might take a day or so to really recover.  Oil massages are totally useless, not for me unless it's someone I really know (discount).   Have zero expectations....it's an experience.   

 

Imagine if you had to rub people for hours a day....you get tired and the money isn't great.

 

go in the morning or early afternoon.    no more than 300 baht (maybe 50 to 100 baht tip), then zero expectations and relax

[Lucky Bones]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO massage is a learning process, for the masseuse and client both.

 

I'll put up with one incompetent massage. However, I don't go back. If one refused to back off, I would cut the massage short, pay the full amount, and leave.

 

I moved to Chiang Rai over two years ago. After experimenting with several massage shops, I settled on one 60 yo lady who has been doing massage for 30 years. She knows the level of pressure I can take.

 

Tourist areas would not have the same regular clientele. As they are frequently dealing with Koreans and Japanese, who demand very intensive massage, it's not surprising the OP should encounter a woman who did not understand his limitations.

Agreed. If unhappy, politely make up a excuse to have to quickly leave.

Pay up full price then smile, nod, wai (again politely) and depart.

The OP should remember, this is her income, she needs to survive in a very competitive market, just think, some bar girls etc might not be brilliant after a contract is sealed.

 

Look elsewhere next time. As another poster said, their are millions of options.

Good Luck????.

[CharlieH]

Have you considered the pain may be because you actually have a problem ? as per the reflexology post above.

If the pain is localised and not everywhere she is working then its worth considering.

Do you speak Thai ? Learn the Thai words for hurt and soft please, that may help.

If that doesnt work stop her,pay and leave, go to another shop or when you go again, ask for someone else not her.

[petermik]

Jebb maak maak....hurt too much 

[Dante99]

Facts

1.  Foot massage is often painful.  A good massage shop will so advise you in advance and have you confirm your understanding and agreement.

 

2.  In Thailand foot massage is often or partially done with a small stick, not fingers.  That stick permits a lot of pressure to be concentrated in a small area hence pain.  If you do not adjust your position to see carefully, you may not be aware they are using a stick, it is small and easily palmed.  A lot of people simply do not know that they have paid money to have someone poke them with a stick.

 

 

[Lucky Bones]

1 minute ago, Dante99 said:

Facts

1.  Foot massage is often painful.  A good massage shop will so advise you in advance and have you confirm your understanding and agreement.

 

2.  In Thailand foot massage is often or partially done with a small stick, not fingers.  That stick permits a lot of pressure to be concentrated in a small area hence pain.  If you do not adjust your position to see carefully, you may not be aware they are using a stick, it is small and easily palmed.  A lot of people simply do not know that they have paid money to have someone poke them with a stick.

 

 

...paid someone money to be poked with a stick....

Sound a lot like life in general????????.

[Kinnock]

13 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Facts

1.  Foot massage is often painful.  A good massage shop will so advise you in advance and have you confirm your understanding and agreement.

 

2.  In Thailand foot massage is often or partially done with a small stick, not fingers.  That stick permits a lot of pressure to be concentrated in a small area hence pain.  If you do not adjust your position to see carefully, you may not be aware they are using a stick, it is small and easily palmed.  A lot of people simply do not know that they have paid money to have someone poke them with a stick.

 

 

At the start of a foot massage, I say "Phom mai ow mai" ..... I don't want stick.  

 

An experienced masseur will use her fingers to hit the points, but as others have said, a good foot massage will hurt a bit.

[GammaGlobulin]

After carefully reading this topic, and a few of the comments, I would like to offer one possible explanation for overly enthusiastic, possibly painful, massages:

 

I am speaking of the Passive-Aggressive masseuse. 

 

In fact, your account of unreasonably painful massages sounds to me like an excellent thesis topic for completion of either an MA or even a PhD program. 

 

In other words, to what extent does a minority of masseuses, either consciously or unconsciously, express their underlying feelings, in Passive-Aggressive behavior, while massaging their clients, some of whom they might secretly despise, most likely for irrational reasons. 

 

In order to raise this MA thesis topic up to the level of a PhD dissertation, then one might need to tweak it a bit. 

 

Nonetheless, I can easily see someone, such as me, being granted a PhD, just through thoroughly researching the topic, "Passive-Aggressive Behavior of the Abused Masseuse Directed at Foreign Clients, Attributable to the Generalization of Perception of The Foreigner". 

 

Please believe me that this dissertation topic title is NOT too long. And, if I were younger, I might choose to enter a thesis-only PhD program in Thailand to research and write an original dissertation on this topic. 

 

More to the point in replying to the OP, it is my opinion that, wherever massages are occurring, then you should not rule out the dynamic of Passive-Aggressive behavior anytime one begins to feel an inordinate amount of pain. 

 

And this dynamic, for sure, is both logical and understandable. 

 

It is only just too surprising to me that no one has yet mentioned this reasonable observation in the comments, so far. 

 

Astounding, even. 

 

[chalawaan]

Do you post to get advice on changing your socks as well?

???? 

Just do it. 

A Thai male wouldn't agonize over such trivia  for a Bangkok second.

Divide and rule!

[scubascuba3]

I've had 100s of foot massages, it's trial and error, some ladies are naturally excellent with perfect firmness from the off, some very poor and some in-between 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Have you considered the pain may be because you actually have a problem ? as per the reflexology post above.

If the pain is localised and not everywhere she is working then its worth considering.

Do you speak Thai ? Learn the Thai words for hurt and soft please, that may help.

If that doesnt work stop her,pay and leave, go to another shop or when you go again, ask for someone else not her.

Or, please recall Elias' memorable exhortation, holding a dying man on the battlefield in Vietnam, with his hand covering his mouth to stop the screams, in the film, 'Platoon', "Take the Pain!". 

 

Admittedly, it's just my personal choice that I will never... 

 

a. Visit a chiropractor to be manipulated 

b. Have a massage given by somebody I don't know 

 

I would not even have a soapy massage given to me by a woman that I had not known and dated for at least a month. 

 

Best massages are provided by wives, in my opinion. I have had three. But I would never marry a masseuse for a bride. Simply because I would always be thinking about the many massages she did before she did unto me. 

 

 

[Dante99]

21 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

At the start of a foot massage, I say "Phom mai ow mai" ..... I don't want stick.  

you might check the Thai word for stick to correct your request

[GammaGlobulin]

25 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

you might check the Thai word for stick to correct your request

I think it's more of a syntax problem. 

[internationalism]

communicate with therapist all the time, especially if uncomfortable.

That verbally and non-verbally. 

Experienced therapist should read body reaction even without talking. Suppose to read face expression. 

If not certain, a therapist should frequently ask question.

I never order foot massage, that after trying it the first time and finding it too painful. I had another one recently, just to accompany another person.

Yes, you can ask to change a therapist at any time during treatment. You don't have to give any reason. Don't bother about their face or lost income - their problem if not listening carefully to you.

Majority of therapists are good. And they should learn from your instructions during treatment, so they will improve.

 

My way of getting massage is finding the nearest and cheapest possibly clinic, pay for a package of 10-20h. Once I have bought a gold package 150h with 25% discount. Myself and all my family used it.

 

I do have experience with massage, including receiving thousands of hours, also practising and translating during teaching courses 

Edited July 30, 2022 by internationalism

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Or, please recall Elias' memorable exhortation, holding a dying man on the battlefield in Vietnam, with his hand covering his mouth to stop the screams, in the film, 'Platoon', "Take the Pain!". 

 

Admittedly, it's just my personal choice that I will never... 

 

a. Visit a chiropractor to be manipulated 

b. Have a massage given by somebody I don't know 

 

I would not even have a soapy massage given to me by a woman that I had not known and dated for at least a month. 

 

Best massages are provided by wives, in my opinion. I have had three. But I would never marry a masseuse for a bride. Simply because I would always be thinking about the many massages she did before she did unto me. 

 

 

How did you get to know the person doing the massage without having a first time massage?

 

Personally, I prefer an experienced woman for massages or anything else. Virgins are way overrated IME.

[GammaGlobulin]

44 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

How did you get to know the person doing the massage without having a first time massage?

 

Personally, I prefer an experienced woman for massages or anything else. Virgins are way overrated IME.

I have been married twice, and have also had a very long-term GF, of about 20 years.

 

All three became experts at massage while practicing with me.

 

None of these women ever used a stick on me, nor a belt.

 

Now, in my old age, I am thankful for all my massage memories of days and nights past.

 

It is really true that the best massages, and the best sex, can be found within either marriage or a very long term relationship.

 

At least, this is what I must admit from my experience.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

I agree with your comments and had that situation before. At first I blamed myself but then noted those massages did not appear to have a longer term benefit so I just didn't go back. Life's too short to have a massage that hurts and just makes you more tired and stressed.

As others have said it is probably trial and error but looking at their sites and finding properly qualified staff will help. If you want to go to the same shop and she is next then just smile and say thankyou but I'd like someone else. She'll forget it 5 minutes and if not she might realise she needs more training. 

[Lacessit]

53 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

I have been married twice, and have also had a very long-term GF, of about 20 years.

 

All three became experts at massage while practicing with me.

 

None of these women ever used a stick on me, nor a belt.

 

Now, in my old age, I am thankful for all my massage memories of days and nights past.

 

It is really true that the best massages, and the best sex, can be found within either marriage or a very long term relationship.

 

At least, this is what I must admit from my experience.

One marriage was enough to convince me never again. 28 years of it, I was a slow learner.

 

My Thai GF will do 10 minutes of massage for me. She is not professionally trained, just village teaching. If I want a thorough massage, I'll use my regular lady.

 

I'd disagree with the proposition the best sex is in long term relationships.   I have had some of my best sex with women whom I only knew overnight, or for a week at most. Although I will admit my GF of 8 years still has my attention. And also admit I encountered an equal number of short-term duds.