lost retirement visa, now on overstay

[JimTripper]

 

11 minutes ago, NancyL said:

The old guy won't want to hear this, but it may be time for him to return to his home country for good.  This isn't a good country for elderly foreigners with limited resources, no local family support, who are starting to "lose their marbles".  The fact that he left the country without a re-entry permit, didn't realize he was going on overstay and now doesn't have the financial resources to correct the situation is evidence that he can't handle his own affairs.  

 

It seems that he has family/friends in his home country because he visited them recently.  There are social and medical services available to people of his age there.  

 

He's not going to want to hear this.  There are no young beautiful women to tell him he's handsome and willing to spend the night with him for a modest gift.  Cheap beer and barstool buddies aren't steps away.  But he's in danger of being arrested for overstay (yes, they do arrest men of his age) or having an accident and receiving only minimal care because he can't pay the bill.  Something where he can't travel back to his home country, like a fall resulting in a broken hip.  

That always seems to be a great answer, but not realistic at least for the USA.

 

You "return home" there in your 70's without a relative waiting for you at the airport with a bedroom ready and you would find yourself homeless and probably die. There's no social worker or people there waiting for you. Your on your own.

Edited October 27, 2022 by JimTripper

[JayClay]

1 hour ago, Joinaman said:

i have to agree with you, i think he has at least half the money, but he hates paying for anything and keeps going on about how he only paid 10.000 before

hes even talking about not paying and living on overstay, saying what can they do to an old man 

So let him get on with it. It sounds like he doesn't really want any help so why should you go out of your way to assist him further?

[Sparktrader]

24 minutes ago, JayClay said:

So let him get on with it. It sounds like he doesn't really want any help so why should you go out of your way to assist him further?

Yes forget it. His problem.

[The Fugitive]

32 minutes ago, JayClay said:

So let him get on with it. It sounds like he doesn't really want any help so why should you go out of your way to assist him further?

Sounds as if the guy is 'losing it'. OP may feel some sympathy and/or responsibility to help him.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

Rather than trying to enter the country visa exempt again he should apply for a non-o visa at a nearby embassy and then apply for a new extension.

 

Based on the description of the OP above, his friend might well have a problem financially qualifying for a new non-O visa not done in-country via an agent....

 

From the  OP:

 

"he has very little money available , living on his state uk pension, the oid lower rate"

 

[NancyL]

null

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

 

That always seems to be a great answer, but not realistic at least for the USA.

 

You "return home" there in your 70's without a relative waiting for you at the airport with a bedroom ready and you would find yourself homeless and probably die. There's no social worker or people there waiting for you. Your on your own.

The OP said that the man on OS went to the UK on holiday, so I assumed that was his home country and he had relatives/friend there.  Even if he doesn't, a UK national can come into Heathrow during M-F business hours and report to Travel Care for assistance.  

 

If an elderly person wants to return to the U.S. my suggestion would be different.  He can contact the U.S. Embassy's American Citizen Services group and ask for assistance prior to leaving Thailand.  They can help make arrangements for a suitable placement in the U.S. through the Health and Human Services department.  I've seen this done numerous times.  It takes a few weeks, and it's not like selecting a hotel on TripAdvisor, but someone will be met at the airport and receive suitable care upon arrival.

[edwardflory]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

"existing in 5,000 baht per month apartments"

Depending on WHERE you live, 5,000 baht is a decent price.  I am "existing" in a 8 year old, 3BR, 2 Bath, LARGE kitchen, living and dining room, 3 car carport, very small yard, 20 house QUIET village...hello Korat!

[The Fugitive]

2 minutes ago, edwardflory said:

Depending on WHERE you live, 5,000 baht is a decent price.  I am "existing" in a 8 year old, 3BR, 2 Bath, LARGE kitchen, living and dining room, 3 car carport, very small yard, 20 house QUIET village...hello Korat!

Absolutely! It all depends where you are. I first stayed in a basic apartment in Pattaya. That was 5,000 per month. Returning to Thailand last month got talking with a young guy who was revisiting Pattaya after a five year absence. He was very happy to have secured an apartment at the price he paid upon his last visit. The price being 5,000 baht per month.  

[Joinaman]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Is he able to vacate to a nearby country on his own and arrange a visa with all the procedures involved? It's not the easiest thing to do flying into Cambodia or Vietnam, getting a hotel, and finding the embassy, especially if your not young and agile.

 

It sounds like he's a little jittery.

not sure about this

he not far from the Lao border, but its the paperwork to get the non 0 visa that would be the problem, plus finding embassy and hotel

im down south now, so not able to help him, and it seems his Gf and her sisters dont really ant to know

maybe they are hoping he gets kicked out, so they can claim his house and car ?

Hes definitely struggling wit the mental things, he didnt even know he was talking to me on the phone, and ive known him 7 years now 

Thanks for everyone help. seems the best way is to go to the friendship bridge/border, pay the fine and then go to the embassy and try and get a non 0 visa

 

[Joinaman]

42 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Sounds as if the guy is 'losing it'. OP may feel some sympathy and/or responsibility to help him.

unfortunately i think he is

and the bad thing is im down on Koh Phangan, while he is up north east in Nakhon Phanom, so not easy

im going though another guy in the next village, who has no clue about visas, because my old mate cant use the internet, hardly uses his simple phone and cant use messaging or e mail much either 

 

[Joinaman]

44 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Based on the description of the OP above, his friend might well have a problem financially qualifying for a new non-O visa not done in-country via an agent....

 

From the  OP:

 

"he has very little money available , living on his state uk pension, the oid lower rate"

 

what cost is a new non0 visa from lao embassy?

i know he will have to pay crossing and the visa to enter Lao, plus tuk tuk and hotel, but thats not too bad if he can get the Non 0 visa which would buy him time ?

[Joinaman]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

 

That always seems to be a great answer, but not realistic at least for the USA.

 

You "return home" there in your 70's without a relative waiting for you at the airport with a bedroom ready and you would find yourself homeless and probably die. There's no social worker or people there waiting for you. Your on your own.

he only has a daughter left in the uk, who lives with boyfriend in a 1 bed flat

he sleeps on the sofa when he goes back to visit, but thats only for a few days before he returns 

if they send him back, how would that work ? put up in a hostel or something?

or is he just left homeless ?

not sure his daughter could cope with him for too long, especially if hes going senile or getting dementia 

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Yes forget it. His problem.

he does, but he finds it hard to listen or take things in

so we just walk away and leave a vulnerable old man to suffer, when we could at least try and help him know what to do?

If given the correct information from most of the helpful people on here, we cant force him to act on it, but there is much more chance he will do so, 

we are all getting older, and sometimes we all need a bit of help 

[Joinaman]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

He needs to leave the country and pay the fine at on departure from the country.

Rather than trying to enter the country visa exempt again he should apply for a non-o visa at a nearby embassy and then apply for a new extension.

can this fine only be paid at the borders? or can he pay at the local immigration office >

if so, can the same office get him a Non 0 visa too

Thanks Jo

just trying to see if there is any easier way to pay and get the visa, due to the [problems of him crossing an unknown border and all the paperwork 

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

he does, but he finds it hard to listen or take things in

so we just walk away and leave a vulnerable old man to suffer, when we could at least try and help him know what to do?

If given the correct information from most of the helpful people on here, we cant force him to act on it, but there is much more chance he will do so, 

we are all getting older, and sometimes we all need a bit of help 

You cant help people who wont help themselves.

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

 

That always seems to be a great answer, but not realistic at least for the USA.

 

You "return home" there in your 70's without a relative waiting for you at the airport with a bedroom ready and you would find yourself homeless and probably die. There's no social worker or people there waiting for you. Your on your own.

Western countries have dole. Public housing and pension.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

41 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

what cost is a new non0 visa from lao embassy?

I'm assuming he would be applying for a non-O visa based on retirement, not a legally married Thai spouse?

 

Apart from his travel expenses to a foreign country, AFAIK, the Thai embassy there for a retirement visa is going to want to see financial proof of....

 

--either at least 800,000 THB on deposit in a bank, OR monthly foreign pension income of at least 65,000 baht per month deposited into a Thai bank account.

 

"Retirement

At least 50 years old

A letter from a Thai bank certifying that the applicant holds a bank account with a fund of at least 800,000 baht; or a letter issued or certified by an Embassy/Consulate that the applicant has a monthly income of at least 65,000 baht
(or equivalent in other currency)."

 

Plus a 2,000 baht, non-refundable visa application fee.

 

https://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/en/non-o-visa/

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Joinaman]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm assuming he would be applying for a non-O visa based on retirement, not a legally married Thai spouse?

 

Apart from his travel expenses to a foreign country, AFAIK, the Thai embassy there for a retirement visa is going to want to see financial proof of....

 

--either at least 800,000 THB on deposit in a bank, OR monthly foreign pension income of at least 65,000 baht per month deposited into a Thai bank account.

 

"Retirement

At least 50 years old

A letter from a Thai bank certifying that the applicant holds a bank account with a fund of at least 800,000 baht; or a letter issued or certified by an Embassy/Consulate that the applicant has a monthly income of at least 65,000 baht
(or equivalent in other currency)."

 

https://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/en/non-o-visa/

 

 

 

ahh

then he has no chance of getting this Non 0 at an embassy then 

hes used an agent due to lack of funds in the bank, 

so either try and talk to the agent again, see if local  immigration can help, or just be stuck on 30 day visas

i know an agent can renew the 30 day visa without doing a border run, for a fee, which in the case of Laos, is a bit cheaper and easier

Thanks for your help

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

 

That always seems to be a great answer, but not realistic at least for the USA.

 

You "return home" there in your 70's without a relative waiting for you at the airport with a bedroom ready and you would find yourself homeless and probably die. There's no social worker or people there waiting for you. Your on your own.

Isn't USA style "freedom"/independence great?! In large measure I retired to a lower cost country because I cannot afford a working middle class retirement in my own country. It has worked out well for me here in Thailand but I know others struggle ... and still others can, evidently afford the millions of baht homes/condos and Long Stay Visas for the wealthy.

[amexpat]

3 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

plus 20k baht for the overstay fine.

 

[Mike Teavee]

30 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

ahh

then he has no chance of getting this Non 0 at an embassy then 

hes used an agent due to lack of funds in the bank, 

so either try and talk to the agent again, see if local  immigration can help, or just be stuck on 30 day visas

i know an agent can renew the 30 day visa without doing a border run, for a fee, which in the case of Laos, is a bit cheaper and easier

Thanks for your help

Please note that he'll only be able to do a border run using a land border twice in any one calendar year so that would be a max of 150 days (assuming he can get 45 day Visa exempt & extend it by 30 days twice) for the other 215 days he'll need to do border runs via air. 

 

I know it's probably a lot of money to him but It really does sound like the best & cheapest/easiest option overall is for him to pay the agent the 27k (+20K fine which he'll have to pay anyway) to get a new Non-Imm-O visa + 12 month extension so he'll be good for 15 months stay.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Mike Teavee

[Lemsta69]

19 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

yes, the OP already knows that, he mentioned it in his response to Mutt Daeng.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Lemsta69

[VinnieK]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I don't believe he will be granted a non O at any consulate, with that big stamp in his pport mentioning his overstay.

If he soldiers on as an  overstayer, immigration has his address already.

At some point his name will pop up in an immigration computer somewhere ..

I'm surprised it hasn't happened already. 

He needs to change address asap.

Sitting duck and all that 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by VinnieK

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, edwardflory said:

Depending on WHERE you live, 5,000 baht is a decent price.  I am "existing" in a 8 year old, 3BR, 2 Bath, LARGE kitchen, living and dining room, 3 car carport, very small yard, 20 house QUIET village...hello Korat!

Sounds good. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

44 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

 

i know an agent can renew the 30 day visa without doing a border run, for a fee, which in the case of Laos, is a bit cheaper and easier

Thanks for your help

Are you sure that is for a new visa exempt stamp and not just for a one time  extension ?

    You can only do two land border visa runs per calendar year and immigration take your photo at the border and stamp you in and out there 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

I really feel for the guy, but it looks as if he’s rapidly running out of options. If he has become so disorganised that he didn’t get a re-entry permit when he left Thailand, chances are that he no longer has the organisational skills to take any route other than negotiating the best deal he can with the agent; pronto.

 

With apparently very little in the way of financial resources, and the increasing likelihood of needing medical care as time goes by, a better option might well be, unfortunately, returning permanently to the UK, where he will have access to the NHS and other benefits; sad story, I wish him the best of luck

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, Joinaman said:

but didn't get a re entry permit before leaving ,

Peoples whole life's can change just because they forget to do a simple procedure .

   Had he done the re-entry  permit (which would have taken a few minutes at the airport prior to departure) he would have spent the rest of his life retired in Issan , now he could quite possible end up in a Thai IDC and then  back in the U.K homeless .

   One simple mistake with the visa can have a life changing consequence 

[CartagenaWarlock]

4 hours ago, Joinaman said:

hes even talking about not paying and living on overstay, saying what can they do to an old man 

He wants to assert his privileges. Why can't he do the same in his own country. Free medicals and may be he can find a free shelter. I am sure there must be free shelter in his own country. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

1 hour ago, Joinaman said:

if they send him back, how would that work ? put up in a hostel or something?

Homeless shelters? Don't they have in UK? USA has homeless shelters. Many homeless don't like those because one has to attend Church (What a cruel joke) and strictly adhere to their timings. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by CartagenaWarlock

[lazygourmet]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Western countries have dole. Public housing and pension.

And in Belgium assisted suicide is legal.