Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[webfact]

Thailand’s revenue departments has released new guidelines which will see all income from abroad taxed as personal income tax regardless of whether it was earned income or savings.

 

A senior official at the Ministry of Finance confirmed a document released by the revenue department over the weekend was accurate.

 

According to the document

 

“…those that have earnings from occupation or business abroad or wealth that is located abroad…and has brought these assets into Thailand…

 

must factor this into their personal income tax for the year.”

 

by Thai Enquirer

 

Full story: THAI ENQUIRER 2023-09-18

 

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[connda]

Eventually someone is going to write, "Does that mean farang's pension income too."

Short answer would probably be "No," at least for those countries with bilateral tax agreements with Thailand.  If you're paying income tax in your home countries, then Thailand has no claim to tax the income twice.

[seajae]

so does this mean all incoming money transfers from abroad, if so will they will be taxing pensions as well when they are transferred from other countries, sounds more like a huge money grab by the government if it does, they should only be able to tax money earnt from Thailand not savings etc that were/are earned in other countries. This will be challenged as it is outright theft if the money has nothing to do with Thailand earnings, only the country where it is earned or banked have the right to any taxes from it, the finer details are needed to make sure what they plan to do is legal and not jut a way to rip farangs off 

Edited September 18, 2023 by seajae

[Mike Teavee]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

Eventually someone is going to write, "Does that mean farang's pension income too."

Short answer would probably be "No," at least for those countries with bilateral tax agreements with Thailand.  If you're paying income tax in your home countries, then Thailand has no claim to tax the income twice.

Could be they claim it & force you to reclaim it via a Tax Return in Thailand or your home country or both. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[freeworld]

8 minutes ago, connda said:

Eventually someone is going to write, "Does that mean farang's pension income too."

Short answer would probably be "No," at least for those countries with bilateral tax agreements with Thailand.  If you're paying income tax in your home countries, then Thailand has no claim to tax the income twice.

Probably if tax resident in Thailand one would need to submit a tax return and then the DTA would discount the tax already paid and evidence would be submitted or you pay the tax in Thailand and claim relief/refund in ones home country.

 

I guess the accountancy profession is going to flourish.

Edited September 18, 2023 by freeworld

[fondue zoo]

Sooo, how will the Thai rich get around this?

[ezzra]

For all we know, that could open the flood gates for other money grabs by the government now...

[lordgrinz]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I guess I could just stop sending anything over here, which is fine with me.

[jvs]

More info needed for sure but if it means retirees have to pay tax here

there will be not enough airplanes going back to Europe and other countries.

It will be a total disaster for many people including me.

Lets just wait for the small print before getting all worried and hope for the best.

On the other hand,if you have to pay tax here it should also give you some rights?

Probably not.

[Isaan sailor]

Thailand to tourists—please come.

Thailand to expats—please leave.

[Mike Teavee]

5 minutes ago, ezzra said:

For all we know, that could open the flood gates for other money grabs by the government now...

I've always thought that the guys using the >65K pm income method for their retirement extensions are leaving themselves open to having to pay tax on it.

 

Obviously some income streams like state pensions may be exempt but private pensions would seem to be fair game, even if they've already paid tax on the income in their home countries. 

[mikebell]

2 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I guess I could just stop sending anything over here, which is fine with me.

But how will you live?  I save up my pension & send 5K UKP a number of times a year; will I be taxed on that?  I have 800K in a Thai bank & they tax the interest on that.  Is that reclaimable?

[bdenner]

I'm thinking a lot of you have your "nickers in a twist" over an item that will not effect you!

[freeworld]

21 minutes ago, ezzra said:

For all we know, that could open the flood gates for other money grabs by the government now...

Its not a money grab if it follows the law or new laws are implemented for govt to get new sources of income.

 

No doubt foreigners residing in Thailand and making use of govt services and infrastructure should be paying tax in Thailand, this is a fuction of the world order.

 

I thought everyone is agreeable to paying their fair share? This is the mantra spewed by many.

 

Its all about being free.

Edited September 18, 2023 by freeworld

[Shop mak]

From the link in op

 

It is unclear at this point how this will apply to foreigners living in Thailand on a retirement visa."

 

Many contries has tax treaty with Thailand, so I guess we just have to wait and see.

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, mikebell said:

But how will you live?  I save up my pension & send 5K UKP a number of times a year; will I be taxed on that?  I have 800K in a Thai bank & they tax the interest on that.  Is that reclaimable?

We have already moved more to living off my wife's salary, I keep all my assets in the USA gaining higher interest, and for stock trading. We sat down a long time ago, studying how we could use our money to build our wealth for retirement and our daughters education, rather than waste it. There is no interest here on accounts, and stock trading here would be crazy. Like you, I keep about 1 Million baht in one bank account here (half for IO purposes, other half for spending). There is just more money to be made investing outside of Thailand, we only bring money in when we need it (new cars, or another condo buy), but usually only  if the BHT/USD conversion rate is too good to ignore. 

[Ohyesuare]

9 minutes ago, mikebell said:

But how will you live?  I save up my pension & send 5K UKP a number of times a year; will I be taxed on that?  I have 800K in a Thai bank & they tax the interest on that.  Is that reclaimable?

Yeah it's reclaimable if you want to go through the hassle.

[freeworld]

7 minutes ago, Shop mak said:

From the link in op

 

It is unclear at this point how this will apply to foreigners living in Thailand on a retirement visa."

 

Many contries has tax treaty with Thailand, so I guess we just have to wait and see.

Its about tax residence ie basically 180 days over living in Thailand and one is considered tax resident, nothing to do with a visa length or immigration.

Edited September 18, 2023 by freeworld

[impulse]

Sitting here in a hotel on Soi 16 and I heard what sounded like 10,000 butts puckering.

 

I figured out why when I read this headline.

 

[jvs]

6 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Its not a money grab if it follows the law or new laws are implemented for govt to get new sources of income.

 

No doubt foreigners residing in Thailand and making use of govt services and infrastructure should be paying tax in Thailand, this is a fuction of the world order.

 

I thought everyone is agreeable to paying their fair share? This is the mantra spewed by many.

 

Its all about being free.

We all pay tax here,not income tax maybe but we do pay,

Paying your fair share usually gives you some kind of right also,this is also a function of the world order.

We get nothing for free here.

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, freeworld said:

Its about tax residence ie basically 180 days over living in Thailand and one is considered tax resident.

In the USA we are tax residents of the USA no matter where we live, thankfully there is a tax treaty between the USA and Thailand.

[doctormann]

1 minute ago, lordgrinz said:

In the USA we are tax residents of the USA no matter where we live, thankfully there is a tax treaty between the USA and Thailand.

I believe that there is also a tax treaty between UK and Thailand.

[Kenny202]

"Tax resident" and their definition of same may be the key here. I would assume something they are doing to combat offshore laundering? If they are simply going to tax pensions or people transferring money over here I will be out of here in 6 months. Surely even Thailand wouldn't have the audacity to do that. Must be looking for extra $$$ to fund there 10000 baht per person election promise / giveaway 

[QuantumQuandry]

Whether it affects me directly or not, the more 'new laws' that affect retirees they came out with, the less I want to invest (or even keep) any money in Thailand, at all.

 

Even if this one doesn't affect me...or I can live with the new retiree rules being proposed...who knows what they will come up with next.

[mokwit]

25 minutes ago, jvs said:

More info needed for sure but if it means retirees have to pay tax here

there will be not enough airplanes going back to Europe and other countries.

It will be a total disaster for many people including me.

Involuntarily if they introduce a requirement of "All Thai taxes paid" as a way of making retirement extensions less "easy". They already link to the Revenue Department database for checking tax status with non B for work apparently.

[freeworld]

4 minutes ago, jvs said:

We all pay tax here,not income tax maybe but we do pay,

Paying your fair share usually gives you some kind of right also,this is also a function of the world order.

We get nothing for free here.

We all pay tax vat, customs, airport duties etc...whichever country that may be.

 

Even many Thais themselves get nothing for free.

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, jvs said:

We get nothing for free here.

If you didn't get mugged last night walking on the sidewalk, you're enjoying for free the benefits of tax money spent on police and sidewalks.

 

[freeworld]

7 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

"Tax resident" and their definition of same may be the key here. I would assume something they are doing to combat offshore laundering? If they are simply going to tax pensions or people transferring money over here I will be out of here in 6 months. Surely even Thailand wouldn't have the audacity to do that. Must be looking for extra $$$ to fund there 10000 baht per person election promise / giveaway 

They are going to tax it if brought into Thailand.

 

OECD, G20, G7 all want every bit of income on earth to be taxed and pressure all countries outside of those groups to comply with their financial and taxation agreements and hence all the meetings and agreements between governments to achieve this.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

all income from abroad taxed as personal income tax regardless of whether it was earned income or savings.

This is not just earned income or capital gains.  It seems to mean any funds that "in come" to Thailand will be considered income and taxed, including from personal savings.

 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

…those that have earnings from occupation or business abroad or wealth that is located abroad…and has brought these assets into Thailand…

 

must factor this into their personal income tax for the year.”

And this would confirm it.  Wise transfers from a personal savings accounts outside Thailand would then be considered taxable income.

 

We'll see, but I suspect requiring expats to file Thai tax refund forms every year to maybe get back some of the 15% on their savings they brought in over the year may result in a good number moving elsewhere.

 

Expats living on their savings and interest, not earning enough to pay tax in their home countries, may not find the relevant tax treaties to be relevant.

 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Could be they claim it & force you to reclaim it via a Tax Return in Thailand or your home country or both. 

Could also be that the individual amount of pension received by some folks is under the Thai personl tax threshhold.