She was a "friend" and I wanted to help her start a business I believed in. That was over a year ago. Now I get lie after lie and not "friends" anymore. Can anyone recommend a lawyer who will actually work for ME and not her or the police or anyone else. Is "honest lawyer" an oxymoron?

good luck.

 

How much is a lot of money?

Never lend what you can't afford to lose or give, especially in Thailand. A lawyer will probably just end up losing you more without any results.

Write it off and get on with the rest of your life. She has.

how can you even prove that she borrowed the money?

do you have a paper trail?

 

Write the business expense off your income tax

 

 

If you look up the definition of loan in a Thai dictionary it defines the word as meaning "to give".

 

Thanks for all this "good" advice. In full Agreement seems to be the best one 555

17 minutes ago, gingerandtabby said:

Can anyone recommend a lawyer who will actually work for ME and not her or the police

Why would a lawyer be interested in trying to get back a gift that you gave to her?   If you're a partner in the business then, maybe, you'd have a case, and. maybe, a lawyer or the police may be interested.   Try Tilleke and Gibbins if you want to waste more money, they've got, probably, the best reputation in Thailand.

Looked up Tilleke and Gibbons. They would probably fall down laughing at my measly (not to me) amount of a few hundred thousand B.

You must be stupid, posting the fact you lent/gave a Thai woman a lot of money,

opening yourself up to ridicule ,best to suck it up and put it down to an expensive

experience ,and hopefully learn from it. take solace your not the first and won't be

the last.

 

regards Worgeordie

 

7 minutes ago, gingerandtabby said:

Looked up Tilleke and Gibbons. They would probably fall down laughing at my measly (not to me) amount of a few hundred thousand B.

 

No, they will take your case seriously and charge their fees in advance. Depending on your choice of legal strategy you will be charged tens or hundreds of thousands of baht.

 

If the case can be proved and you get a judgement in your favour, remember that if the debtor has no fixed income or assets then you will still not receive any money.

I have a friend that was successful returning ~120k thb via the Police from a fraudulent visa Agent: documents provided to show proof of fraud was, among other things, chats and proof of transfer. With that said, when things "are clear" it's not that the entire country is lawless. 

However, when it comes to "loan" it's very difficult to take the anglo-saxon approach i.e. commonwealth law. She will probably argue, and win, that it was a gift, a semi-gift or another type of understanding. She might even argue that you got repaid in other means. 

If you were Thai, meaning that other Thais would put you in the same standing, you could of course try public shaming and scolding - to get it back. However, as you've probably figured out by now, we're not at the same social standing as Thais and if you would publicly scold her; her friends and family would most certainly only high-five her for her success. 

14 minutes ago, gingerandtabby said:

Looked up Tilleke and Gibbons. They would probably fall down laughing at my measly (not to me) amount of a few hundred thousand B.

Do you have a loan agreement on paper with her? Did she offer any collateral? Do you have any text messages about the loan? Where is she living?

8 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

If you were Thai, meaning that other Thais would put you in the same standing, you could of course try public shaming and scolding - to get it back. However, as you've probably figured out by now, we're not at the same social standing as Thais and if you would publicly scold her; her friends and family would most certainly only high-five her for her success. 

Absolute rubbish. Social standing through a nationality is nonsense, money talks. Public shaming would be very stupid as it could get you a jail sentence through the defamation law here. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I think it's against Thai law to lend money unless you are a registered lender in Thailand. I have to admit to getting stung when I first came here. The poster has nothing to feel silly for. To save time and effort you need to write it off. The police won't help and that's for sure.

Put it down to a life experience .................

Looks like this loan agreement could be enforceable?

 

https://thailand.themispartner.com/business-contracts/loan-agreement/

57 minutes ago, gingerandtabby said:

She was a "friend" and I wanted to help her start a business I believed in.

Obviously it's too easy for all of us to laugh and say we would never have done something like that. Yeah, sure, this is why we all have the experience how (not to) get the money back...

 

Maybe try to look at this problem from another angle. Did she borrow it and there was never any business? Did she use it for the business? And was that business successful and she could give the money back to you? Or was it a failure, also for her, and she just doesn't have any money anymore?

And if the business does currently not make (enough) money, it is just a stupid business idea or could it make money if it would be better managed?

If there is a business and if it could be successful, then maybe you could ask her: How can I help you with your business? Maybe I look at the books or maybe I have some other ideas.

 

Is this all realistic and will this help to get your money back? Maybe not. But maybe it is good for all involved to try together to make the best out of the situation.

 

Carpe diem

 

 

Unless the loan was made as a loan with all the correct documentations, assurances and guaranty in place it will be next to impossible to get any of it back, i know this lady lawyer in Pattaya who could help if like i said, you have a leg to stand on...

Don’t lend money to Thais here, you give. It’s a gift from a foreigner. It’s just the way it is here for most, not all.

 

If you want to lend money for a business, then get an attorney to put your name on the business, 49% before you give.
 

Thais usually use reputation and public shaming on social media to retrieve their funds, then retract the comments when paid. It works, I’ve seen it many times. Though sorry, this method will not work for foreigners.

1 hour ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

 

If you look up the definition of loan in a Thai dictionary it defines the word as meaning "to give".

 

 

 

Yes “loan” becomes “gift” in 5 easy steps.
Loan —-> Loon —-> Loot —-> Loft —-> Lift —->Gift

 

Sorry, but you won’t get the money back. Don’t waste time finding a lawyer because you will be throwing good money after bad. 
 

If you go to the police, they will say it is breach of contract and not theft. As it is not a crime they won’t help you and will tell you to go to lawyer.

 

 

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, gingerandtabby said:

Looked up Tilleke and Gibbons. They would probably fall down laughing at my measly (not to me) amount of a few hundred thousand B.

Agree, they handle other accounts.

Even in a Western country it would be your word against hers, and she is a women and you are but a man.

1 hour ago, gingerandtabby said:

She was a "friend" and I wanted to help her start a business I believed in. That was over a year ago. Now I get lie after lie and not "friends" anymore. Can anyone recommend a lawyer who will actually work for ME and not her or the police or anyone else. Is "honest lawyer" an oxymoron?

Others have said, learn from life's experience and move on.

 

Whilst this is good advice, revenge is bitter sweet, even though you were in my opinion more the fool for lending her the money without some form of security, i.e. like the banks do, you want a loan, what have you that we can seize if you forfeit any payments or don't pay the loan back.

 

Putting one foot forward, I would suggest in future you use the word NO forever when it comes to lending money to anyone, once, twice, three times eventually we all learn.

 

Just moving forward would leave a bitter taste in my mouth of defeat, so I would go all out on trying to bring her business down, that said, you have to really sit down and look at the business she has and what ways you can bring her to her knees, there is always a way, and when you finally do, you can smile in her face, letting her know it was you who brought her down.

 

In other words, you won't get your money back, but at least you will stop her from going forward with your money, ain't life a bitch.

1 minute ago, JackGats said:

Even in a Western country it would be your word against hers, and she is a women and you are but a man.

and we can assume not a Thai 

 

please run into a blunt object at groin height for a proper response to your dilemma. 

But she's different Batman................................

6 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Whilst this is good advice, revenge is bitter sweet, even though you were in my opinion more the fool for lending her the money without some form of security, i.e. like the banks do, you want a loan, what have you that we can seize if you forfeit any payments or don't pay the loan back.

 

Putting one foot forward, I would suggest in future you use the word NO forever when it comes to lending money to anyone, once, twice, three times eventually we all learn.

 

Just moving forward would leave a bitter taste in my mouth of defeat, so I would go all out on trying to bring her business down, for example, if she does deliveries, make it COD to an address that you don't live at, you have to really sit down and look at the business she has and what ways you can bring her to her knees, there is always a way, and when you finally do, you can smile in her face, letting her know it was you who brought her down.

 

In other words, you won't get your money back, but at least you will stop her from going forward with your money, ain't life a bitch.

What inspires one to such malice. 
Forget about it, stop thinking about it and move on. You’ll be much happier.