Shell To Close 1,000 Retail Petrol(Gas) Stations By 2025 Greatly Expand EV Charging Network

[Rampant Rabbit]

Has this got  anything to do with Thailand? seems they have almost no share here anyway

[Chongalulu]

19 hours ago, transam said:

For sure, though I have never seen self-serve gas in LOS, in the west, for decades, but when that arrives here, a lot of locally employed non "educated" poorer folk will have a problem....🤔

That happens a lot here reflecting the much lower employment costs vs the costs of installing automation- the equation in developed countries is much different. Productivity is obviously much lower in thailand consequently which is not a good thing ultimately and they will eventually fall behind other countries by not focusing on upgrading skills/education..but that’s another story…

[thaibeachlovers]

Shell management is going to look like fools if hydrogen has a breakthrough and becomes the fuel of choice, or perhaps some technology that is yet to be invented.

 

I think I'd quite enjoy that.

 

Far as I'm concerned, any technology that doesn't rely on exploiting child labour in Africa, or causing massive amounts of pollution to make is a better option.

[transam]

31 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Has this got  anything to do with Thailand? seems they have almost no share here anyway

500+ Shell stations in LOS.......😉

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/22/2024 at 1:14 PM, Bandersnatch said:

The share of electric cars in new car sales has increased from less than 3% in 2018 to 18% in 2023,” the company said. 

Soooo, for the sake of 18% they are going to make the other 82% PO at them. Great business plan!

 

Where did those imbeciles go to school- the school for morons perhaps?

[Lacessit]

21 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

As the world goes EV we will only need 5% of the locations to charge our EV’s.

 

Many people will never need one at all.

Does your post embody the assumption most people will be recharging from rooftop solar? What is the data of percent people doing that now?

[Lacessit]

46 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Some garages only sell the 95 V Power at around 50 baht a litre, they lead naive people to that pump, even sometimes say 91 is finished (around 35 baht) @Peterw42

95 V power is 100% hydrocarbon, the Gasohol 95 is only about 0.5 baht dearer than 91.

[Lacessit]

51 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

I wonder how the ICE market will move in the next few year. I would be very reluctant to buy a new one these days. I will try to keep my 2 years old CRV for another 10 years, and replace the 5 years old "shopping Jazz" with an EV in 3 to 5 years. I don't think I am an isolated case, so this is very likely to cause a trough in the market. Now I know that many have a childish irrational need to have these noisy, stinking and expensive toys, while I am only buying transportation devices.

 

 

I'm predicting ICE's will be around for another 30-50 years. There simply are not enough raw materials around for EV's to completely replace them, 30% at best.

That may change as new mines come on stream, which usually takes 5-7 years.

Mines don't have an indefinite life, so new mines are not necessarily increasing supply.

[JBChiangRai]

18 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

Energy Transition Strategy report

 We have other competitive advantages, such as our convenience retail offering which allows us to offer our customers coffee, food and other convenience items as they charge their cars. As we grow our business offering charging for electric vehicles, we expect an internal rate of return of 12% or higher

https://www.shell.com/sustainability/our-climate-target/shell-energy-transition-strategy/_jcr_content/root/main/section/promo_copy_copy/links/item0.stream/1711012433598/39c528a7d85179adb1189fdc065aacbda5aab89f/shell-energy-transition-strategy-2024.pdf

 

If Shell is looking for a return of 12% or higher for public charging will that mean higher charging fees

Public charging he’s always going to be more expensive than charging at home, they are not charities they want to make some money.

 

Most people will rarely ever charge at a charging station, We’ve only done it once in two years and that is as a family with multiple  EV cars.

 

1 hour ago, milesinnz said:

I wonder where all the power is going to come from. I remember reading an article some years ago, and I am sure it said a lot of electricity is generated from gas... but the gas that Thailand has is due to run out very soon. So I guess they will be importing natural gas ? to make electricity, to charge electric cars. Why not just put the LPG straight into the cars. And what about the trucks.. electric trucks ?  .. they have not even electrified the rail system... I wonder if Thailand is heading for a power crisis in a few years time ?.. and with the weakness in the Thai economy where will the money come from to pay for the imported gas. I do not see the Mekong or solar power being sufficient for Thailand's needs...

EV’s use an average of 4 kWh per day, it’s not a huge amount for the grid to absorb.

 

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Shell management is going to look like fools if hydrogen has a breakthrough and becomes the fuel of choice, or perhaps some technology that is yet to be invented.

 

I think I'd quite enjoy that.

 

Far as I'm concerned, any technology that doesn't rely on exploiting child labour in Africa, or causing massive amounts of pollution to make is a better option.

 

I think you’ve probably read my post on why hydrogen is five times more expensive than an EV per kilometer to run. We will see hydrogen cars, but EV’s are always going to be the premium product.
 

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooo, for the sake of 18% they are going to make the other 82% PO at them. Great business plan!

 

Where did those imbeciles go to school- the school for morons perhaps?

it was 18% last year and 2% or 3% the year before, do you think it will only be 18% this year?

 

The 82% that you claim are going to be peed off with them is narrowing every year.  in any event I very much doubt they are peed off with them, there’s only a few ignorant people who hate EV’s for no logical reason.

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, milesinnz said:

do not see the Mekong or solar power being sufficient for Thailand's needs...

 

You obviously don’t know much about solar in Thailand.

 

* There are no high import duties or import bans on PV, inverters and batteries here. Solar components are falling in cost all the time

* Installation cost here are laughably cheap

* There are no permitting requirements for domestic solar

* Thailand is located close to the equator, meaning that solar production is excellent all year round

 

I use my solar system to power a 450m2 house, 2 EVs and an electric motorbike off-grid - I don’t have PEA/MEA

My EV has bi-directional charging meaning that I have the equivalent to 6 Tesla PowerWalls of backup power.

 

Future improvements:

My solar system makes more power than I can use, but I’m not allowed to feed it back to the grid.

In Europe they have dynamic pricing of electricity that reflects the wholesale rate, meaning that sometimes rates go negative and you get paid to charge your EV and at times of peak demand like early evening prices rise and you get paid a substantial amount for feeding power back to the grid.

[scubascuba3]

36 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

95 V power is 100% hydrocarbon, the Gasohol 95 is only about 0.5 baht dearer than 91.

PTT 91 is 1.5-2 less than 95, govt reduced the price, more at Shell

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I'm predicting ICE's will be around for another 30-50 years. There simply are not enough raw materials around for EV's to completely replace them, 30% at best.

That may change as new mines come on stream, which usually takes 5-7 years.

Mines don't have an indefinite life, so new mines are not necessarily increasing supply.

Dunno?...

 

Estimated capacity of lithium-ion batteries placed on the global market in 2020 with forecast for 2021 through 2030 

 

And then some idiotic paradigms persist, such as replacing ICEs by EVs one to one. I'd be glad to replace my CRV with fast speed electric trains combined with rental EVs at the arrival stations.

 

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Dunno?...

 

Estimated capacity of lithium-ion batteries placed on the global market in 2020 with forecast for 2021 through 2030 

 

And then some idiotic paradigms persist, such as replacing ICEs by EVs one to one. I'd be glad to replace my CRV with fast speed electric trains combined with rental EVs at the arrival stations.

 

Er - that is total lithium demand. Plus demand for other metals, such as copper, nickel, and cobalt. Let's not forget rare earths for magnets, such as neodymium and praseodymium.

 

Lithium is not only going into EV's, which require 60 - 80 kg. It's also 2-3 grams in every phone battery. There's Tesla Powerwalls, and a few tonnes in every large capacity storage bank being used to back up solar or wind power.

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, transam said:

500+ Shell stations in LOS.......😉

2200PTT 2000 Bangchak 800 PT

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

There simply are not enough raw materials around for EV's to completely replace them, 30% at best.

That may change as new mines come on stream, which usually takes 5-7 years.

Mines don't have an indefinite life, so new mines are not necessarily increasing supply.

 

 

Let's try a simple lesson in Economics: 

 

Market price is determined by the intersection of Supply and Demand. You are claiming there isn't sufficient supply of Li

 

If Lithium Supply cannot meet Demand then Price will Rise 

 

 

 

So what is actually happening to the price of Lithium?

 

 

So clearly Supply far exceeds Demand.

[transam]

11 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

2200PTT 2000 Bangchak 800 PT

I know, but 500+ is not to be sniffed at, is it.........😉

[milesinnz]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

You obviously don’t know much about solar in Thailand.

 

* There are no high import duties or import bans on PV, inverters and batteries here. Solar components are falling in cost all the time

* Installation cost here are laughably cheap

* There are no permitting requirements for domestic solar

* Thailand is located close to the equator, meaning that solar production is excellent all year round

 

I use my solar system to power a 450m2 house, 2 EVs and an electric motorbike off-grid - I don’t have PEA/MEA

My EV has bi-directional charging meaning that I have the equivalent to 6 Tesla PowerWalls of backup power.

 

Future improvements:

My solar system makes more power than I can use, but I’m not allowed to feed it back to the grid.

In Europe they have dynamic pricing of electricity that reflects the wholesale rate, meaning that sometimes rates go negative and you get paid to charge your EV and at times of peak demand like early evening prices rise and you get paid a substantial amount for feeding power back to the grid.

"Approximately 60 percent of electric power in Thailand is generated from natural gas. With domestic gas reserves projected to dry up in the next 10-20 years, liquefied natural gas (LNG) will play a critical role in ensuring long-term electricity security"..  renewable is 5%.. and that might not all be solar.. large scale solar power storage has not been solved other than perhaps pumped water. I wonder how much your power investment represents ? you think that average Thai can afford your level of investment..  residential power is about 1/3 of the power consumption of Thailand... so how are the factories, trucks and businesses going to be kept going at night.. all by battery power.. you don't seem to have a grasp on the issues..

[vinny41]

it will be interesting to see if this model of charging takes off in Thailand ( might be useful for solar panels installations to recover some of their investment costs )

https://co-charger.com/

[Mr Meeseeks]

21 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

Here another one, and even not a 'stupidfarang'

 

I mention some time ago, at the time the penny was abolished, that was the only company that put 2 cents on the pump gauge without you having even filled up a drop.

In the Netherlands, they have a refinery that also refines for other companies but still Shell's price is always the highest.

 

You got to pay for those higher safety standards, better ethics and higher moral business practices somehow. 

[Lacessit]

45 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

Let's try a simple lesson in Economics: 

 

Market price is determined by the intersection of Supply and Demand. You are claiming there isn't sufficient supply of Li

 

If Lithium Supply cannot meet Demand then Price will Rise 

 

 

 

So what is actually happening to the price of Lithium?

 

 

So clearly Supply far exceeds Demand.

I am aware of that model. It assumes there are only two variables present in the system. There are things called confounding variables.

If, for example, manufacturing capacity for EV's is limited by the supply of another critical metal such as cobalt, the demand  for lithium will fall by reason of that constraint.

Or if two presidential candidates declare they are bringing EV manufacturing capability back to the USA, Chinese manufacturers would be cancelling forward orders, and running down their stocks.

After all, the US is their biggest market.

As I said, there is only enough lithium around for 30% replacement of EV's, unless it can be got out of seawater economically. IIRC, 55,000 litres of seawater is needed to produce 1 kg of lithium. The average EV needs 60 kg.

Thank you for the economics lesson, albeit unnecessary.

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

You got to pay for those higher safety standards, better ethics and higher moral business practices somehow. 

https://maritime-executive.com/article/shell-fined-1-2m-after-worker-s-feet-were-crushed-in-gangway-accident

[Bandersnatch]

15 minutes ago, milesinnz said:

"Approximately 60 percent of electric power in Thailand is generated from natural gas. With domestic gas reserves projected to dry up in the next 10-20 years, liquefied natural gas (LNG) will play a critical role in ensuring long-term electricity security"..  renewable is 5%.. and that might not all be solar.. large scale solar power storage has not been solved other than perhaps pumped water. I wonder how much your power investment represents ? you think that average Thai can afford your level of investment..  residential power is about 1/3 of the power consumption of Thailand... so how are the factories, trucks and businesses going to be kept going at night.. all by battery power.. you don't seem to have a grasp on the issues..

 

Unlike you I am a member of number of online solar and EV groups in Thailand and demand for both is through the roof.

 

Thailand EV sales in 2023 went up 684% vs 2022, now 12% of total new car sales

https://paultan.org/2024/01/09/thailand-ev-sales-in-2023-went-up-684-vs-2022-now-12-of-total-new-car-sales-byd-top-neta-second/

 

Most of the EVs sold in Thailand now come with V2L, meaning that the owner has access to a massive battery storage. 

 

When it comes to solar you ask "you think that average Thai can afford your level of investment." Solar is far cheaper than an EV maybe you didn't know that. You don't need an off-grid system like mine and many Thais are buying them. I have 2 Thai friends in the solar install business and they have never been busier. You claim "renewable is 5%" this is only commercial solar not domestic, which is not recorded. 

 

Yes natural gas is currently the main source of power for production of electricity generation but basic economics dictates that solar will grow rapidly in Thailand as it is the cheapest form of energy. 

 

 

 

[milesinnz]

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Unlike you I am a member of number of online solar and EV groups in Thailand and demand for both is through the roof.

 

Thailand EV sales in 2023 went up 684% vs 2022, now 12% of total new car sales

https://paultan.org/2024/01/09/thailand-ev-sales-in-2023-went-up-684-vs-2022-now-12-of-total-new-car-sales-byd-top-neta-second/

 

Most of the EVs sold in Thailand now come with V2L, meaning that the owner has access to a massive battery storage. 

 

When it comes to solar you ask "you think that average Thai can afford your level of investment." Solar is far cheaper than an EV maybe you didn't know that. You don't need an off-grid system like mine and many Thais are buying them. I have 2 Thai friends in the solar install business and they have never been busier. You claim "renewable is 5%" this is only commercial solar not domestic, which is not recorded. 

 

Yes natural gas is currently the main source of power for production of electricity generation but basic economics dictates that solar will grow rapidly in Thailand as it is the cheapest form of energy. 

 

 

 

I don't doubt it is going through the roof.. I will be installing solar on our farm in Cambodia... but at only 5% being renewable in Thailand.. and that will be the total renewable... I don't know what % will be solar... there is a long way to go... where does all the power come from to run the night time aircon, all the businesses and factories at night.. and Thailand does not even have an electrified rail system. So all the Kubota tractors are going to be replaced by electric tractors ?... how many electric tractors are there in Thailand ? Solar capacity has to go up by a factor of 10 just to get to 50%. I really have no knowledge of how factories and businesses would be powered at night - don't forget all the aircon. Battery ??? "Solar is far cheaper than an EV maybe you didn't know that".. what are you trying to say ???? Thailand is a country with economic problems and where personal debt is huge.. so Thais will borrow more ?... but I would say the sooner they can get battery buses in BKK and other major cities the better. My issue is with the numbers... so what happens at night ? Thailand runs on batteries ?

[vinny41]

Thailand’s automotive market in 2023 recorded 775,780 vehicles sold

Thailand EV sales in 2023 of 76,314 represents 9.84% market share not 12.02%

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40035263

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

95 V power is 100% hydrocarbon, the Gasohol 95 is only about 0.5 baht dearer than 91.

 

It's not 100% hydrocarbon. It's Benzene (which of course is a hydrocarbon) but with additives. How many percent the additives make in volume or mass is anyones guess though.

[eisfeld]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Where did those imbeciles go to school- the school for morons perhaps?

 

Yea they are so stupid making all those billions. Too stupid to count all that money!

[Bandersnatch]

48 minutes ago, milesinnz said:

but at only 5% being renewable in Thailand.. and that will be the total renewable.

 

When you install solar on your home in Thailand you are not required to submit any paperwork unless you want to be part of the Rooftop Solar program, which very few people do as it's not an an attractive scheme. So no record is kept of domestic solar installs, so as I said "5% solar is only commercial" 

 

48 minutes ago, milesinnz said:

where does all the power come from to run the night time aircon, all the businesses and factories at night..

 

Demand for electricity at night is a fraction of that during the day, that is why night time electricity is half the price of day time use. 

 

 

Battery prices have continued to fall and as the Thai government wants all new cars sold to be electric by the year 2035 most homes will have access to 50kWh+ of battery storage. If consumers could be incentivized to sell some of this stored power back at times of peak demand it would be a win win.

 

You have not mentioned wind power which tends to produce more at night. Thailand has long coast lines and shallow coastal waters 

 

[vinny41]

Volvo Thailand offering free charging for Volvo Customers

For electric vehicle (EV) charging stations, the pilot launches at 4 branches, including Volvo Phra Nakhon, Vibhavadi branch, Scandinavian Auto, Hathairat branch, Pacific Thai Motor Sport, Hua Mak branch, and GT Auto, Pattaya branch, by Wal-Mart customers. Vo can bring in the car for charging at no charge

Volvo solar charging stations, charging free of charge

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/technology/volvo-solar-charging-stations-charging-free-of-charge

 

[macahoom]

32 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Volvo solar charging stations, charging free of charge

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/technology/volvo-solar-charging-stations-charging-free-of-charge

 

Do you realize this is old news?

 

The article was published in January 2023.

 

And the comments below it are predictably, hilariously imbecilic.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

 

It's not 100% hydrocarbon. It's Benzene (which of course is a hydrocarbon) but with additives. How many percent the additives make in volume or mass is anyones guess though.

Benzene is classed as an aromatic hydrocarbon. The other aromatics which may be present are toluene and xylene. Which may be the additives you refer to.

 

Benzene is a known human carcinogen, causing acute leukemia.