Retirement visa/extension, the small print

[spambot]

3 hours ago, zzzzz said:

in Phuket, if u have the cash in the bank, most agents seem to charge 10,000 to do the work for ya
no money its up to 16,000

pop over to Cambodia, get the Business visa on arrival ( $35 )
and open a 1 year account , interest, depending, on bank is 6-7%
pays for the agent

Great point zzzzz

 

As the world economy changes the risk free interest available from Banks, Gov Bonds or money market funds continues to increase the argument for better use of 800K Baht. Today that risk free difference equates to over 22K Baht minus the Thai bank deposit rate of say 0.5% (4K), the resulting 18K Baht gain should be worth at least a consideration. 

[xylophone]

25 minutes ago, spambot said:

Great point zzzzz

 

As the world economy changes the risk free interest available from Banks, Gov Bonds or money market funds continues to increase the argument for better use of 800K Baht. Today that risk free difference equates to over 22K Baht minus the Thai bank deposit rate of say 0.5% (4K), the resulting 18K Baht gain should be worth at least a consideration. 

I will stress that I do have the 800K in the bank and it will stay there, just in case, so I'm not doing anything illegal, just getting some help to get past the immigration Nazis, and as @Misty has said, it's not surprising given the hard time I've had with those guys in the past, despite everything being in order.

 

I'm 75 this year and I just don't want a hard time at immigration so the 15,000 baht will be well spent IMO.

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I will stress that I do have the 800K in the bank and it will stay there, just in case, so I'm not doing anything illegal, just getting some help to get past the immigration Nazis, and as @Misty has said, it's not surprising given the hard time I've had with those guys in the past, despite everything being in order.

 

I'm 75 this year and I just don't want a hard time at immigration so the 15,000 baht will be well spent IMO.

Out of interest which immigration office.

Extensions using money in the bank has minimal paperwork. 

"Immigration Nazis"? What was required that is difficult.

 

[xylophone]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Out of interest which immigration office.

Extensions using money in the bank has minimal paperwork. 

"Immigration Nazis"? What was required that is difficult.

 

Since you ask Dr Jack54, I will give you my worst three experiences at Phuket immigration office: –

 

1). I received a new NZ passport so when the time came to renew my retirement extension I took the old and new passports down to the office, and was told there would be no charge for the new passport.

 

Imagine my surprise when the officer behind the desk asked me for 500 Baht, and my only "fault" (if you want to call it that) was to suggest that I was told it was free and I didn't hand over 500 baht. The officer then turned to his sidekick and spoke something in Thai and smiled and returned to me and said that he wanted copies of every page of my previous bank book, which I didn't have on me.

 

So I had to drive back from Phuket to Patong to pick up the old bank book, which by the way was not relevant to anything, and when I sat in front of this officer again, he then said he wanted copies of every page, so I had to go downstairs and get copies of every page.

 

I then returned and he said he wanted copies of EVERY page of my old passport, even though many of them were blank, so down to the copy shop again to get more copies for him – – of blank pages that is.

I eventually was issued with the retirement extension but it took me four visits and two days of hassle to get it. He just wanted to show me who was the boss, so made me jump through hoops as the saying goes.

 

2). In the days when regular income was accepted by immigration, I had half a pension coming from the UK and half from NZ, +400 K in the bank, so I thought I was okay, and just to make sure that the paperwork was understandable (because the overseas pension funds came in on different days) I had added them all up on a page by page basis, and everything should have been fine as I had the letter from my embassies – – so plain sailing I thought.

 

The officer was grumbling and mumbling as he was flicking through the pages and after a short while he looked up at me slammed his hand on his desk leaned forward into my face and said with a scowl, "next year you put all the money in the bank"! This despite the fact that 65K per month was one of the options available and I had complied with that completely.

 

3). This happened last year (or perhaps the year before) and I had everything lined up and had been to Bangkok bank to get copies of the bank statement with 800K in it, plus a copy of my normal bank book and a letter from the bank explaining everything, however the bank manager said I would have to wait a week as they had to send to Bangkok to get this report.

 

So a week later I went back and they didn't have it and it was getting perilously close to my retirement extension date, so I came back on the Monday and there it was, and it had been there all the time but had been overlooked. I hurriedly got everything in order and raced down to immigration and tried to explain to the officer what had happened.

 

No luck on that score, because he simply said that I had overstayed three days and was going to be fined 1500 baht for three days overstay, even though I explained to him that the bank was at fault and the money had been in the account all of the time.

 

It didn't make a blind bit of difference as he took my 1500 baht and shooed me away.

 

It shouldn't be difficult and there have been other occasions when I have managed to get through the day at immigration without too much of a problem, apart from the queues and the waiting, and having to come back the next day for my passport, but it is something I dread, and as I am in a position to be able to spend money on an agent and not worry about it, then that's what I will do.

 

For the record, a close friend is going to use an agent again this year even though he has had 800K in the bank for more than 10 years here, because last year he was bringing in money from the UK at a rate of 65K baht per month, and for some reason the overseas transfer didn't occur in one month and although he had the 800K in the bank the immigration officer wouldn't accept his application because of this, so my friend asked him why this was, when he had the 800K in the bank all the time, and the officer lost his temper and ordered him out of the office.

 

So my friend collected his paperwork and went to an agent and that's what he will do again this year.

 

Just to add some icing on the cake a Canadian friend of mine has been down to immigration three times over the past 14 days and as he had just come back into the country he was unsure of what was required, so he handed over his passport and whatever visa he had and they just told him to go away. He enquired as to what he should do and the officer just told him to go away, so he did.

 

He went to the farang at the desk, where the guy actually checks the paperwork to make sure it's in order, and he told him that it was, so he went away and came back a few days later, only to be told to go away again, so he asked why and what he should do, but no answer and he was waved away. His comment to me was that he found it absolutely amazing that Phuket was desperately in need of tourists, yet he and a couple of others who had turned up at immigration were treated like lepers.

 

This is absolutely no way to run an important part of Phuket tourism, and I don't want any more of it, so off to an agent I go when my extension becomes due mid next month.

[spambot]

xylophone A totally Brilliant response to DrJack54 questions.

[DrJack54]

36 minutes ago, xylophone said:

This is absolutely no way to run an important part of Phuket tourism, and I don't want any more of it, so off to an agent I go when my extension becomes due mid next month.

Agent is always an option.

 

No reason to doubt your account so accept that.

Haven't read any similar accounts regarding Phuket.

 

Some imm offices dont accept combination method and some even give those using income method a hard time. 

 

The charging for transfer of information and stamps to new passport is a scam and unfortunate.

 

Fortunately at most immigration offices this is not the norm.

I have zero issues at CW using money in bank method. 

 

Edi: out of interest check back some threads re extensions retirement Phuket money in bank method.

Most reports read like this thread.

Seems you had lot of bad luck. 

 

 

[L0St]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:33 AM, spambot said:

Thank you, 

 

Peterw42, xylophone, zzzzz, Misty, Mike Teavee, jimn, PeachCH 

for the really good information about how using agents would be helpful to readers.

 

Adults can now make a better informed decision.

 

Those with strong opposing beliefs clearly are entitled to expression, but is not as welcomed when it becomes disrespectful or personal..

I completely agree.

[n00dle]

On 9/27/2022 at 3:49 PM, jimn said:

In your situation I would use an agent, only 13k in Pattaya.

I honestly don't understand why folk jump through hoops when this is an option. 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/28/2022 at 4:34 AM, TaoNow said:

Also, it is dangerous for the ex-pat since, once you go the agent route, you are stuck with it.  If the agent is busted, then so are you.

Nonsense. Applications for extensions can revert back to being done without an agent for any subsequent extension. 

Agents operating within the system that Immigration offices are well aware of, and do not discourage, who follow their rules do not "get busted".  

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/28/2022 at 1:28 PM, xylophone said:

I am in Phuket zzzzz, Patong actually, and if you have the name of an agent who would charge 10,000 baht, then perhaps you would be kind enough to send it me via a PM?

Then you can share it with the rest of us.  Wouldn't hold my breath for his PM, though.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 9/28/2022 at 1:48 PM, Misty said:

As TaoNow says above (paraphrasing a bit) - the use of agents makes it more difficult for those trying to do the process legally.

No, it doesn't.  Agents' clients applications have no effect at all on personal applications.  Supply all the required documentation and you'll get your extension, regardless of whether others are using agents.

[Misty]

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it doesn't.  Agents' clients applications have no effect at all on personal applications.  Supply all the required documentation and you'll get your extension, regardless of whether others are using agents.

I'd really like to believe that. But I can't explain why in recent years things became ever more difficult for those of us meeting all the requirements but not using agents. There have been new requirements added every year, old requirements being changed with no prior warning, cancelled appointments, and very long waits.  Some of us have gotten the impression we only had to say "how can I make this easier" , find out what VIP service fee was required, and all the dysfunctional additional bureaucracy would go away. 

 

I've been getting NonB extensions successfully for nearly 30 years without agents. I can't explain this recent behavior. Do you have any idea what is going on?

[L0St]

29 minutes ago, n00dle said:

I honestly don't understand why folk jump through hoops when this is an option. 

It has been noted that using an agent is an option. If you want to discuss pros and cons of using an agent, then please start another topic.

 

All this is new to me and would appreciate it if anyone is kind enough to share exactly what was accepted whilst renting to do a DIY Jomtien retirement conversion and/or annual extension.

[Liverpool Lou]

26 minutes ago, Misty said:

There have been new requirements added every year,

Have there?  For retirement extensions?  What are the most recent "new requirements"?

[Misty]

8 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Have there?  For retirement extensions?  What are the most recent "new requirements"?

As I think you know, I was discussing what appears to me to be the general impact of use of agents on others. The new requirements are based on my own experience with NonB extensions.

 

But to your point, more than a few friends with retirement extensions have reported longer and longer wait times, while watching others with agents be in and out in short order.  They've also wondered if this is an attempt to get them to use agents and pay VIP fees too.

 

Love to hear what you think is going on.

[aussiexpat]

2 hours ago, Misty said:

But to your point, more than a few friends with retirement extensions have reported longer and longer wait times, while watching others with agents be in and out in short order.  They've also wondered if this is an attempt to get them to use agents and pay VIP fees too.

I'm sure the longer wait times were due to all the covid extensions being done. Now that they are no more, wait times should be back to pre-covid normal

[aussiexpat]

4 hours ago, n00dle said:

I honestly don't understand why folk jump through hoops when this is an option. 

I don't understand why go to an agent (unless not having 800k in bank). You have to give the agent the exact same paperwork you'd give immigration so all you're saving is lining up at immigration.

 

Note: don't you also have to still go to immigration anyway as I see agents taking photo's of clients in front of building all the time to prove they were there?

 

[zzzzz]

5 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

I don't understand why go to an agent (unless not having 800k in bank). You have to give the agent the exact same paperwork you'd give immigration so all you're saving is lining up at immigration.

 

Note: don't you also have to still go to immigration anyway as I see agents taking photo's of clients in front of building all the time to prove they were there?

 

I know more than a few expats in Phuket that have had a bad experience with immigration an do not want to ever deal with them again!

using an agent means NO MORE dealing with immigration again!
 

[Joebuzzz]

At the agent by the post office a week ago.  Was told if I use them here and move, I would have to come back here every annual renewal if using their 800K.  

[n00dle]

8 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

You have to give the agent the exact same paperwork you'd give immigration so all you're saving is lining up at immigration.

 

I give the agent my passport and bank book for 15 mins. 10 days later a motorcycle courier arrives with my visa.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Joebuzzz said:

At the agent by the post office a week ago.  Was told if I use them here and move, I would have to come back here every annual renewal if using their 800K.  

....'cause they don't have secret handshakes and brown paper bag agreements with other Imm offices.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Joebuzzz said:

At the agent by the post office a week ago.  Was told if I use them here and move, I would have to come back here every annual renewal if using their 800K.  

They would say that, they want repeat business!   Any agent's services can be used and at any renewal switching back to dealing with Immigration directly is no issue.  

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

They would say that, they want repeat business!   Any agent's services can be used and at any renewal switching back to dealing with Immigration directly is no issue.  

It would be a problem if the agent fixes the 800k baht in the bank requirment.

When applying for the next extension yourself you would not have proof the 800k baht was in the bank for 2 months before the extension was applied and the then for 3 months after or the 400k baht after that until it was topped up again to 800k baht.

[JimGant]

12 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Any agent's services can be used and at any renewal switching back to dealing with Immigration directly is no issue.  

Kinda hard to prove you had 800k in the bank for three months past last year's extension renewal date -- and then never went below 400k for the rest of the year -- IF you used an agent to dodge this requirement. So, I'd say ditching your agent, and going straight -- could prove problematic.

[couchpotato]

25 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

They would say that, they want repeat business!   Any agent's services can be used and at any renewal switching back to dealing with Immigration directly is no issue.  

You are very wrong here. There definitely is an issue with this agent method and then switching (at Jomtien anyway).

Was at Jomtien IO 2 weeks ago getting re-entry. Big kerfuffle with one guy at Retirement desk, as he had gone the agent method (agents funds) last time, and now couldn't show the yearly required funds in bank (especially the 3mth/2mths). He argued (very loudly for all to hear) that the IO had been given money from the agent last year to facilitate his extension, so they must give him his new extension. Two officers came from upstairs and escorted him outside.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, couchpotato said:

You are very wrong here. There definitely is an issue with this agent method and then switching (at Jomtien anyway).

Was at Jomtien IO 2 weeks ago getting re-entry. Big kerfuffle with one guy at Retirement desk, as he had gone the agent method (agents funds) last time, and now couldn't show the yearly required funds in bank (especially the 3mth/2mths). He argued (very loudly for all to hear) that the IO had been given money from the agent last year to facilitate his extension, so they must give him his new extension. Two officers came for upstairs and escorted him outside.

No, I am not very wrong.   There's a big difference between reverting back to dealing with Immigration (meeting all the requirements) from using an agent the previous year and not having the correct funds, throwing his weight around publicly accusing the IOs of accepting bribes and demanding that an extension is issued!

 

When applying for a new extension IOs are not investigating how the applicant got the previous, soon to be expired extension.

 

 

[pablo el sueco]

13 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Have there?  For retirement extensions?  What are the most recent "new requirements"?

For the first 12 years of my stay, there were no changes.  Thereafter, the following changes have left my head spinning

• 2019--must reappear 3 months after extension to prove 800,000 in bank.
• 2020--must submit TM28 Change of Address at extension application together with Cha Not, Tabien Baan, etc even if TM30 was done on the same date.
• 2020--12-month bank statement required at extension application.
• 2020--must reappear 3 months after extension to prove 800,000 in bank AND 6 months after extension to prove 800,000 in bank.
• 2020--must purchase TGIA insurance for 400,000 coverage.
• 2021--must reappear 3 months after extension to prove 800,000 in bank AND 6 months after extension to prove 400,000 in bank.
• 2022--must purchase TGIA insurance for 3,000,000 baht /or/ be able to prove equivalent foreign coverage thru embassy /or/ be able to prove self-insurance for 3,000,000 baht for 2 months prior to extension application after denial of insurance coverage -- caveat, insurance funds must be in a separate bank account from the 800,000 used to fund the extension.

I'd say they've been pretty busy making up "new requirements" recently.

 

[JimGant]

12 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

When applying for a new extension IOs are not investigating how the applicant got the previous, soon to be expired extension.

Of course they are. Why do some Imm offices require copies of your bankbook for the past 12 months? And others require a bank printout of your account's past 12 month history? Both methods for the same reason: To see if you adhered to the Police Order requirement to keep 800k in the account for 3 months after extension renewal; to never have gone below the 400k requirement; and finally to see that you've now had 800k back in the account two months prior to your current renewal application.

 

Sorry if this makes ditching your agent and going straight -- so difficult.

[JimGant]

30 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Two officers came from upstairs and escorted him outside.

Ah, justice. Nice to have a good news story on this forum.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Sorry if this makes ditching your agent and going straight -- so difficult.

It doesn't, and it isn't.