How Many Foreigners Living in Thailand

[BE88]

12 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

It's all a matter of perspective:

 

Thailand is an export led economy, over 60% of GDP is derived from the export of goods and services and totals over USD 320 bill per year. The 300,000 or so Westerners living in Thailand account for less than USD 10 bill per year.

 

You forget that small streams make a river in every state  budget.

[crazykopite]

19 years and haven’t been back to Europe for 18 of those years would much rather travel to other Asian countries . Hopefully will get to Australia to visit some relatives in the next few years 

[steven100]

i think some of those live near my soi if it include Russians

 

 

 

[Dan O]

17 hours ago, sidjameson said:

Lots lots more that live here part of the year and so get counted as tourists not expats. 

Thats because they aren't expats if they only come for part of year, they are tourist

[Dan O]

16 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I know a top attorney in Bangkok who said that the number of expats leaving right around 2019 and into the first year of covid was enormous, well into the tens of thousands. No way to know how many new ones have come, I guess. 

Wonder how many of those that fled would prior to covid and complain non stop about their country of origin, then suddenly need to flee home. 

[mfd101]

41 minutes ago, BE88 said:

You forget that small streams make a river in every state  budget.

The point of the discussion however is the small Falang stream, not the wide river of State spending.

[BE88]

1 minute ago, mfd101 said:

The point of the discussion however is the small Falang stream, not the wide river of State spending.

 

Have you ever done financial accounting?

Even small numbers is matter

[Mike Lister]

If you look solely at the financial benefits derived from westerners in Thailand and compare that to the bigger income picture derived from exports, USD 10 bill vs USD350 bill., it becomes easier to understand why appeasing foreigners in Thailand isn't high on the governments list of priorities. You want what, you want no dual pricing, access to state health care, no 90 day reports and you want to be able to buy booze when you want it......really, you want those things do you?  555!

[Old Croc]

18 hours ago, sidjameson said:

Lots lots more that live here part of the year and so get counted as tourists not expats. 

By definition, those living here don't have a tourist or other temporary visa.

The figure given has to be taken from PR and non-imm visa arrivals and extensions.

[Old Croc]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

19 hours ago, Goat said:

So 312k, and what about the other 4.6 million?

Did you read the report?

Before reading the report can I guess migrant workers from neighboring countries would be the largest group? 

[Mike Lister]

10 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Before reading the report can I guess migrant workers from neighboring countries would be the largest group? 

Yes, sure, Myanmar is over 2 mill.

 

Pages 12, 18 and 19 tell the story.

 

Other interesting trivia includes:

 

Foreign work permit holders by country, Japan, China, PI and India are the top 4.

 

 

[ohpont]

It will be interesting to have a more recent study, this one was published in 2019...and the data is from...?

Obsolete in 2024.

Anyone get some?, preferably an academic study.

Thank you.

 

oh

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, ohpont said:

It will be interesting to have a more recent study, this one was published in 2019...and the data is from...?

Obsolete in 2014.

Anyone get some?, preferably an academic study.

Thank you.

 

oh

2014......!

 

The UN and world bank are the two major authors, typically, I've not seen anything meaningful from Thai universities on this issue.

[Old Croc]

In a way it's a pity that such a comprehensive Migration Report was based on the year 2019.

While graphs of the dramatic drop-off of arrivals midyear make for interesting viewing it does despoil the true statistics.

The next one may restore some equilibrium.

 

I just noticed something similar was posted above. Apologies.

[CygnusX1]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

Thats because they aren't expats if they only come for part of year, they are tourist

How do you define “part of year”? For each year, I’m planning on spending 6 months in Thailand (just under 180 days!), 3 months in Australia and 3 months in Europe (just under 90 days). Does that mean I’m a perpetual tourist everywhere for the whole year? 

[Dan O]

37 minutes ago, CygnusX1 said:

How do you define “part of year”? For each year, I’m planning on spending 6 months in Thailand (just under 180 days!), 3 months in Australia and 3 months in Europe (just under 90 days). Does that mean I’m a perpetual tourist everywhere for the whole year? 

Well it would appear that way and would be considered as such in each country other than whatever your country of origin is if you maintain a home there and passport. 

[FritsSikkink]

21 hours ago, Goat said:

So 312k, and what about the other 4.6 million?

From the link

"Low-Skilled Workers  850,302 Work permits issued to migrants registered in Thailand 2,214,298 Seasonal work permits 21,561 Irregular status  811,437 Stay with Thais 37,822 Stay with a resident family 23,640  Stay with Thai spouse 16,276 — Retirement 72,969 — Special Law – Investment — 45,882 Special Law – Industrial Estates — 2,331 Special Law – Petroleum — 1,190 Tertiary Students 31,571 — Other Populations without Citizenship — 66,483 Stateless persons — 486,440 Refugees and Asylum Seekers  48,654 — Unregistered people in a refugee-like situation in temporary shelters 48,785 — Urban refugees and asylum-seekers 5,986 "

[Drumbuie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thais_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

So of course the first thing I wondered was how many Thais in UK? Seems to be a bit of znan asymmetric relationship, for some reason...😊

[Donga]

What surprises me from the Outward Migration table, are the very low numbers inherent in Thais living in the US and Australia, particularly LA and Sydney.

Sydney has over a thousand Thai restaurants, and around the same number of therapeutic massage shops. Sydney has between 40,000 to 80,000 Thais depending on the source. The CBD of Sydney now has more Thais living there than any other ethnic group. I can't see how this is reflected in their Migration table. Outbound Thai tourists perhaps, who convert to work visas once they settle into Australia... https://asia.nikkei.com/Life-Arts/Life/Inside-Sydney-s-Little-Bangkok
 

[CygnusX1]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

Well it would appear that way and would be considered as such in each country other than whatever your country of origin is if you maintain a home there and passport. 

I’d guess that most farang living here for most of the year would still be using the passport of their country of origin, not many would have a Thai passport, for which you’d need Thai citizenship? So this would severely undercount the number of farang effectively living here, though maybe not technically expats.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

I’d guess that most farang living here for most of the year would still be using the passport of their country of origin, not many would have a Thai passport, for which you’d need Thai citizenship? So this would severely undercount the number of farang effectively living here, though maybe not technically expats.

You don't need to change your passport or citizenship to be an expat but you do need to reside in the country as your permanent home. A global traveler that continually moves locations or countries isn't really an expat but more a nomad. 

[khunPer]

There is to my research no official statistics for resident foreigners counting the number, it has been based on estimates that vary from 500,000 and up to a million. Migrant workers from neighboring countries are not included. According to the Thailand Migration Report 2019, based on visas issued in 2017, the number is only approximately 200,000, divided as 77,000 for family reasons (marriage, children), 73,000 pensioners, and 50,000 due to investments. However, it is unclear what exactly these figures cover, whether they are visas issued by Thai embassies and consulates abroad, or extensions of stay issued by domestic immigration offices. According to the Ministry of Labour, there are also almost 113,000 well-educated foreign workers, so the total number is 313,000 if investor visas are included.

 

A study by Mahidol University based on 2010 figures found that 2,581,141 foreigners lived in Thailand, of which 72 percent, 1,858,000, were from Southeast Asia (mostly guest workers), with 1.3 million Burmese as the largest single group. Among the remaining approximately 720,000 so-called expats, the largest single groups were 141,000 Chinese, 85,000 British, 80,000 Japanese, 46,000 Indians, 40,000 Americans, 24,000 Germans and 23,000 French.

 

Financial news outlet Bloomberg reported that 80,000 pensioner visas were issued in 2018, an increase of 30 percent since 2014. The largest single groups were British with 16 percent, Americans 12 percent, Germans 9 percent, Chinese 7 percent and Swiss 6 percent.

[BE88]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

If you look solely at the financial benefits derived from westerners in Thailand and compare that to the bigger income picture derived from exports, USD 10 bill vs USD350 bill., it becomes easier to understand why appeasing foreigners in Thailand isn't high on the governments list of priorities. You want what, you want no dual pricing, access to state health care, no 90 day reports and you want to be able to buy booze when you want it......really, you want those things do you?  555!

If you talk to me then I will answer you.

 

1) Double prices, it's not important for me, paying 100 THB more doesn't make me poorer.

2) I have private insurance so I don't burden the healthcare system as you say, but many pay in cash when they need it, paying the double price applied in public hospitals.

3) The 90 days as we all know is ridiculous and made by the government to keep the cops busy behind the desks. But since I am a guest in this country I adapt without problems.

4) Alcohol aside from the fact that I only rarely drink personally but I see that it's just another one of the stupid senseless Thai rules, just to make you feel like the government controls you.

So all your grievances against foreigners living in this country fall on deaf ears as your abyss of grievances against foreigners living in this country.

Who are you really?

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, BE88 said:

If you talk to me then I will answer you.

 

1) Double prices, it's not important for me, paying 100 THB more doesn't make me poorer.

2) I have private insurance so I don't burden the healthcare system as you say, but many pay in cash when they need it, paying the double price applied in public hospitals.

3) The 90 days as we all know is ridiculous and made by the government to keep the cops busy behind the desks. But since I am a guest in this country I adapt without problems.

4) Alcohol aside from the fact that I only rarely drink personally but I see that it's just another one of the stupid senseless Thai rules, just to make you feel like the government controls you.

So all your grievances against foreigners living in this country fall on deaf ears as your abyss of grievances against foreigners living in this country.

Who are you really?

I wasn't really talking to anyone, just making the point that so many farang make significant demands of Thai government when their relative benefit to them is quite small. But I agree with you, I don't drink, don't mind double pricing etc.

[Paris333]

As of April 2023, there are an estimated 2.5 million regular migrants residing in Thailand from Myanmar, Cambodia, and Lao PDR, of which 1.9 million or 75% percent are from Myanmar. However, recent estimates following the military takeover in Myanmar in February 2021 suggest of the 5 million migrants (both documented and undocumented) the majority are from Myanmar who now reside in Thailand: a significant figure considering the total Thai labour force is around 40 million and Myanmar’s labour force stands at 25 million.

The first M.O.U (Memorandum Of Understanding) between Thailand and Myanmar related to migrant labour was signed in 2003, with more recent ones signed in 2016, 2018, and 2020.

At present, migrants under this arrangement account for 1.9 million migrants in Thailand, of which 1.5 million are from Myanmar. This presents the easiest and cheapest way for migrants to obtain documented status as they can find a job and begin work before applying for a pink card and becoming documented.

Source:(page11 and15)

https://www.undp.org/sites/g/files/zskgke326/files/2023-12/undp-mmr_seeking-opportunities-elsewhere_nov_2023_final.pdf

[BE88]

17 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

I wasn't really talking to anyone, just making the point that so many farang make significant demands of Thai government when their relative benefit to them is quite small. But I agree with you, I don't drink, don't mind double pricing etc.

 

Mike I really don't understand your concept that we farang are well treated in Thailand,and we have no right to ask for anything, nothing is free for us in Thailand.

This concept is very clear, but now the Thai government asks us to pay taxes, making our lives more complicated without giving us anything in counterpart as in other countries where you can easily obtain residency, and obtain all the social benefits, which are much higher than those of Thailand, which are excluded from us and this makes Thailand much less attractive for expatriates.

It's up to everyone to draw their own conclusions when we finally know what awaits us.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, BE88 said:

 

Mike I really don't understand your concept that we farang are well treated in Thailand,and we have no right to ask for anything, nothing is free for us in Thailand.

This concept is very clear, but now the Thai government asks us to pay taxes, making our lives more complicated without giving us anything in counterpart as in other countries where you can easily obtain residency, and obtain all the social benefits, which are much higher than those of Thailand, which are excluded from us and this makes Thailand much less attractive for expatriates.

It's up to everyone to draw their own conclusions when we finally know what awaits us.

The weather is better than where I come from and the beaches are better also. The cost of living is also cheaper plus it was my choice to come here, I could go home any time but I chose not. Given those things, what gives me the right to ask for free stuff. 

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, BE88 said:

 

Mike I really don't understand your concept that we farang are well treated in Thailand,and we have no right to ask for anything, nothing is free for us in Thailand.

 

This concept is very clear, but now the Thai government asks us to pay taxes, making our lives more complicated without giving us anything in counterpart as in other countries where you can easily obtain residency, and obtain all the social benefits, which are much higher than those of Thailand, which are excluded from us and this makes Thailand much less attractive for expatriates.

It's up to everyone to draw their own conclusions when we finally know what awaits us.

 

Nothing free for us Yanks back in the USA, except National Park entry after 60 yrs old.   Our Medicare (universal) care isn't cheap, and like most countries with, good luck finally getting to a specialist.

 

For Yanks (again), you pay income taxes no matter where you live or where you earn money.  If not mistaken, don't most countries, worth living in, tax expats' income?

3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The weather is better than where I come from and the beaches are better also. The cost of living is also cheaper plus it was my choice to come here, I could go home any time but I chose not. Given those things, what gives me the right to ask for free stuff. 

 

For me, weather is almost a negative, as not a hot weather person, (so move south ) though did live in Memphis Tennessee (USA) area, and a whole month of 38-39-40C wouldn't be rare.  USA being so large, it's easy to find good weather, barring hurricane & tornado seasons.  Those 2 eliminated full time living in more than couple areas.

 

Beaches, mainland, better than anything on the gulf here, and not as polluted as Phuket, though you really can't afford to live walking/cycling distance from them, like I do here.  From the Carolinas, south to the Florida Keys, just silly expensive, along with hurricane season.   Never warmed up to the Gulf of Mexico, though can't say I gave it a fair shake.

 

Cost of Living ... basics I think is about the same.  Our eat in lifestyle now.  Restaurants are cheaper here, per se', but you do get what you pay for, and little to no ambiance, unless going way high end.

 

It's the RE tax & healthcare that is the real kicker for Yanks.   None & accessible here/TH (respectfully) and inexpensive, if healthy or not needing ongoing high tech care.  Although with deductibles of the overpriced healthcare & med in USA, not sure any of it is cheaper with insurance at USA.

 

Also here by choice and could go back with no real concerns, but have no desire to.  If ever forced to, very doubtful 'what if', think I'd look elsewhere before returning.

 

Only thing I miss is the change of season, and love a bit of snow, spring & fall.  Think I've had enough of summer.

 

Thankfully Yanks on Gov't Social Security (retirement) get a pass on the TH income tax thingy, Unless actually having real income. 

 

Had opportunity the past 6 ish weeks to visit national parks here (3 locally) for free, and didn't even bother, as most aren't worth the car & wife fee to enter.  I find the surrounding area, as good or better than actually in the parks, with few exceptions 

[it is what it is]

The mystery of exactly how many expats live in Thailand

 

sine when has this been a mystery? and why would it be a mystery?

[geisha]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:16 AM, Will B Good said:

The number of Western expats does surprise me.....I would have guessed a much higher figure.

Because lots are usually tourists !