Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, nausea said:

Killing women and children is never good, the guys can look after themselves, acceptance of sudden death sort of comes with the territory, it defines us - old fashioned guy. 

You're largely right.

I would qualify on women if they're active soldiers / terrorists.

What's going on is Gaza is with no doubt horrific. 

But what I reject if you or anyone is implying it, is that it is IDF policy to intentionally kill innocent civilians as targets. That is NOT IDF policy. 

It is IDF policy to accept that as they go after Hamas terrorist targets.

All armies in war do that.

They make a calculation. 

Are those casualties "worth it" considering the actual target?

It can be argued well that Israel in this current war has gone too far with that calculation in accepting too many civilian casualties relative to the military goal.

I can't fully judge that as I don't know what they know but I don't criticize people who make that accusation now -- as I get that it DOES look that way.

Back to INTENTIONS -- Hamas on October 7 INTENDED to target innocent civilians (and take them as hostages).

Hamas in Gaza DEFINITELY and INTENTIONALLY uses civilians as human shields.

I know this gets groans from the "Free Palestine" brigade, but no October 7, and what's happening now in Gaza would not be happening.

 

[MangoKorat]

5 hours ago, Morch said:

 

More BS.

 

Are you simply short of things to say?

[Morch]

Just now, MangoKorat said:

Are you simply short of things to say?

 

On the contrary.

But since you admit to not reading posts (or rather, having a lively imagination about their content) anyway, no point.

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

On the contrary.

But since you admit to not reading posts (or rather, having a lively imagination about their content) anyway, no point.

You seem to have a problem understanding the English language - either that or seeing your posts online gives you a feeing of grandeur.  I was previously accused of dodging questions and I've simply explained why I didn't reply for a couple of days.

 

I have placed 2 people who I refuse to debate further with on ignore - however, even when somebody is on ignore - notifications that they have posted are still received.  On the offchance that some of those posts were aimed at me, I explained why I had not responded.

 

Nothing wrong with that and no need for you to poke your nose in.  You can now join them.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

You seem to have a problem understanding the English language - either that or seeing your posts online gives you a feeing of grandeur.  I was previously accused of dodging questions and I've simply explained why I didn't reply for a couple of days.

 

I have placed 2 people who I refuse to debate further with on ignore - however, even when somebody is on ignore - notifications that they have posted are still received.  On the offchance that some of those posts were aimed at me, I explained why I had not responded.

 

Nothing wrong with that and no need for you to poke your nose in.  You can now join them.

 

No. That's just you blabbering. What you posted was pretty clear, and it was nonsense.

Same goes for your silly (and wrong) views about posters' opinions and positions on a whole range of issues. Pretty much clueless.

 

Funny enough, even the 'ignore' game is something more associated with 'your' team on these topics.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Morch

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're largely right.

I would qualify on women if they're active soldiers / terrorists.

What's going on is Gaza is with no doubt horrific. 

But what I reject if you or anyone is implying it, is that it is IDF policy to intentionally kill innocent civilians as targets. That is NOT IDF policy. 

It is IDF policy to accept that as they go after Hamas terrorist targets.

All armies in war do that.

They make a calculation. 

Are those casualties "worth it" considering the actual target?

It can be argued well that Israel in this current war has gone too far with that calculation in accepting too many civilian casualties relative to the military goal.

I can't fully judge that as I don't know what they know but I don't criticize people who make that accusation now -- as I get that it DOES look that way.

Back to INTENTIONS -- Hamas on October 7 INTENDED to target innocent civilians (and take them as hostages).

Hamas in Gaza DEFINITELY and INTENTIONALLY uses civilians as human shields.

I know this gets groans from the "Free Palestine" brigade, but no October 7, and what's happening now in Gaza would not be happening.

 

 

How could it not be IDF policy. They knew the civilians were there and they knew 2,000 pound bombs dropped on refugee camps would kill lots of them. They were right.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

How could it not be IDF policy. They knew the civilians were there and they knew 2,000 pound bombs dropped on refugee camps would kill lots of them. They were right.

 

@ozimoron

 

More of your ongoing nonsense. How many Gazan casualties are directly attributed to the use of these specific bombs?

[Rimmer]

Way off topic troll post quoting from the book of Exodus has been removed. 

Please see our Community Standards

[Bkk Brian]

@nypost: The House Foreign Affairs Committee expects to launch an investigation into UNRWA, under fire for supporting terrorism after Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack. 

“The rot is systemic,” said Hillel Neuer, head of UN Watch, who said he would be eager to cooperate with the probe.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Some time ago but should have been a warning to all concerned...........

 

What do UNRWA employees think about Hamas?

In the last UNRWA staff union elections, the pro-Hamas bloc won 25 of the 27 union seats in Gaza.

 

Pro-Hamas bloc wins control of UNRWA union in Gaza
Islamist coalition takes 25 out of 27 seats among 10,000 Palestinian workers

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-hamas-bloc-wins-control-of-unrwa-in-gaza/

[Neeranam]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It can be argued well that Israel in this current war has gone too far with that calculation in accepting too many civilian casualties relative to the military goal.

I can't fully judge that as I don't know what they know but I don't criticize people who make that accusation now -- as I get that it DOES look that way.

I applaud your honesty and integrity. 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

UPDATE: The @IDF reveals Hamas used Gaza's Indonesian Hospital for the October 7 Massacre. Soldiers found a car belonging to one of the victims, with a hostage's bloodstains. The Hamas Jabalya Batallion used the hospital as its strategic underground operations center.

 

 

[Danny Australia]

 

Graves in Gaza damaged following Israeli ground offensive (washingtonpost.com)

 

Even the dead are not left alone as Israeli invading ground forces have damaged or destroyed at least six cemeteries during their advance into the northern Gaza Strip, most of them in recent weeks, according to an analysis of new satellite imagery and video footage by The New York Times.

 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I applaud your honesty and integrity. 

 

 

 

I try.

Supporting Israel's right to exist and defend itself in no way conflates with blind support of all Israeli government and IDF actions and policies.

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

Graves in Gaza damaged following Israeli ground offensive (washingtonpost.com)

 

Even the dead are not left alone as Israeli invading ground forces have damaged or destroyed at least six cemeteries during their advance into the northern Gaza Strip, most of them in recent weeks, according to an analysis of new satellite imagery and video footage by The New York Times.

 

'Spiiting on their graves', just when you think it can't get any worse. 

[Trippy]

With all this talk of Palestinian civilians, how exactly do you tell a civilian from hamas? There are men, women and children in hamas and none of them wear uniforms. 

[Danny Australia]

12 minutes ago, Trippy said:

With all this talk of Palestinian civilians, how exactly do you tell a civilian from hamas? There are men, women and children in hamas and none of them wear uniforms. 

 

The onus of proof that they are Hamas fighters lies with Israel. However, one can tell that overweight, old men and ordinary looking women and children definitively not Hamas fighters.

[Wobblybob]

5 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The onus of proof that they are Hamas fighters lies with Israel. However, one can tell that overweight, old men and ordinary looking women and children definitively not Hamas fighters.

Every one a gem. 😂😂😂

[Trippy]

7 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The onus of proof that they are Hamas fighters lies with Israel. However, one can tell that overweight, old men and ordinary looking women and children definitively not Hamas fighters.

One can tell? No matter what they look like they can still be a suicide bomber. If you make assumptions on the battlefield you'll surely die. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

42 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The onus of proof that they are Hamas fighters lies with Israel. However, one can tell that overweight, old men and ordinary looking women and children definitively not Hamas fighters.

However, one can tell that overweight, old men and ordinary looking women and children definitively not Hamas fighters.

 

 

Really.....lol No overweight Hamas fighters, no fighters 18 or under. The onus of proof is very easy when they are firing weapons at you.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Rimmer]

A video in a foreign language has been removed

 

All video content must be from a credible media source, and in English. Foreign languages, even with subtitles, are not permitted.

 

[spidermike007]

For a nation born of the Holocaust that supposedly prides itself on tolerance, it is becoming increasingly more intolerant by the day. Now, no criticism of Israel will be tolerated. As an American Jew I find this behavior abhorrent, as I have experienced decades of criticism from Jewish friends over my criticism of Israeli government policy, in addition to criticism from most Democrats for being politically Incorrect, which I insist on being. Both positions are a joke and a travesty. 

 

Israel has denied visas to the United Nations staff due to the global organization’s criticism of the regime’s targeting of civilians and hospitals in Gaza. Media reports said Israel will not renew the visa of a United Nations staff member and will deny the visa request of another UN employee.

 

“We will stop working with those who cooperate with the Hamas organization’s propaganda,” said Eli Cohen, Israel’s minister of foreign affairs, on X on Monday. Cohen described the UN’s conduct as disgraceful. 

 

No sir, the conduct of your country is a disgrace. 

 

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/12/25/717032/-gaza-un-visa-staff-israel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

For a nation born of the Holocaust that supposedly prides itself on tolerance, it is becoming increasingly more intolerant by the day. Now, no criticism of Israel will be tolerated. As an American Jew I find this behavior abhorrent, as I have experienced decades of criticism from Jewish friends over my criticism of Israeli government policy, in addition to criticism from most Democrats for being politically Incorrect, which I insist on being. Both positions are a joke and a travesty. 

 

Israel has denied visas to the United Nations staff due to the global organization’s criticism of the regime’s targeting of civilians and hospitals in Gaza. Media reports said Israel will not renew the visa of a United Nations staff member and will deny the visa request of another UN employee.

 

“We will stop working with those who cooperate with the Hamas organization’s propaganda,” said Eli Cohen, Israel’s minister of foreign affairs, on X on Monday. Cohen described the UN’s conduct as disgraceful. 

 

No sir, the conduct of your country is a disgrace. 

 

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/12/25/717032/-gaza-un-visa-staff-israel

No criticism of Israel will be tolerated?
B.S.!!!!!

 

Also -- 

 

The Zionist movement started long before the holocaust and Zionist

 pioneers were already in Israel long before the holocast.

 

I reject defining Israel only in terms of the holocaust. The rationale for Zionism was about THOUSANDS of years of persecution in the diaspora proving that political self determination was necessary for the survival of the Jewish people. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The onus of proof that they are Hamas fighters lies with Israel. However, one can tell that overweight, old men and ordinary looking women and children definitively not Hamas fighters.

Your concept of what any war is like is very comical.

Israel did not ask for this war.

Hamas forced this on them.

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

For a nation born of the Holocaust that supposedly prides itself on tolerance, it is becoming increasingly more intolerant by the day. Now, no criticism of Israel will be tolerated. As an American Jew I find this behavior abhorrent, as I have experienced decades of criticism from Jewish friends over my criticism of Israeli government policy, in addition to criticism from most Democrats for being politically Incorrect, which I insist on being. Both positions are a joke and a travesty. 

 

Israel has denied visas to the United Nations staff due to the global organization’s criticism of the regime’s targeting of civilians and hospitals in Gaza. Media reports said Israel will not renew the visa of a United Nations staff member and will deny the visa request of another UN employee.

 

“We will stop working with those who cooperate with the Hamas organization’s propaganda,” said Eli Cohen, Israel’s minister of foreign affairs, on X on Monday. Cohen described the UN’s conduct as disgraceful. 

 

No sir, the conduct of your country is a disgrace. 

 

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/12/25/717032/-gaza-un-visa-staff-israel

 

 

 

 

 

   Such nonsense, they aren't curtailing the criticism of Israel , Israel can still be criticised and no one is attempting to stop them .

   Two foreigners who help Israel's enemy have been denied Visas to enter Israel .

As a sovereign Nation, Israel has the right to allow or not allow anyone into the Country and two people who are hostile to Israel have been refused entry 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The onus of proof that they are Hamas fighters lies with Israel. However, one can tell that overweight, old men and ordinary looking women and children definitively not Hamas fighters.

 

   No, the fat old men are likely to be the Hamas leadership 

 

 

[spidermike007]

10 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   Such nonsense, they aren't curtailing the criticism of Israel , Israel can still be criticised and no one is attempting to stop them .

   Two foreigners who help Israel's enemy have been denied Visas to enter Israel .

As a sovereign Nation, Israel has the right to allow or not allow anyone into the Country and two people who are hostile to Israel have been refused entry 

Well you define them as hostile to Israel, many of us define them as rational people who are pleading for a humanity, without heartless cruelty, continued genocide against civilians, utter destruction of their homeland, and a high level of hatred for, and intolerance against the Palestinian people. 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well you define them as hostile to Israel, many of us define them as rational people who are pleading for a humanity, without heartless cruelty, continued genocide against civilians, utter destruction of their homeland, and a high level of hatred for, and intolerance against the Palestinian people. 

 

   Lynn Hastings isn't Palestinian  though and its hot her homeland , her Israel visa was revoked because she refused to condemn the Hamas for the October 7 th terror attack , but condemned Israel for its retaliation 

 

 

“Whoever does not condemn Hamas over the massacre of 1,200 Israelis, kidnapping of old people and babies, horific torture and rape, and the use of Gazans as human shields, but does condemn Israel, a democratic country that defends its citizens, cannot serve the UN and will not enter Israel,” Cohen writes on X.

 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-booting-top-un-humanitarian-official-hastings/

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Lynn Hastings isn't Palestinian  though and its hot her homeland , her Israel visa was revoked because she refused to condemn the Hamas for the October 7 th terror attack , but condemned Israel for its retaliation 

 

 

“Whoever does not condemn Hamas over the massacre of 1,200 Israelis, kidnapping of old people and babies, horific torture and rape, and the use of Gazans as human shields, but does condemn Israel, a democratic country that defends its citizens, cannot serve the UN and will not enter Israel,” Cohen writes on X.

 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-booting-top-un-humanitarian-official-hastings/

Statement by the UN Humanitarian Coordinator for the Occupied Palestinian Territory, Lynn Hastings, on the Hostilities between Palestinian Armed Groups in the Gaza Strip and Israel

Palestinian armed groups infiltrated Israel on 7 October, killing and capturing hundreds of Israeli civilians and members of the Israeli forces while indiscriminately firing thousands of rockets into Israel.

10 Oct 2023

All military and armed groups must abide by the principles of distinction, proportionality, and precaution when conducting their operations.

Civilians, especially children, medical facilities, humanitarian personnel health workers, and journalists must be protected.

Captured civilians must be released immediately and unconditionally.

Anyone captured or detained, including combatants, must be treated humanely and with dignity.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/statement-by-the-humanitarian-coordinator-for-the-occupied-palestinian-territory-lynn-hastings-on-the-hostilities-between-palestinian-armed-groups-in-the-gaza-strip-and-israel/

 

Also reported in the Voice of America

Three days after the attack, Hastings put out a statement that said, "Palestinian armed groups infiltrated Israel on 7 October, killing and capturing hundreds of Israeli civilians and members of the Israeli forces while indiscriminately firing thousands of rockets into Israel."

The statement added: "Captured civilians must be released immediately and unconditionally" and "treated humanely and with dignity.

https://www.voanews.com/a/israel-forces-out-un-official-in-palestinian-territories-/7380956.html

Edited December 26, 2023 by vinny41
typo

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well you define them as hostile to Israel, many of us define them as rational people who are pleading for a humanity, without heartless cruelty, continued genocide against civilians, utter destruction of their homeland, and a high level of hatred for, and intolerance against the Palestinian people. 

 

You talk about rational, then the froth comes out. It's embarrassing.