PRESS RELEASE: End Frozen Pensions For British Ex-Pats In Thailand

[noobexpat]

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

So today we have people drawing non state pensions that have been partially funded from NI contributions. At the time the law changed I was over 40 and the advice was not to contract out so 100% of my NI contributions went to the state system. My state pension comprises the basic state pension and 4 other components reflecting the changes over the years. 

 

Technically you're off a bit with some other parts but i'll leave it.

So the end bit - People opted out of serps and swapped a guaranteed income (paid by the state) for investment risk via their own personal arrangement, with zero guarantee.

 

To understand this subject, you need to know the differences between COMP, CIMP, defined benefit schemes and the interaction with historical features like the pre 1997 GMP and its deferment and escalation requirements. 

 

I can tell you now, unless you did this in some professional capacity, you will never fully understand it. Not even close.

 

 

 

[Greenhill]

On 7/29/2023 at 10:43 AM, cracker1 said:

You would still need the UK Government to agree to reciprocate with Thai pensioners living in the UK.

Why???

[maxcorrigan]

23 hours ago, mikebell said:

 

My daughter discovered this by accident when she inexplicably received a notice of coding sent to her address in Yorkshire.  (This after NOT receiving anything for years either there or in Thailand.)  So I checked the YouGov site to find they had credited me with a full State Pension of 10K & not what I was receiving (nearer 5000!)

On my next UK visit we phoned up; endured the hour waiting for a human.  We were told the fault lay with the DWP.  Again with the wait only to be told in no uncertain terms that they had sent the reduced rate HMRC every year as it never varied for 15 years (I am 81.)  So back we went & eventually got through to an operative who went the extra mile.  He confirmed my worst fears: I have been taxed on money I never received.

 

You could start here - www.gov.uk/complain-about-hmrc

 

I have received over 5K in back tax for two years with a promise of some more for one other year tho' this has not been forthcoming nor anything for the previous dozen or so years!

Thanks Mike will give it a go, have lived in Thailand for 10 yrs have heard about this the DWP being bone idle (probably working from home) and not passing on the frozen pension info. to the tax office, thanks again! 

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, noobexpat said:

 

Lol ...first sentence. Wrong! as part of my studies i had to learn every pension and social security act.

 

When graduated ended in 1975 ...but serps started in 1978. What happened in between those 3 years? That can be your homework.

Indeed, that was a slip on my part having recently referred to AFPS75 which came into effect in April 1975.

However it does not detract from the point in question that in the initial period of SERPS only a certain part of the population were allowed to contract out.

I will treat your last comment with the contempt it deserves.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, noobexpat said:

To understand this subject, you need to know the differences between COMP, CIMP, defined benefit schemes and the interaction with historical features like the pre 1997 GMP and its deferment and escalation requirements. 

Wrong, I do not need to know your "better than thou" deflections.

All that people need to know is how some were able to redirect part of their NI contributions and then receive any benefit index linked no matter where they live.

Nothing to do with numbers or how they are derived, it is all about principles, something you obviously cannot comprehend.

[sandyf]

On 11/13/2023 at 9:18 AM, mikebell said:

He confirmed my worst fears: I have been taxed on money I never received.

I was in the same position,  just claimed it back every may, bit of a bonus for the holidays.

[Ben Zioner]

On 7/27/2023 at 11:24 AM, BritManToo said:

Don't tell them where you live.

Abusing the system, don't you? Whingeing Pom.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Abusing the system, don't you? Whingeing Pom.

No whining from me, I'm very happy with my full Brit pension.

[mikebell]

23 hours ago, maxcorrigan said:

Thanks Mike will give it a go, have lived in Thailand for 10 yrs have heard about this the DWP being bone idle (probably working from home) and not passing on the frozen pension info. to the tax office, thanks again! 

According to DWP, HMRC were the guilty ones.

[beautifulthailand99]

It will never happen Britain is more than bust and monies for folks living abroad and forgotten will be nobodies priority. But campaign away if it makes you happy. Indeed, highlighting it will only spark off some eagle-eyed bean counter to work out how to link up bank accounts, home office passport entry/exit to UK and DWP computers to determine residence and then stop any fraudulent claims and even backdate them if thought necessary. You can see some Sir Humphrey shilling 100s of mullions savings to the minister and getting a gong for it.

 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/23903863.dwp-plan-monitor-benefit-claimants-bank-accounts/

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Indeed, highlighting it will only spark off some eagle-eyed bean counter to work out how to link up bank accounts, home office passport entry/exit to UK and DWP computers to determine residence and then stop any fraudulent claims and even backdate them if thought necessary.

I don't believe UK border control keep records of citizens entry/exits, so therefore not possible at this time.

[treetops]

On 11/16/2023 at 1:10 AM, BritManToo said:

I don't believe UK border control keep records of citizens entry/exits, so therefore not possible at this time.

Data is collected by the airlines as API and submitted to the government so it would be possible to track people if they put their minds to it.

[samtam]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:10 AM, BritManToo said:

I don't believe UK border control keep records of citizens entry/exits, so therefore not possible at this time.

 

I think they do. If you overstay your days allowed as a non resident, you will be subject to UK tax.

[samtam]

Quote

Millions of state pensioners will receive the biggest pay rise on record next spring, as confirmed by Chancellor Jeremy Hunt in the latest Autumn Statement.

Thanks to the “triple lock” policy, the full new state pension will surpass £11,000 for the first time ever in April 2024, rising to £11,502.40, up from the current payment of £10,600.20 a year.

The basic state pension, paid to those who reached the state pension age before 2016, would rise by more than £600 to £8,814 annually.

The policy, which was a key Conservative manifesto pledge in the last election, promises to increase the state pension every April in line with the highest out of the previous September’s Consumer Price Index measure of inflation (CPI), wage growth or 2.5pc. For 2024/25, the rise will be in-line with wage growth, at 8.5pc.

But this bumper pay rise will come at a massive cost to the Government, and questions were raised earlier this year about whether it might be changed, or scrapped altogether. At a time of mounting political pressure to get public finances under control, the state pension triple lock has become a key area of debate. 

Above from The Telegraph today.

 

I received my first State Pension on 31 March 2023. By the time of the increase next April, it will be GBP2000 pa more than I am getting, because mine was frozen WEF from my eligible date, (6 days prior to the increase this year).  

[keeffy48]

On 7/27/2023 at 11:41 AM, simon43 said:

P*ssing in the wind!  You have more chance if you lobbied the Thai government to implement a reciprocal agreement with the UK, as did The Philippines.

As of  Dec 2022 the countries where UK pensions are not frozen and are increased as standard each year include the USA, Barbados, Bermuda, Israel, Jamaica, Mauritius, the Philippines, and all EU countries.

[beautifulthailand99]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:10 AM, BritManToo said:

I don't believe UK border control keep records of citizens entry/exits, so therefore not possible at this time.

They have done so for some time  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exit-checks-on-passengers-leaving-the-uk/exit-checks-fact-sheet  what will be the game changer is the joinging up of the various govermental and banking computers.Big Brother is indeed here and is watching you already.

[scubascuba3]

13 hours ago, samtam said:

 

I think they do. If you overstay your days allowed as a non resident, you will be subject to UK tax.

they have different lanes usually, that's one of the problems they couldn't track EU people coming and going

[sandyf]

Sir Peter Bottomley 

(Worthing West) (Con)

Sharethis specific contribution

 

May I now ask the Chancellor to respond, not today but in time, to an injustice done to 500,000 pensioners overseas? Anne Puckridge, who was born five years before the Chancellor’s father, served in intelligence in the Navy, the Army and the Royal Air Force during the war, and retired to Calgary on a pension of £72 a week. It is still £72, instead of £156. That is an injustice which needs attention, and I hope Anne Puckridge will get it and we will have proposals that will enable us to change this bad situation.

 

Jeremy Hunt 

Sharethis specific contribution

I thank the Father of the House for his comments, and I will look into the issue of overseas pensioners as he requested. If I may, I will write to him, but I am also happy to talk to him about it.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2023-11-22/debates/82998B02-2E62-4E48-81C2-F2B8647C83CD/AutumnStatement#contribution-08AD7CF9-585D-4C9E-8988-9C1C9F17E9F5

[kimamey]

On 7/27/2023 at 2:04 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

No, we cannot. 

It has been tried and debated for donkeys years, has always been rejected and will continue to be so regardless of the handful of expats here in Thailand who join in (assuming that they have not previously added their names to the numerous existing petitions that have no effect, whatsoever, regardless of which government is in power).

It was mentioned in the Labour manifesto for the 2019 election, which they lost of course. I don't know if there will be anything in the next one. The economy is predicable a bit weak at the moment and there are a lot of other things that need fixing. 

As more people move abroad, and they will be able to vote after 15 years it might become more difficult to ignore. 

[sandyf]

22 minutes ago, kimamey said:

As more people move abroad,

That is not the case. Nett migration is the difference between people coming to the country and people leaving.The reduction in people leaving, less than 100K last year, makes it appear that immigration is on the increase. This has prompted recent anti immigration policy.

I  have seen more media coverage of the frozen pension in the last year than in the last 25 years and may be a contributing factor in the emigration reduction.

Removing the frozen pension could well promote emigration and reduce the immigration figure but the government is too narrow minded to see the bigger picture.

[superal]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

That is not the case. Nett migration is the difference between people coming to the country and people leaving.The reduction in people leaving, less than 100K last year, makes it appear that immigration is on the increase. This has prompted recent anti immigration policy.

I  have seen more media coverage of the frozen pension in the last year than in the last 25 years and may be a contributing factor in the emigration reduction.

Removing the frozen pension could well promote emigration and reduce the immigration figure but the government is too narrow minded to see the bigger picture.

Digressing slightly . Yesterday the labour leader Keir Starmer said that if the labour party are elected this year , they will retain the triple lock system on the UK state pension . That is a commitment which has not been promised by Jeremy Hunt , C.O.E.

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, superal said:

Digressing slightly . Yesterday the labour leader Keir Starmer said that if the labour party are elected this year , they will retain the triple lock system on the UK state pension . That is a commitment which has not been promised by Jeremy Hunt , C.O.E.

New leader - new ideas.

 

“The next Labour Government will treat all our pensioners equally, wherever they live, and ensure that overseas pensions are levelled up not down when Britain leaves the EU.”

https://frozenbritishpensions.org/jeremy-corbyn-gives-labours-backing-pension-unfreezing/

[superal]

19 hours ago, sandyf said:

New leader - new ideas.

 

“The next Labour Government will treat all our pensioners equally, wherever they live, and ensure that overseas pensions are levelled up not down when Britain leaves the EU.”

https://frozenbritishpensions.org/jeremy-corbyn-gives-labours-backing-pension-unfreezing/

That was a J. Corbyn statement from 2017 . Do you think they will honour that now ? They would certainly get a lot of election votes .

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, superal said:

That was a J. Corbyn statement from 2017 . Do you think they will honour that now ? They would certainly get a lot of election votes .

Party policy should just that irrespective of who said it or how long ago. Sad situation if the leader doesn't reflect party policy.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that opposition often advocate what suits at the time, but selective memory kicks in if the opportunity to do something ever comes about.

Brexit highlighted how the frozen pension legislation can be manipulated to suit the government.

 

Brexit is a key driver behind the current developments. British expats in Europe are fearful that without the protection of the social security provisions of the single market, they may too end up with a frozen pension. Given its longstanding position to uprate “only where there is a legal responsibility to do so”, unless a new bilateral deal is specifically negotiated as part of the exit deal, the government would find itself in a very difficult position, potentially either having to freeze 492,000 more pensioners to be consistent, or offering unilateral uprating entitlement for European resident pensioners, and not those elsewhere. The simplest option, offering immediate comfort to worried EU resident pensioners would be to unilaterally change policy now and offer all overseas pensioners the same up-rating entitlement. Global Pension Parity has long been the aim of the ICBP’s campaign.

https://frozenbritishpensions.org/jeremy-corbyn-gives-labours-backing-pension-unfreezing/

[superal]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Party policy should just that irrespective of who said it or how long ago. Sad situation if the leader doesn't reflect party policy.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that opposition often advocate what suits at the time, but selective memory kicks in if the opportunity to do something ever comes about.

Brexit highlighted how the frozen pension legislation can be manipulated to suit the government.

 

Brexit is a key driver behind the current developments. British expats in Europe are fearful that without the protection of the social security provisions of the single market, they may too end up with a frozen pension. Given its longstanding position to uprate “only where there is a legal responsibility to do so”, unless a new bilateral deal is specifically negotiated as part of the exit deal, the government would find itself in a very difficult position, potentially either having to freeze 492,000 more pensioners to be consistent, or offering unilateral uprating entitlement for European resident pensioners, and not those elsewhere. The simplest option, offering immediate comfort to worried EU resident pensioners would be to unilaterally change policy now and offer all overseas pensioners the same up-rating entitlement. Global Pension Parity has long been the aim of the ICBP’s campaign.

https://frozenbritishpensions.org/jeremy-corbyn-gives-labours-backing-pension-unfreezing/

Corbyn was ostracised from the labour party . Now that could be a reason for not adopting the pledge .

[noobexpat]

How much will it cost?

Expectation of back-payments?

Which department gets less because state pension needs more? - i forget exactly to whom NI payments are distributed.

 

No point with hopes & dreams if its crazy expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chivas]

On 11/16/2023 at 1:10 AM, BritManToo said:

I don't believe UK border control keep records of citizens entry/exits, so therefore not possible at this time.

 

lol I can utterly and totally debunk that myth !! Am not going into details lol but rest assured the British Government can establish what "country" you are in in 30 seconds flat as I once found out to my detriment lol

 

Totally unrelated to the above but entirely relevant and in same vain I had an arrest warrant out for me back in 2014 when unknown to me after vile libellous shight was hurled at me on a football forum of being a kiddie fiddler (outrageous) I hurled back at the moron who was enraged when I stated in response that he was an out and out bee*** lol totally justified because he was.....He was a Labour Counciller who went to the Police with accusations of homophobic abuse

 

Anyway its relevant to the thread because the first thing Police do when warrants are issued are to check home address and if the individual has a passport and if so "is it in use"

 

Mine was. Bantering with Plod in the squad car back to Heathrow Central I asked how they knew I was on that flight. They told me a marker is put on the passport and as soon as you check in wherever you are in the World the reception commitee await you

 

Not my finest hour getting hauled off Eithad with every sod having been told to sit down and wait lol

 

in short the British Governments knows exactly where you are if a passport has been utilised

 

(Edited in....Charge was dropped in 5 minutes flat back at Police Station with the interviewing officer with his head in his hands when I was allowed to open laptop and show the original kiddie fiddler jibe lol.....his words "they never give us the full story" lol )

[scottiejohn]

3 minutes ago, Chivas said:

in short the British Governments knows exactly where you if a passport has been utilised

Only If it is being used for a current flight!

 

They are not going to be checking the passports, even if they could, of the last use of a passport FROM the UK for expats etc, unless you are a MAJOR criminal, even if they could!

[scottiejohn]

6 minutes ago, Chivas said:

rest assured the British Government can establish what "country" you are in in 30 seconds flat 

Rubbish;  

See my post above!

[Chivas]

^^^

 

Fella am telling you otherwise. I have every reason to know. 7.5 months worth lol