Everything that's wrong with EVs ... an endless list

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, retarius said:

I totally disagree. I happen to love, well like, Elon a bit. He's a huckster, like Trump, someone who shakes the world up a bit, so he's fun.

He is a hero to many folk, and a hero to me for his stand on free speech on X. Although I deplore him going to meet the vile Bibi and kowtowing to him, it made me want to vomit, and I thought Elon would stand his ground and condemn Israel but he didn't. He can't be all things to all people.

I don't drive Teslas, I like things to have a track record, like Japanese car companies, and Tesla has little behind it other than a bunch of words from Elon. Look he must be the greatest raiser of money in the world, and at least he tries to do good things with it. And he has been stunningly successful in most of his ventures. I think a lot of people buy Teslas because they believe in Elon. 

👍👍

[KhunLA]

9 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/

 

Tesla Is the Most-Recalled Car Brand—By Far—of All Cars, Trucks, and SUVs

Elon Musk’s cars take 4 of the top 5 spots.

You obviously didn't read the article.  

 

So an OTA / software update is considered a recall .... 😂

 

From the link:

... "Does that mean it considers OTAs (Over The Air updates) as recalls? It does if NHTSA calls it a recall."

[SAFETY FIRST]

11 hours ago, KhunLA said:

.....Everything that's wrong

... ICEV vs ICE debate thread

Nothing wrong here. 

 

After leaving school, Did my training with Petro Chemical Industries, Sydney. Worked for oil companies for many decades. 

 

Love combustion engines, I'm a big fan of the V8, owned many in Australia. 

 

Can't see me driving an EV, something about them, maybe it's that South African born guy, Elon Musk, creepy guy. 

 

 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Nothing wrong here. 

 

After leaving school, Did my training with ICI Sydney, Worked for oil companies for many decades. 

 

Love the combustion engines, I'm a fan of the V8, owned many in Australia. 

Owned more than a few nice ICEVs myself.  No regrets there, though can't say I'd ever need or buy another.  Highly doubtful after owning an EV.   Maybe if I didn't live in TH.  Not sure what the CS network is in the USA, and if there, that would be the deciding factor.  As if there, I'd probably be very nomadic.

 

Spend most of my nights sleeping in National Parks probably, hopefully some kind of RV, preferably all electric (EV & Solar powered w/ESS).  Hang out in the South during winter, and North during summer.

[GammaGlobulin]

What about the MG brand EV car?

Anyone have a review of the MG evs?

 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

What about the MG brand EV car?

Anyone have a review of the MG evs?

A few of us have MGs.  Myself the ZS, and quite like it.  I think every BEV & Hybrid has been mentioned by AN members owning.  No major complaints.  Just a few annoyances, most driver assist features, that can be turned off.

 

BYDs new offerings seem to be the flavor of the new year.

[GammaGlobulin]

45 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

A few of us have MGs.  Myself the ZS, and quite like it.  I think every BEV & Hybrid has been mentioned by AN members owning.  No major complaints.  Just a few annoyances, most driver assist features, that can be turned off.

 

BYDs new offerings seem to be the flavor of the new year.

 

I appreciate your input/reply.

Personally, I intend to NEVER drive a vehicle, ever again, just because I do not enjoy the stress.

And, I asked the question simply because an acquaintance of mine is seriously considering buying an MG..EV...

And, I had heard that MG is now owned by China.

So....There have, reportedly, been some problems with China-produced EVs...such as battery-range.

Or, maybe the MG EVs in Thailand have good battery/range performance...I do not know.

 

 

[VinnieK]

12 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Could you kindly expand on where, how, what ICEVs are technically superior? Acceleration? Noise levels? Comfort? Handling? Mind you, range is not an issue for EV owners. It’s really only non EV owners who think that range is a major issue.

Range is the only issue but a HUGE one .

 

I spent 99% of my time locally.

Once a year I travel 1000s of kms by road to distant places.

Some ppl do it way more often.

EVs cannot handle this.

Either I need 2 cars or an ICE one.

 

Btw...I don't buy the environment argument for EVs but that's for another thread 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

If there are more recalls for EV, that mean ICE have less negatives.
 

Les negatives on the recall aspect you mean . Right? 

[Hanaguma]

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Owned more than a few nice ICEVs myself.  No regrets there, though can't say I'd ever need or buy another.  Highly doubtful after owning an EV.   Maybe if I didn't live in TH.  Not sure what the CS network is in the USA, and if there, that would be the deciding factor.  As if there, I'd probably be very nomadic.

 

Spend most of my nights sleeping in National Parks probably, hopefully some kind of RV, preferably all electric (EV & Solar powered w/ESS).  Hang out in the South during winter, and North during summer.

Yeah, I've done the major parks in the southwest a couple of times- the Mighty Five in Utah, plus Arizona, Nevada, etc. An amazing place that deserves months, if not years, of exploration.  Perhaps tow a small trailer with an EV pickup like the Ford Lightning? Gonna be pricy though.

[JBChiangRai]

6 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

What about the MG brand EV car?

Anyone have a review of the MG evs?

 

 

We have 2 MG EV's, a one year old MG EP+ which was my daughter's at University in Chiang Mai and is now for sale, and an MG4 which was mine and is now my daughter's as I replaced it with a BYD EV.

 

The MG EV's are fine cars and have a huge market share in the UK where they didn't screw up their brand by marketing poorly built petrol cars.

 

MG's have a poor reputation in Thailand, I think well deserved for their ICE vehicles, it is taking them some considerable time to repair that image.

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Range has been shown to be a major issue at low temperatures. That's because not only do batteries function less effectively, the battery also has to keep the vehicle warm. A battery is a chemical reaction, and all chemical reactions become slower as the temperature decreases. No problem for an ICE, it is using the waste heat of the engine.

Conversely, an ICE operates more efficiently in cold weather. Cooler air is more dense, and hence has more oxygen. Ever noticed many international flights are at night, when it is cooler?

An ICE can operate quite happily at -50C. I doubt an EV would have any useful range at that temperature.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teslas-electric-vehicles-cold-weather/

 

 

 

@josephbloggs addressed your theory about international flights quite well I thought. As an ex-frequent flyer, most of my East-West international flights were at night. I choose this option so that I can sleep on the plane and arrive refreshed and ready to start work. My returning flights were in the daytime because this is when the plane turns around.

 

 I grant you your point about range issues at low temperatures. This of course is a non-issue in SEA. Even in colder climates, the problem that some Tesla owners faced in Chicago is more the exception rather than the rule and could have been fairly easily avoided or resolved. As one poster @JBChiangRai I believe said, this is more a reflection of American Tesla owners than EVs themselves. 
 

It bears repeating again that even during winter, the reduced range of an EV is more than sufficient for most drivers. The majority of people commute less than 100 kms per day and every decent EV manages that easily. Just plug it in when you get home and you have practically a full tank again the next morning. Not rocket science for most people (except possibly some American Tesla owners).

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, VinnieK said:

Range is the only issue but a HUGE one .

 

I spent 99% of my time locally.

Once a year I travel 1000s of kms by road to distant places.

Some ppl do it way more often.

EVs cannot handle this.

Either I need 2 cars or an ICE one.

 

Btw...I don't buy the environment argument for EVs but that's for another thread 

That really does come down to one's driving style and patience level ...

... while O&A

 

Reality is, they will spend a lot more time topping up their ICEV at the stations weekly/monthly than total time spent spent yearly topping up the EV at CSs while O&A.   Location dependent of course.

 

Half our kms (10k of 20k) last year in our BEV were O&A, and not an inconvenience at all, topping up.

 

A true pleasure never having to make a special trip to top up the BEF weekly at the station, vs owning the ICEV.   Since the petrel station wasn't on our regular driving routes, and actually a bit out of the way (5 or 7 kms away), considering TH's U-turns on roads.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Les negatives on the recall aspect you mean . Right? 

If people consider OTA software updates a recall, then EVs certainly are a POS.  Our MG ZS has one of those recalls, for the past 6 months or more.   So we haven't driven it, as I haven't done the update/recall yet.

 

How can I drive a vehicle that I can't use all the functions of Google or Apple play properly until updated.   It's nothing but a 1750 kg road hazard that sits at our carport. 😂

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

The poster you replied may not be a rocket scientist, but probably has a better conscience than you.

 

Tesla is was the most sold, and most expensive, EV in the world, so that mean that the majority of EV's sold are rubbish.

 

If the most sold, and most pricey, manufacturer can get it right, then we all know what to expect from cheap Chinese crap.

 

Of course, anyone who has ever dealt with Chinese companies know how they deal with support and recalls.

 

Hint: They are worse than Thai companies in that regard

I think you’ve lived in Thailand a bit too long to the extent that you have over absorbed Thai logic.

 

Do you know what the recalls were for and does it relate to the tech of an EV? Toyota recalled the Bz4x as there was a risk of the tyres falling off. Does that mean EVs are dangerous? No. It merely means that Toyota did a bad job with this car. My Ford Ranger had a recall due to a faulty door lock mechanism. Does that mean pickups are rubbish? No. It means that the part used by Ford was sub par. For all we know, the Tesla recalls could have been software issues, seat belts, brake discs, HVAC etc etc. Nothing to do with EVs but with cars in general. Which means that Tesla is a crap manufacturer with poor build quality, like many American made cars.

 

You made the point of most sold, most pricey therefore blah blah blah. McDonalds is the most sold burgers (pricey too if you consider the low quality of ingredients). Does that make all burgers rubbish? Maybe Thai logic thinks so. A lot of China haters are still living in the past century when they think all Chinese made products are crap. There was a time when Japanese made cars were compared to tin cans due to their low quality. Today, they are hailed as the most reliable, dependable vehicles on the roads. Looking at the build quality of recent Chinese offerings, they are right up there with the most premium of offerings but at a much more affordable price.

 

You also mentioned conscience. I assume you mean cobalt mining? Is so, my BYD battery does not contain cobalt but cobalt is required in the production of the fossil fuel you use in your vehicle. Nuff said.

 

 

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, VinnieK said:

Range is the only issue but a HUGE one .

 

I spent 99% of my time locally.

Once a year I travel 1000s of kms by road to distant places.

Some ppl do it way more often.

EVs cannot handle this.

Either I need 2 cars or an ICE one.

 

Btw...I don't buy the environment argument for EVs but that's for another thread 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Range is an issue mostly for non EV owners. Not sure if you live in Thailand but travelling long distances in Thailand in an EV is not difficult. Sure, it’s less convenient than just filling up and going as in an ICEV but if only doing such trips once or twice a year, the advantages of an EV on a daily basis far outweighs the occasional inconvenience of long distance trips. 
 

For those who do it more often, then an EV is probably not the right choice for them, as mentioned countless times by EV owners. But EVs can definitely handle long trips, albeit taking longer than in an ICEV.

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Aha ha ha ha. Yeah, this is the reason, because at 40,000 feet at night there is a huge difference than 40,000 feet in the daytime.

 

Nothing to do with limited landing slots and many airports (like Heathrow) not allowing 24 hour operations or having restrictions on night time landings, it's because of the temperature of the air. Brilliant.

You may be right, I don't know what the temperature difference at 40,000 feet is between night and day. Google or Bard would probably tell me, if I could be bothered.

I do know the efficiency of an engine is calculated from Carnot's theorem. In layman's terms, the efficiency of any engine increases with increasing temperature differential between the operating temperature of the engine, and the atmosphere it exhausts to. It's why gas turbines are considerably more efficient than a steam engine.

 

 

I suggest you take your sarcasm, and stick it where the sun does not shine.

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You may be right, I don't know what the temperature difference at 40,000 feet is between night and day. Google or Bard would probably tell me, if I could be bothered.

I do know the efficiency of an engine is calculated from Carnot's theorem. In layman's terms, the efficiency of any engine increases with increasing temperature differential between the operating temperature of the engine, and the atmosphere it exhausts to. It's why gas turbines are considerably more efficient than a steam engine.

 

 

I suggest you take your sarcasm, and stick it where the sun does not shine.

You seriously didn't know why planes fly at higher altitudes ?

 

 

 

Actually, if your car is tuned properly for colder air, it may run more efficient.

 

[mikebike]

19 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

One thing that I can think of is the loss of fuel tax for the government. The government might have to increase the fuel tax to make up for this.

Hmmm? Is electricity not taxed in your country? Isn't it the same thing? 

[Lacessit]

30 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

If people consider OTA software updates a recall, then EVs certainly are a POS.  Our MG ZS has one of those recalls, for the past 6 months or more.   So we haven't driven it, as I haven't done the update/recall yet.

 

How can I drive a vehicle that I can't use all the functions of Google or Apple play properly until updated.   It's nothing but a 1750 kg road hazard that sits at our carport. 😂

What functions are you referring to?

A road map? Adaptive cruise control?  Reversing camera? Radar warning? Automated lane change? Power Steering? Electronic Stability Control? ABS?

It makes me wonder how people ever drove cars when all these modern technologies did not exist.

[mikebike]

18 hours ago, retarius said:

I don't ever feel the need to have to defend my purchase to anyone.

Well of course not. Why would you? You made the same purchase as every other vehicle owner for the last 100+ years. It's NEW things that folks tend to fear. 

[mikebike]

18 hours ago, retarius said:

if EVs are the wave of the future, you are right in your decision. If it turns out they are an expensive gimmick, you will have been wrong.

Curious as to whether there was the same "right or wrong" function related to purchasing VHS or Beta back in the day? The worse tech won out. Personally I do not see a right or wrong judgement in any of these decisions. 

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You seriously didn't know why planes fly at higher altitudes ?

 

 

 

Actually, if your car is tuned properly for colder air, it may run more efficient.

 

I probably forgot the thin air aspect.

Wake me up when there is a battery capable of supporting aviation with passenger aircraft.

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Hmmm? Is electricity not taxed in your country? Isn't it the same thing? 

I’m here in Thailand. I don’t know how much tax revenue is being earned by the Thai government from electricity vs fuel but I would imagine that earnings from electricity is only a fraction of that from fuel. Charging my EV to get a driving range of 400 kms from the grid is less than half of what fuel would cost in a comparable ICEV. From my solar installation, costs even less than that.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

What functions are you referring to?

A road map? Adaptive cruise control?  Reversing camera? Radar warning? Automated lane change? Power Steering? Electronic Stability Control? ABS?

It makes me wonder how people ever drove cars when all these modern technologies did not exist.

For our ZS, as I stated, it's an Google play update, so we can use Google apps on the multi media screen, I think, and has nothing to do with the performance of the car.  I guess we could listen to music (which we do now via bluetooth, I think) or even watch a vid.  Maybe have Gmap on the bigger screen instead of just my phone, a bit redundant, and then the other, vehicle info wouldn't be available at a glance.  

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

For our ZS, as I stated, it's an Google play update, so we can use Google apps on the multi media screen, I think, and has nothing to do with the performance of the car.  I guess we could listen to music (which we do now via bluetooth, I think) or even watch a vid.  Maybe have Gmap on the bigger screen instead of just my phone, a bit redundant, and then the other, vehicle info wouldn't be available at a glance.  

You won't drive a car because it does not have Google apps available? Now I have seen everything.

[mikebike]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

An ICE can operate quite happily at -50C. I doubt an EV would have any useful range at that temperature.

Let's pull that back a bit. Yes ICE vehicles can be better choice if your climate is Canada cold many months a year. But ICE vehicles are not "happy" at -50C, unless they are specifically designed for it. 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

You won't drive a car because it does not have Google apps available? Now I have seen everything.

That was sarcasm ... as to me, a 'recall' is something the may make the car unsafe to drive, not the ability to use an app that has nothing do do with driving.  But just the options.

 

Reply in reference to the silly notion that one agency stated Tesla is the most recalled vehicle, but includes OTA updates as a recall.   Totally ridiculous, as my thoughts of not diving because I can't listen to EC on sound system if not using Gplay.

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Let's pull that back a bit. Yes ICE vehicles can be better choice if your climate is Canada cold many months a year. But ICE vehicles are not "happy" at -50C, unless they are specifically designed for it. 

Good point. Will the 12 volt lead acid battery be even able to start the car at that temperature?

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Let's pull that back a bit. Yes ICE vehicles can be better choice if your climate is Canada cold many months a year. But ICE vehicles are not "happy" at -50C, unless they are specifically designed for it. 

along with being plugged into a heating element overnight and preferably in a garage if wanting to start the next day, or after a few hours at the pub/restaurant.   Not an endorsement for drunk driving.