EC to Ask Court to Dissolve MFP

[charleskerins]

7 hours ago, sidneybear said:

Is that so? Read its manifesto and compare with that of the Democrat party.

 

"Conspiracy theory" is a work out term coined by the CIA in the 50's - it's used to denounce an opponent, rather than conduct a sensible debate, so go away if you have nothing sensible to say.

Another funny thing  people that believe in Democracy generally believe in many of the same things. 

[Aussie999]

35 minutes ago, johng said:

Yes It's a shame but Thailand is a small player on the world wide stage and shining a light on other countries failings only invites the same criticism upon themself.(those criticising are just as bad)

Threatening to freeze someone's overseas accounts, often gets results.

[johng]

13 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

But it does in many places 

I don't understand this bit   are you in touch with other realms  not of this planet ?

[MangoKorat]

6 hours ago, sambum said:

 

Absolutely correct! 

 

And what kind of a "democratic Government" appoints by its own authority and choosing, 150 Senators that will vote as they are told to on future proposals?

Yes and sadly, the Thai people voted for that in 2016 when a referendum on a new constitution was held. Under the guise of the restrictions in place due to the political turmoil at the time, opponents of the draft constitution were banned from campaigning against it and, if I remember rightly they were not given any TV time.

 

Some could say 'more fool them' but the reality is that the Thai people didn't really know what they were voting for.  They might well have noticed that the new 'Senate' would ultimately control the makeup of all future governments but that was presented to them as a 'checks and balances' system which would remove the need for any future coups.  What they failed to notice, and I think was not made clear to them, was that the military would decide on the makeup of the senate. Just about all the publicity regarding the draft constitution was handled by Prayuth & Co and was very much in their favour.

 

According to Wikipedia, refering to the then military government:  'They banned criticism of the draft constitution and prohibited monitoring of the referendum. Activists against the document were arrested, detained, and prosecuted in military courts, whilst voters who expressed their intention to vote against the draft were also arrested and prosecuted by the military regime.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Thai_general_election

 

The word 'shafted' comes to mind.

 

The net result of the 2016 referendum was not illuminated until the 2023 'election', and I use the term 'election' very lightly when the winning party was not allowed to form a government. Through the Senate, the military remain in control of the country (for their masters though).  They may allow a little latitude to whichever group they 'allow' to be in power in but they are firmly in charge.

 

Interestingly the Election Commission stated that their 80% turnout requirement for the 2016 referendum was a target and not a requirement. The actual turnout was 59% and the vote in favour was around 61%.  By my calculations that means that only around 36% of the electorate voted in favour of the new constitution.

Edited March 13 by MangoKorat

[Cabradelmar]

And the total and complete mockery of Thai political choice has entered its final act 🤮 #notsurprised 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

IMO the MFP and all the University protestors were stupid - and I said that at the time.  The only way to make changes is to be in power -  MFP should have focussed on getting elected. Once you are in power then you can make changes, but to get into power means being smart about it and/or lying about what you will do when in power (that is called politics). 

[ericthai]

10 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

Think you need to read Thai history on Thaskin  and Yes he did tell the police to go out and kill people he had kill lists made up. and it was not all drug dealers

 

I dont need to read up on it as I was here at the time.  Yes, many innocent people were killed (almost half), but again it's nothing compared to pol pot. 

 

[ericthai]

10 hours ago, dinsdale said:

You should read this entire article and many, many similar ones to educate yourself on Thaksin's "war on drugs" and the ensuing extrajudicial killings.

http://www.humanrights.asia/resources/journals-magazines/article2/special-report-extrajudicial-killings-of-alleged-drug-dealers-in-thailand/extrajudicial-killings-of-alleged-drug-dealers-in-thailand/

Extrajudicial killings of alleged drug dealers in Thailand
Prime Minister of Thailand Thaksin Shinawatra announced on 28 January 2003 that a ‘war on drugs’ would begin on February 1, and continue until April 30, at which time the country would be drug-free. As a result, over 2000 persons lost their lives during this three-month period, murdered on the streets, in houses, restaurants and shops around the country. Others who escaped death have been forced into hiding or had their reputations and livelihoods ruined. Below is a selection of cases compiled from complaints received and investigated by non-governmental organizations, the media and other sources.

I understand completely what happened I was hearing about daily. 

Are you agreeing with mileandow that Thaksin was as bad as pol pot??? 

 

Read what I posted. I didn't say Thaskin was good or that I even liked him.

My statement was about his comparison of pol pot and Thaiskin which it's not even close to being the same. 

 

Maybe you guys need to read some history on pol pot  1.5 -2 million people killed.

[dinsdale]

25 minutes ago, ericthai said:

I understand completely what happened I was hearing about daily. 

Are you agreeing with mileandow that Thaksin was as bad as pol pot??? 

 

Read what I posted. I didn't say Thaskin was good or that I even liked him.

My statement was about his comparison of pol pot and Thaiskin which it's not even close to being the same. 

 

Maybe you guys need to read some history on pol pot  1.5 -2 million people killed.

My apologies. Taken out of context. No comparison can be made between the two. Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Hitler are in their own category when it comes to mass murder/genocide. Sadly Thailand is in the new world of extrajudicial killings and disappearances. For this Thaksin and Prayut are guilty.

Edited March 13 by dinsdale

[dinsdale]

59 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO the MFP and all the University protestors were stupid - and I said that at the time.  The only way to make changes is to be in power -  MFP should have focussed on getting elected. Once you are in power then you can make changes, but to get into power means being smart about it and/or lying about what you will do when in power (that is called politics). 

Sadly you are wrong. No one other than the military/elite can have power. PT are not in power and I'll argue against anyone who says they are. The military/elite has the power. MFP could not lie to the electorate otherwise they become the same. They won the election because of this. Change from within is not possible. Politics is a very fickle thing at the best of times but when you have a system set up by a junta to sustain the status quo your chances of success are .....well we can all see. Nil.

[johng]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

but to get into power means being smart about it and/or lying about what you will do when in power (that is called politics)

Yes and therin lies the problem

lie/cheat/steal to get into power then how can anyone believe those in power .

[dinsdale]

5 minutes ago, johng said:

Yes and therin lies the problem

lie/cheat/steal to get into power then how can anyone believe those in power .

...and the liars, cheaters and theives do not want anyone threatening their power and fortunes. Anyone who does will be dealt with. Do not be fooled people the system here is cuttroat and the military/elite will see it remains so barring outright revolution. Myanmars military dictatorship is not long for this world. Thais should be watching this. Difference is the people against the coup leaders in Myanmar are well armed and have been doing this for decades. They have armies. Thailand will have to be a people's revolution. IMHO it will happen at some stage or there will be a change at the top that will change things for the better and this country will finally be out of the grips of the corrupt, power and money hungry military/elite.

Edited March 13 by dinsdale

[MikeandDow]

38 minutes ago, ericthai said:

I understand completely what happened I was hearing about daily. 

Are you agreeing with mileandow that Thaksin was as bad as pol pot??? 

 

Read what I posted. I didn't say Thaskin was good or that I even liked him.

My statement was about his comparison of pol pot and Thaiskin which it's not even close to being the same. 

 

Maybe you guys need to read some history on pol pot  1.5 -2 million people killed.

Just pointing out a incorrect statement u made i quote ( I'm no fan of Thaksin as he started the stricter visa/overstay rules, but Thaksin didn't tell the police to go out and kill people)  the answer is YES he did  and as for the comparison Thaskin to pol pot  I agree Pol pot killed millions, but Even killing people, you are a mass murder and that is what Thaskin is plane and simple

"Lawyers have suggested that Thaksin's drug war might amount to a crime against humanity under Article Seven of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court [ICC], set up in 1992."

 

[MrJ2U]

That's sad.

 

It's all the same bad actors from the "Junta dabacle government" just in new roles.

 

The Thai people have given up any hope of democracy within Thailand in there lifetimes. 

[ericthai]

5 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

Just pointing out a incorrect statement u made i quote ( I'm no fan of Thaksin as he started the stricter visa/overstay rules, but Thaksin didn't tell the police to go out and kill people)  the answer is YES he did  and as for the comparison Thaskin to pol pot  I agree Pol pot killed millions, but Even killing people, you are a mass murder and that is what Thaskin is plane and simple

"Lawyers have suggested that Thaksin's drug war might amount to a crime against humanity under Article Seven of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court [ICC], set up in 1992."

 

Glad you understand about pol pot. 

 

still trying to be right? 

 

Please provide a link to where Thaskin tells the police to go out and kill people. 

I recalling reading about a watch list, which I'm sure in reality could be the same as a kill list, but again never read or heard that Thaksin told the police to kill people.  He did use words like enemies referring to drug dealers.  

 

and to make it clear,  I'm not defending Thaksin or his actions, this is about you claiming he told the police to kill people, which I dont believe ever happened. I dont recall ever reading any comments like that in the paper nor heard anything on the radio or TV at the time.  

 

 

 

  

[Sig]

18 hours ago, Dukeleto said:

18 hours ago, Sig said:

Nothing new to see here... move along....

Edit:
I guess I should be explicit. I am being facetious. This action is so despicable, polite words escape me at the moment to describe what I think of these wholly self-centered people, who care NOTHING for their fellow countrymen who are of lesser means. Nor do they care for the peace of the land for the foreseeable future. Sickening.

Welcome to politicians the world over.

Yeah, no sh**.  And does that mean I should just be jaded to it, not care, and not be disgusted? btw, the present OP is about these particular politicians.... just because they are the same as so many corrupt imbeciles the world over, does that mean they get a pass and we should just be nonplussed by their tyranny?
Or maybe you're being facetious too??
This forum has so many sh**-for-brains re*t*rds, sometimes it's difficult to know how to take some of the comments....

[geisha]

Whatever. the country has become a cesspool of corruption. It’s not the happy Thai smiling holiday as portrayed.  

[Mr Meeseeks]

5 hours ago, geisha said:

Whatever. the country has become a cesspool of corruption. It’s not the happy Thai smiling holiday as portrayed.  

 

Become?

[herfiehandbag]

Those pesky senators and their re-election/reappointment!

 

I'm sure that they didn't want to do this until the last weeks of the next General Election campaign!

 

This way allows too much time for a re-incarnation to emerge!

[herfiehandbag]

13 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Yes and sadly, the Thai people voted for that in 2016 when a referendum on a new constitution was held. Under the guise of the restrictions in place due to the political turmoil at the time, opponents of the draft constitution were banned from campaigning against it and, if I remember rightly they were not given any TV time.

 

Some could say 'more fool them' but the reality is that the Thai people didn't really know what they were voting for.  They might well have noticed that the new 'Senate' would ultimately control the makeup of all future governments but that was presented to them as a 'checks and balances' system which would remove the need for any future coups.  What they failed to notice, and I think was not made clear to them, was that the military would decide on the makeup of the senate. Just about all the publicity regarding the draft constitution was handled by Prayuth & Co and was very much in their favour.

 

According to Wikipedia, refering to the then military government:  'They banned criticism of the draft constitution and prohibited monitoring of the referendum. Activists against the document were arrested, detained, and prosecuted in military courts, whilst voters who expressed their intention to vote against the draft were also arrested and prosecuted by the military regime.'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Thai_general_election

 

The word 'shafted' comes to mind.

 

The net result of the 2016 referendum was not illuminated until the 2023 'election', and I use the term 'election' very lightly when the winning party was not allowed to form a government. Through the Senate, the military remain in control of the country (for their masters though).  They may allow a little latitude to whichever group they 'allow' to be in power in but they are firmly in charge.

 

Interestingly the Election Commission stated that their 80% turnout requirement for the 2016 referendum was a target and not a requirement. The actual turnout was 59% and the vote in favour was around 61%.  By my calculations that means that only around 36% of the electorate voted in favour of the new constitution.

Turnout was suppressed for the referendum in those areas which were likely to return an unfavorable verdict.

There were far fewer voting stations than normal.

 

The one voting station for my local town was at the government offices on an open road some kilometre outside town. Well publicised police " road vehicle checkpoints" were set up on both sides of it, several hundred metres out. Now, rural Northern Thailand, at least 50% of motorcycles were unregistered, many without number plates. Didn't half cut down the numbers turning up to vote!

[charleskerins]

15 hours ago, johng said:

I don't understand this bit   are you in touch with other realms  not of this planet ?

"I am all for democracy. But during the last four years in the West I learned that real democracy exists nowhere on this planet."    But it does in many places   https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking

[BE88]

Thailand is becoming very unstable and nothing good will come from this repression and this serious economic crisis, another intervention by the military is looming in the future but the military risks rushing even further towards a Myanmar situation

[MikeandDow]

8 hours ago, ericthai said:

Glad you understand about pol pot. 

 

still trying to be right? 

 

Please provide a link to where Thaskin tells the police to go out and kill people. 

I recalling reading about a watch list, which I'm sure in reality could be the same as a kill list, but again never read or heard that Thaksin told the police to kill people.  He did use words like enemies referring to drug dealers.  

 

and to make it clear,  I'm not defending Thaksin or his actions, this is about you claiming he told the police to kill people, which I dont believe ever happened. I dont recall ever reading any comments like that in the paper nor heard anything on the radio or TV at the time.  

 

 

 

  

Go read the many articles about the war on drugs  Thaskin made the policy  "Those who devised the policy are primarily responsible for the deaths,"

 The whole point is he should be accountable for the killings but he has not

Another more recent tragic event Thaksin's supporters will want to mention, namely the deaths surrounding the events of April-May, 2010. But there is a big difference between those events and Thaksin's earlier rampages.

Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep Thaugsuban, then prime minister and deputy prime minister respectively, have been charged with murder

They have acknowledged these charges, indicated their willingness to stand trial and accept the court's verdict, whatever that may be.
This is called "integrity", in the highest order, for accepting responsibility for one's actions.
Will the same ever be said about Thaksin? Until we deconstruct this culture of impunity, Thailand's political development will remain trapped in the shadows of

despair.

 

as far as i am concerned this is the end of discussion 


 

 

[johng]

1 hour ago, charleskerins said:

 I learned that real democracy exists nowhere on this planet."    But it does in many places   https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking

It must be me, I'm still none the wiser.

If real democracy exists nowhere on this planet...but it does in many places then surely those places are not of this planet ?

[charleskerins]

36 minutes ago, johng said:

It must be me, I'm still none the wiser.

If real democracy exists nowhere on this planet...but it does in many places then surely those places are not of this planet ?   I replied to the post ,the post is in quotation marks.   My post claims that it does exist on this planet.

[MikeandDow]

10 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

48 minutes ago, johng said:

It must be me, I'm still none the wiser.

If real democracy exists nowhere on this planet...but it does in many places then surely those places are not of this planet ?   I replied to the post ,the post is in quotation marks.   My post claims that it does exist on this planet.

There is not 100% real democracy  on this planet. but a % of Democracy does exist  

[geisha]

9 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

Become?

Yes, it’s becoming worse every year .

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 3/13/2024 at 7:42 PM, dinsdale said:

Sadly you are wrong. No one other than the military/elite can have power. PT are not in power and I'll argue against anyone who says they are. The military/elite has the power. MFP could not lie to the electorate otherwise they become the same. They won the election because of this. Change from within is not possible. Politics is a very fickle thing at the best of times but when you have a system set up by a junta to sustain the status quo your chances of success are .....well we can all see. Nil.

Wrong.  There is no right and wrong in Politics - there is only what it takes to get into power (win election) and what it takes to then use that power (Government).

 

MFP did not win the election - they won 30+% of the vote. They should have been far more pragmatic and prepared - but just like the idealistic schoolchildren now going to jail 'for a cause', they were taken down by smarter and more experienced political operators.  Hopefully, MFP have learned their lesson and if they survive this dissolving of the Party wisely (Pita was cleared), then they will learn and also be smart enought to be able to take control after the next election. Only then can the system be changed - only from within. Screaming and protesting about what is right and wrong is irrelevent in Politics. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 3/13/2024 at 7:44 PM, johng said:

Yes and therin lies the problem

lie/cheat/steal to get into power then how can anyone believe those in power .

Same everywhere. You cannot change the system unless you are inside the system. Attacking it from outside only makes in stronger - and the system has mechanisms in place to protect itself. Mechanisms that stop opponents getting into power, and mechanisms to stop those in power that want to change it. The only way to beat the system is to know the system and its defences - and getting inside is the best way to do that (the only other method is extremely destructive). 

[dinsdale]

12 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Wrong.  There is no right and wrong in Politics - there is only what it takes to get into power (win election) and what it takes to then use that power (Government).

 

MFP did not win the election - they won 30+% of the vote. They should have been far more pragmatic and prepared - but just like the idealistic schoolchildren now going to jail 'for a cause', they were taken down by smarter and more experienced political operators.  Hopefully, MFP have learned their lesson and if they survive this dissolving of the Party wisely (Pita was cleared), then they will learn and also be smart enought to be able to take control after the next election. Only then can the system be changed - only from within. Screaming and protesting about what is right and wrong is irrelevent in Politics. 

They were taken down by 250 unelected senators put in by the Junta. They won the election with just under 38% of the vote grabbing 151 seats and in Thailand that's a landslide. Pita was cleared of the bogus charge of shareholding in a (defunct) media company is correct but it was enough to prevent him from being PM. The only way to change the system is to get the military out because this is the only way that a party that wants to change the system can get in. If this is not clearly evident then nothing is.