Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, RayC said:

I agree that we haven't had a decent government in a long while. I'd also suggest that no government during my adult life has been particularly adept at long-term planning.

 

You are also, of course, correct that what is posted here or - more often than not - in the media is opinion. However, most media opinion from reputable sources is backed by evidence supporting their view. I would also suggest that 'Remainers' on this board back up their arguments with links more often than not. It's possible that the evidence is flawed, but the onus is then on those opposing the proposition to point the flaws.

 

Unfortunately, the Brexiter argument presented in this forum almost invariably amounts to no more than the use of emotive words such as 'mafia', 'corrupt', etc. When challenged to back up these assertions with evidence, nothing is usually forthcoming.

When I lived in the UK I thought it was a mistake to have joined the political experiment of the EU and that it was at least something to have not gone into the monetary insanity ( see Greece for example ), but I couldn't give you a link to anything supporting my opinion. It was, more than anything, a feeling that the UK had made a mistake.

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When I lived in the UK I thought it was a mistake to have joined the political experiment of the EU and that it was at least something to have not gone into the monetary insanity ( see Greece for example ), but I couldn't give you a link to anything supporting my opinion. It was, more than anything, a feeling that the UK had made a mistake.

That thought probably wasn't based on economic issues.

 

Sir, Boris Johnson recently asserted that the “EU is a graveyard of low growth”. This claim merits proper examination to determine, precisely, how the UK, US, Germany and France have done since 1973, the year in which the UK joined the EU. Per capita GDP of the UK economy grew by 103%, exceeding the 97% growth of the US. Within the EU, the UK edged out Germany (99%) and clobbered France (74%).
 

https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/brexit/

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That thought probably wasn't based on economic issues.

 

Sir, Boris Johnson recently asserted that the “EU is a graveyard of low growth”. This claim merits proper examination to determine, precisely, how the UK, US, Germany and France have done since 1973, the year in which the UK joined the EU. Per capita GDP of the UK economy grew by 103%, exceeding the 97% growth of the US. Within the EU, the UK edged out Germany (99%) and clobbered France (74%).
 

https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/news/brexit/

LOL. The monetary goodies IMO never got down further than drones in the City swilling hundred quid bottles of wine on pavement cafes after a hard day at work moving money around and contributing nothing to society.

[ozimoron]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The monetary goodies IMO never got down further than drones in the City swilling hundred quid bottles of wine on pavement cafes after a hard day at work moving money around and contributing nothing to society.

That's always been the case and is precisely why I vote liberal.

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The monetary goodies IMO never got down further than drones in the City swilling hundred quid bottles of wine on pavement cafes after a hard day at work moving money around and contributing nothing to society.

The very people who planned and bankrolled Brexit which then handed them more power.

 

I Avery English coup, executed by the elite, for the elite and voted for by their victims.

[josephbloggs]

13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, some Labour working class people voted to Leave to protect their jobs and some rich Conservatives voted Remain because they wanted to employ cheap labour 

Oh, I am guessing you didn't watch the video then.

[nauseus]

16 hours ago, ozimoron said:

That's why the Russians continued their misinformation campaigns in election after election, because they had no effect?

If at first you don't succeed.....

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The very people who planned and bankrolled Brexit which then handed them more power.

 

I Avery English coup, executed by the elite, for the elite and voted for by their victims.

Bankrolled? LOL.

[Andrew65]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

I don't need  to prove how bad brexit has been, just ask those that have to live with the fallout.

Of course that would mean taking your head  out of the sand.

Well Sandy, maybe my head's in the sand, but I haven't really noticed anything in my daily life that's changed that much, either good or bad. There was COVID, where almost the entire country was effectively put on the dole for a year or so.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Bankrolled? LOL.

Yep, Bankrolled:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-campaign-arron-banks-jeremy-hosking-five-uk-richest-businessmen-peter-hargreaves-robert-edmiston-crispin-odey-a7699046.html

[Mavideol]

23 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Which would be the wrong answer .

in democracy people have the right to their (different) opinion, let's agree to disagree and will give the benefit of the doubt  555

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, RayC said:

I'd also suggest that no government during my adult life has been particularly adept at long-term planning.

The UK's woes in a nutshell, more concerned about the next election than the future.

The sad thing is there is no indication of learning from mistakes.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Well Sandy, maybe my head's in the sand, but I haven't really noticed anything in my daily life that's changed that much, either good or bad. There was COVID, where almost the entire country was effectively put on the dole for a year or so.

You mean you didn't feel the shackles falling off when Brexit took effect?

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Well Sandy, maybe my head's in the sand, but I haven't really noticed anything in my daily life that's changed that much, either good or bad. There was COVID, where almost the entire country was effectively put on the dole for a year or so.

Big difference, covid was a global pandemic, brexit is self inflicted injury.

The CEO of Next, an ardent brexiteer, has been on the air saying it is not the brexit he wanted.

Therin lies the problem, brexiteers had no common concept of what brexit was. There was no white paper outlining the way forward.That was the deliberate act of self harm, had there been a comprehensive white paper things wouldn't be where they are today.

Brexit had inflation written all over it but no one was prepared to say so, those that did ended up with "project fear" ringing in their ears.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11412163/Leave-voting-Tory-peer-CEO-says-Government-blocking-entry-needed-foreign-workers.html

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Big difference, covid was a global pandemic, brexit is self inflicted injury.

The CEO of Next, an ardent brexiteer, has been on the air saying it is not the brexit he wanted.

Therin lies the problem, brexiteers had no common concept of what brexit was. There was no white paper outlining the way forward.That was the deliberate act of self harm, had there been a comprehensive white paper things wouldn't be where they are today.

Brexit had inflation written all over it but no one was prepared to say so, those that did ended up with "project fear" ringing in their ears.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11412163/Leave-voting-Tory-peer-CEO-says-Government-blocking-entry-needed-foreign-workers.html

Can't let those foreign workers back, if they reverse that the whole motivation for brexit goes down the drain.

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK was already trading with the rest of the world before Brexit.

 

Membership of the EU was never a barrier to the UK trading with the rest of the world.

 

Brexit has inserted tariffs and quotas into the UK’s largest trading market, the EU.

 

The Brexiteer cry goes up ‘Get on with it’, but there’s nothing new to ‘get on with’, the hoped for trade deal with the US is revealed as a thing of fantasy and the UK doesn’t have enough skilled workers to fill the jobs it’s receding economy needs.

 

 

EU wasn't a problem with trading with the rest of the world what planet are you on. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

in democracy people have the right to their (different) opinion, let's agree to disagree and will give the benefit of the doubt  555

Yes, you have the right to be wrong  and you can be wrong and there's nothing that anyone can do about that .

   Our society accepts people who are wrong about things 

[Mavideol]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

EU wasn't a problem with trading with the rest of the world what planet are you on. 

I think you misread @Chomper Higgot post

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yep, Bankrolled:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-campaign-arron-banks-jeremy-hosking-five-uk-richest-businessmen-peter-hargreaves-robert-edmiston-crispin-odey-a7699046.html

Like remain were fundless? LOL.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

EU wasn't a problem with trading with the rest of the world what planet are you on. 

Care to elaborate. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

Care to elaborate. 

The E.U doesn't and didn't have a trade deal with the USA either .

Some people are saying it was a big mistake to leave the E.U because now we don't have a trade deal with the USA.....................but we didn't have a trade deal with the USA whilst a EU member either 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Can't let those foreign workers back, if they reverse that the whole motivation for brexit goes down the drain.

They were all given visas to stay and work in the UK and they can also now apply for working visas  . 

[dunroaming]

23 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The problems of Brexit are now starting g to be openly discussed in Mainstream Media.

 

No amount of denial, or head burying is going to hide the facts as they become increasingly obvious.

The promised sunlit uplands haven’t materialized, nor will they.

 

There are now numerous examples of u-turns about Brexit.  In fact it is hard to find anyone who admits to voting for it.  The boss of Next (a prominent brexiteer) has now come out pleading for the Prime Minister to relax immigration restrictions as he can't fill the vacancies he has.  When asked why, he said that this wasn't the Brexit that he voted for or that was promised to the people.

 

I have no idea why he should be surprised by that.  None of us are!

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They were all given visas to stay and work in the UK and they can also now apply for working visas  . 

I'm not surprised, when a rich Tory complains on the Daily Mail they probably usually get their way.

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The E.U doesn't and didn't have a trade deal with the USA either .

Some people are saying it was a big mistake to leave the E.U because now we don't have a trade deal with the USA.....................but we didn't have a trade deal with the USA whilst a EU member either 

That’s not what anyone is saying.

 

What I and others are saying is the Brexiteers made statements during the run up to the referendum that loss of trade privileges with the EU  (the world’s largest free trade market) would be compensated by new trade deals, the jewel of which would be an FTA with the US.

 

Brexiteers are now denying this, despite their anger when, after the vote, Obama told the UK it was at the back of the queue for an FTA.

 

The Brexiteer self delusion of a UK/US FTA being possible continued until a lettuce eventually told the truth.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Like remain were fundless? LOL.

Did I say they were?

 

Brexit funded by hedgefund manager who made millions by betting against the UK.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'm not surprised, when a rich Tory complains on the Daily Mail they probably usually get their way.

Errm , Which "Rich Tory " made what "complaint" to the Daily mail and about what  and what "way" did he get ?

  Or are you just writing nonsense ?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Errm , Which "Rich Tory " made what "complaint" to the Daily mail and about what  and what "way" did he get ?

  Or are you just writing nonsense ?

this one

 

https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/brexit-backer-next-boss-lord-25482506

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

EU wasn't a problem with trading with the rest of the world what planet are you on. 

I spent a couple of decades working around the ‘planet I’m on’  for a UK based company on multi $million/multi billion projects.

 

Nobody told me or my employers that the EU didn’t allow such behaviour. 
 

Brickies in a Cricklewood might have a different view.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

this one

 

https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/brexit-backer-next-boss-lord-25482506

That was an interview with the BBC published by business live and nothing to do with the Daily Mail and its a business owner wanting an endless supply of E.U workers for his businesses