Israel losing global support over Gaza bombing, Biden says

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It wasn't. And 75 years ago, Israel expelled 2 million people from its lands.

 

The total population in the area, back in 1948 was about 2 million.

Figures referring to Nakba usually cite figures such as 750,000.

 

A two-state solution does not entail the return of all these people, or their decedents.

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Criticizing Israel is not flaming. Stop being so obsessed with me. It's getting creepy honestly.

 

Read your own post again. Apologists and so on.

There you go. Not too complicated.

[pacovl46]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's been 70 years. Define eventually.

Well, for the last 70 years there hasn't been any meaningful period of peace and obviously the terrorist attacks haven't stopped either. 

[pacovl46]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I disagree with what you say as who is going to stop them? The US isn't, at least at present.

 

I'm happy to not reply to you any more if that's what you want, but I might forget, so I'll have to put you on ignore.

Works for me!

[ThaiFelix]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:30 PM, ozimoron said:

 

Their best argument is that the civilians were told to leave so it's their own fault if they didn't. All good.

Told to leave for designated safety zones which were later also bombed.  So obviously not their fault.  Which ever way you look at it killing over 15,000 (and still rising) innocent civilians is not proportional to the 1400 odd Israelis killed.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

Told to leave for designated safety zones which were later also bombed.  So obviously not their fault.  Which ever way you look at it killing over 15,000 (and still rising) innocent civilians is not proportional to the 1400 odd Israelis killed.

 

I don't think that there was a mass bombardment of 'safe zones'. Links and maps to attack shown on these topics do not support this.

 

Here's an idea, though - Hamas got all them tunnels, bunkers etc. - how about letting their own people in?

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I don't think that there was a mass bombardment of 'safe zones'. Links and maps to attack shown on these topics do not support this.

Ya sure about that?

 

NYT Analysis: Israel Hit Civilian Area With 2,000-Pound Bombs

An Israeli airstrike on civilian-packed Jabaliya this week involved bombs that weighed at least 2,000 pounds—the second-largest in its arsenal, according to a New York Times analysis. Though Israel has used these bombs before, their deployment in a densely populated area has raised human rights concerns. Eighty-three countries—including the U.S. but not Israel—have signed a declaration that they will not use such explosive weapons in crowded civilian areas. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nyt-analysis-israel-hit-jabaliya-with-2000-pound-bombs

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Ya sure about that?

 

NYT Analysis: Israel Hit Civilian Area With 2,000-Pound Bombs

An Israeli airstrike on civilian-packed Jabaliya this week involved bombs that weighed at least 2,000 pounds—the second-largest in its arsenal, according to a New York Times analysis. Though Israel has used these bombs before, their deployment in a densely populated area has raised human rights concerns. Eighty-three countries—including the U.S. but not Israel—have signed a declaration that they will not use such explosive weapons in crowded civilian areas. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nyt-analysis-israel-hit-jabaliya-with-2000-pound-bombs

 

It's the same article you posted earlier.

It makes a general claim without specifying which supposed 'safe zones' were hit and when.

Jabaliya was not designated a safe zone.

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It's the same article you posted earlier.

It makes a general claim without specifying which supposed 'safe zones' were hit and when.

Jabaliya was not designated a safe zone.

 

Israel is using these bombs in crowded civilian areas.

"Eighty-three countries—including the U.S. but not Israel—have signed a declaration that they will not use such explosive weapons in crowded civilian areas."

How concerned is Israel about civilian casualties?

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Israel is using these bombs in crowded civilian areas.

"Eighty-three countries—including the U.S. but not Israel—have signed a declaration that they will not use such explosive weapons in crowded civilian areas."

How concerned is Israel about civilian casualties?

 

I dunno.

 

Have all the countries that signed that deceleration been in a situation where this was a consideration? Do all of them even possess such bombs?

 

 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

It makes a general claim without specifying which supposed 'safe zones' were hit and when.

Jabaliya was not designated a safe zone.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-bomb-investigation.html

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I dunno.

 

Have all the countries that signed that deceleration been in a situation where this was a consideration? Do all of them even possess such bombs?

 

 

Well, the US has certainly been in such situations and does possess them.

[ozimoron]

JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli military campaign in Gaza, experts say, now sits among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history.

 

In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-bombs-destruction-death-toll-scope-419488c511f83c85baea22458472a796

[Morch]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, the US has certainly been in such situations and does possess them.

 

Yes, and?

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

JERUSALEM (AP) — The Israeli military campaign in Gaza, experts say, now sits among the deadliest and most destructive in recent history.

 

In just over two months, the offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Syria’s Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine’s Mariupol or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in World War II. It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-bombs-destruction-death-toll-scope-419488c511f83c85baea22458472a796

 

Top of the article cites 20,000 casualties, lumping civilians and combatants together.

Scrolling down a 7000 combatant figure appears.

 

I think some of the case comparisons are moronic.

Especially the IS bit.

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Top of the article cites 20,000 casualties, lumping civilians and combatants together.

Scrolling down a 7000 combatant figure appears.

 

I think some of the case comparisons are moronic.

Especially the IS bit.

 

over 14,000 dead civilians is moronnc? Your quibbling about a number that's not concealed or misleading to minimize the story's message?

 

If you're looking for something moronic, it's killing more civilians that the US killed in Afghanistan in 3 years. That's a war crime.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

over 14,000 dead civilians is moronnc? Your quibbling about a number that's not concealed or misleading to minimize the story's message?

 

What is it with you and intentionally misrepresenting what people say?

 

What you claimed above is not what I posted.

 

I said some of the comparisons appearing in the article are moronic.

Not expecting you to acknowledge that, apologize or anything.

 

I'm not 'quibbling'. I'm saying.

The article starts with the lump figure of 20,000.

This what makes some of the comparisons semi-feasible.

Cut it down by a third and it's not quite as 'sexy'.

 

And minimize how? I do not deny the deaths.

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What is it with you and intentionally misrepresenting what people say?

 

What you claimed above is not what I posted.

 

I said some of the comparisons appearing in the article are moronic.

Not expecting you to acknowledge that, apologize or anything.

 

I'm not 'quibbling'. I'm saying.

The article starts with the lump figure of 20,000.

This what makes some of the comparisons semi-feasible.

Cut it down by a third and it's not quite as 'sexy'.

 

And minimize how? I do not deny the deaths.

 

 

Which particular comparison is moronic. Your pronouncements are frequently vague and when you are asked a question about what you considered to be moronic you haul off and start flaming again.

 

Please confine your comments to what I say and stop casting aspersion on my character.  Do NOT mention me personally. Ever.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Which particular comparison is moronic. Your pronouncements are frequently vague and when you are asked a question about what you considered to be moronic you haul off and start flaming again.

 

Please confine your comments to what I say and stop casting aspersion on my character.  Do NOT mention me personally. Ever.

 

Do you always reply to posts without reading them? Seems like. Try the last line of the post in question.

I did not say anything about your questions being 'moronic' - that's you making up stuff again.

 

As for them 'NOT', and 'Ever' - who do you thing you are?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Do you always reply to posts without reading them? Seems like. Try the last line of the post in question.

I did not say anything about your questions being 'moronic' - that's you making up stuff again.

 

As for them 'NOT', and 'Ever' - who do you thing you are?

 

You claimed something in that post was moronic but did not say what it was but hinted that it was something to do with the number of civilians killed.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

You claimed something in that post was moronic but did not say what it was but hinted that it was something to do with the number of civilians killed.

 

Are you for real? This is what I posted:

 

Quote

I think some of the case comparisons are moronic.

Especially the IS bit.

 

Any more silly lies you want to try?

 

What I said about the casualty figures is:

 

Quote

Top of the article cites 20,000 casualties, lumping civilians and combatants together.

Scrolling down a 7000 combatant figure appears.

 

Not what you claimed.

 

As said, you often seem to respond to what you think posters posted, not what actually was.

Then you start a pointless argument about it (like now).

At the end of, you hardly ever acknowledge your mistake, let alone apologize.

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Are you for real? This is what I posted:

 

 

Any more silly lies you want to try?

 

What I said about the casualty figures is:

 

 

Not what you claimed.

 

As said, you often seem to respond to what you think posters posted, not what actually was.

Then you start a pointless argument about it (like now).

At the end of, you hardly ever acknowledge your mistake, let alone apologize.

 

 

The only time IS is even mentioned in the article is this paragraph. What's moronic there?

 

During the 2014-2017 campaign to defeat IS in Iraq, the coalition carried out nearly 15,000 strikes across the country, according to Airwars, a London-based independent group that tracks recent conflicts. By comparison, the Israeli military said last week it has conducted 22,000 strikes in Gaza.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

The only time IS is even mentioned in the article is this paragraph. What's moronic there?

 

During the 2014-2017 campaign to defeat IS in Iraq, the coalition carried out nearly 15,000 strikes across the country, according to Airwars, a London-based independent group that tracks recent conflicts. By comparison, the Israeli military said last week it has conducted 22,000 strikes in Gaza.

 

As expected, you can't bring yourself to acknowledge you were wrong. More so - actually lied. It's not like some old post that had to be dug up, it's right in-front of you, and you still misrepresented it - multiple times. Get help.

 

And here we go again with your nonsense (from the article you linked):

 

Quote

It has killed more civilians than the U.S.-led coalition did in its three-year campaign against the Islamic State group.

 

Quote

The U.S.-led coalition’s 2017 assault to expel the Islamic State group from the Iraqi city of Mosul was considered one of the most intense attacks on a city in generations. That nine-month battle killed around 10,000 civilians, a third of them from coalition bombardment, according an Associated Press investigation at the time.

 

During the 2014-2017 campaign to defeat IS in Iraq, the coalition carried out nearly 15,000 strikes across the country, according to Airwars, a London-based independent group that tracks recent conflicts. By comparison, the Israeli military said last week it has conducted 22,000 strikes in Gaza.

 

Do you actually read what you post? Or just the headlines?

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Yes, and?

83 States endorsed the agreement: Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Canada, Central African Republic, Chile, Colombia, Comoros, Costa Rica, Cote d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Guyana, Holy See, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Laos, Liberia, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Palau, Palestine, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Romania, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, San Marino, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Slovakia, Slovenia, Somalia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Togo, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States,.Uruguay.

https://www.hi.org/en/news/80-states-have-made-history-by-endorsing-the-international-agreement-against-bombing-on-towns-and-cities

 

Revealing to see who has and even more revealing to see who hasn't.

[Morch]

Just now, placeholder said:

83 States endorsed the agreement: Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Canada, Central African Republic, Chile, Colombia, Comoros, Costa Rica, Cote d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Guyana, Holy See, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Laos, Liberia, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Palau, Palestine, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Romania, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, San Marino, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Slovakia, Slovenia, Somalia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Togo, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States,.Uruguay.

https://www.hi.org/en/news/80-states-have-made-history-by-endorsing-the-international-agreement-against-bombing-on-towns-and-cities

 

Revealing to see who has and even more revealing to see who hasn't.

 

Doesn't answer my question, though.

Kinda doubt Saint kitts and Nevis.....

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

83 States endorsed the agreement: Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Canada, Central African Republic, Chile, Colombia, Comoros, Costa Rica, Cote d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Guyana, Holy See, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Laos, Liberia, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Palau, Palestine, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Romania, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, San Marino, Senegal, Serbia, Sierra Leone, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Slovakia, Slovenia, Somalia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Togo, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States,.Uruguay.

https://www.hi.org/en/news/80-states-have-made-history-by-endorsing-the-international-agreement-against-bombing-on-towns-and-cities

 

Revealing to see who has and even more revealing to see who hasn't.

Maybe they didn't have a terror group with 500 kilometers  of tunnels some 50 meters deep that need to be dealt with.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

3...2......1.... time for the resident fundamentalists to deny !

No just time to point out the rules, something you often forget about

[placeholder]

 

And they certainly didn't drop giant bombs on an area where civilians were told they would be safe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-bomb-investigation.html

[Nick Carter icp]

18 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

We are at a point of savage vengeance now with no military reason for the continued savagery. 

 

 

   Getting the hostages released ?

Capturing/killing the murdering  war criminal rapist Palestinians  ?

Two good reasons to continue 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

It's the same article you posted earlier.

It makes a general claim without specifying which supposed 'safe zones' were hit and when.

Jabaliya was not designated a safe zone.

 

During the first six weeks of the war in Gaza, Israel routinely used one of its biggest and most destructive bombs in areas it designated safe for civilians, according to an analysis of visual evidence by The New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-bomb-investigation.html