Help! Farang In Thailand

[yrushme]

Hello this is a very long story but I'm going to try to make it simple and direct living in Thailand for 5 years I built a home, I'm a retired law biding citizens in Thailand, I met a Russian man that told me to invest in some money I decided not to do, but a foreigner that was staying in Thailand during a  conversation they became friends we had coffee he the American wanted to do it business , so he sent 1 million by to my bank account because the Russians said he doesn't have an account, doing the transaction, me and the foreigner got together and decided that maybe the Russian guys dishonest is something is not right so we should not give him any money, I explain that to the Russian man where he threatened and came to my house in the middle of the night, and said he needs the money My fiance  having a business for 15 years a hair salon,  neighbors said foreigners came waiting at 11pm at night for 30min  so I went to the police and made a police report about the Russian man, scare for my life I left Thailand for a little while, I changed my phone number and everything but during this time I was wiring back money to the foreigner that deposit the 1 million baht into my account, He was impatient and went to the police and said I didn't pay him?  they froze the bank account that still has the money has his money,  in my account I have documents from the bank that I tried to send the money but he gave me the wrong information, me and him went to the police he told the police he must have gave me the wrong information The police insisted that I gave him 1 million by cash and they were unreleased the money and it will come back to me, I don't have a million baht, because of the Russian man I had to move and pack all my things in fleeing for my safety and my fiance safety, now I got an attorney that talk to the police about the situation, and they said that they're trying to possibly charge me for money laundering, I have never done anything like this, once again I'm honest individual, retired airline crew, so the police said that the prosecutor will press charges, once again I have all the evidence that I try to send the money back and the gentleman that put the money in my account is a retired, American Naval officer, none of his money is from illicit gane, now I'm just sitting around wondering what the police are doing? 😞 I called the US embassy and told him my situation they told me to get an attorney, I told him the Russian man is looking for me and now I'm afraid of the police and the Russian man what do I do?  😭

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, yrushme said:

he the American wanted to do it business , so he sent 1 million by to my bank account because the Russians said he doesn't have an account

 

6 minutes ago, yrushme said:

possibly charge me for money laundering, I have never done anything like this

 

That is exactly what you did. Maybe not knowingly, but that doesn't change the fact.

But then, giving someone your bank account number so that that someone can deposit a million and you will give it to someone else, what did you think at that moment? Did you "think"? 

[oldscool]

Based on what you've said, there is no case against you. You haven't moved any money, you haven't laundered anything, indeed you've tried to return it.

 

Three things surprise me about the American: 1. That he would take this offer seriously and transfer 1m. 2. that he would give you the wrong account information for what is a fairly substantial refund transfer. 3. That he didn't he give the cash to the Russian himself if as you say they became friends, why?

 

As for the Russian, he has no claim on anything. I assume you've got his contact info and have given it to the police?

 

As for what you/your lawyer can do. Some combination of talking to the bank, the police and the prosecutor.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, yrushme said:

Hello this is a very long story but I'm going to try to make it simple and direct living in Thailand for 5 years I built a home, I'm a retired law biding citizens in Thailand, I met a Russian man that told me to invest in some money I decided not to do, but a foreigner that was staying in Thailand during a  conversation they became friends we had coffee he the American wanted to do it business , so he sent 1 million by to my bank account because the Russians said he doesn't have an account, doing the transaction, me and the foreigner got together and decided that maybe the Russian guys dishonest is something is not right so we should not give him any money, I explain that to the Russian man where he threatened and came to my house in the middle of the night, and said he needs the money My fiance  having a business for 15 years a hair salon,  neighbors said foreigners came waiting at 11pm at night for 30min  so I went to the police and made a police report about the Russian man, scare for my life I left Thailand for a little while, I changed my phone number and everything but during this time I was wiring back money to the foreigner that deposit the 1 million baht into my account, He was impatient and went to the police and said I didn't pay him?  they froze the bank account that still has the money has his money,  in my account I have documents from the bank that I tried to send the money but he gave me the wrong information, me and him went to the police he told the police he must have gave me the wrong information The police insisted that I gave him 1 million by cash and they were unreleased the money and it will come back to me, I don't have a million baht, because of the Russian man I had to move and pack all my things in fleeing for my safety and my fiance safety, now I got an attorney that talk to the police about the situation, and they said that they're trying to possibly charge me for money laundering, I have never done anything like this, once again I'm honest individual, retired airline crew, so the police said that the prosecutor will press charges, once again I have all the evidence that I try to send the money back and the gentleman that put the money in my account is a retired, American Naval officer, none of his money is from illicit gane, now I'm just sitting around wondering what the police are doing? 😞 I called the US embassy and told him my situation they told me to get an attorney, I told him the Russian man is looking for me and now I'm afraid of the police and the Russian man what do I do?  😭

Have you ever heard of punctuation. Your post is very difficult to read.

[steven100]

The whole story is hard to decipher ....    Maybe it's time to get outta Dodge  

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, yrushme said:

Hello this is a very long story but I'm going to try to make it simple and direct living in Thailand for 5 years I built a home, I'm a retired law biding citizens in Thailand, I met a Russian man that told me to invest in some money I decided not to do, but a foreigner that was staying in Thailand during a  conversation they became friends we had coffee he the American wanted to do it business , so he sent 1 million by to my bank account because the Russians said he doesn't have an account, doing the transaction, me and the foreigner got together and decided that maybe the Russian guys dishonest is something is not right so we should not give him any money, I explain that to the Russian man where he threatened and came to my house in the middle of the night, and said he needs the money My fiance  having a business for 15 years a hair salon,  neighbors said foreigners came waiting at 11pm at night for 30min  so I went to the police and made a police report about the Russian man, scare for my life I left Thailand for a little while, I changed my phone number and everything but during this time I was wiring back money to the foreigner that deposit the 1 million baht into my account, He was impatient and went to the police and said I didn't pay him?  they froze the bank account that still has the money has his money,  in my account I have documents from the bank that I tried to send the money but he gave me the wrong information, me and him went to the police he told the police he must have gave me the wrong information The police insisted that I gave him 1 million by cash and they were unreleased the money and it will come back to me, I don't have a million baht, because of the Russian man I had to move and pack all my things in fleeing for my safety and my fiance safety, now I got an attorney that talk to the police about the situation, and they said that they're trying to possibly charge me for money laundering, I have never done anything like this, once again I'm honest individual, retired airline crew, so the police said that the prosecutor will press charges, once again I have all the evidence that I try to send the money back and the gentleman that put the money in my account is a retired, American Naval officer, none of his money is from illicit gane, now I'm just sitting around wondering what the police are doing? 😞 I called the US embassy and told him my situation they told me to get an attorney, I told him the Russian man is looking for me and now I'm afraid of the police and the Russian man what do I do?  😭

Paragraphs were invented for a reason. As were full stops.

[Gaccha]

From many years of working as a lawyer, I found that the key is in the details. Details, details and more details. The details reveal your intentions, whether they are innocent or criminal in nature.

 

I'm no expert on Thai law, but there seem to be several possible criminal acts here, including money laundering and an attempt at extortion. 

 

The question is would a reasonable person believe that the act of moving a large sum of money for the benefit of somebody they barely know have a criminal aim? I think they would. Would your various further actions be the actions of a person with innocent intent or a person with criminal intent? 

 

The vagueness of your story and your explanations, remind me of criminals in court trying to evade the facts. As the other learned commentators have pointed out, your story sucks.

 

Whether the prosecution will succeed against you, will simply depend on little details that we don't have, and that I'm sure you don't want to provide. 

 

Many of the extremely annoying banking rules that waste hours and hours of our time, are because of money launderers. It is estimated that about 20% of all money in circulation is dirty money. It's a huge problem. These people deserve the greatest punishment.

 

Edited May 16 by Gaccha

[Yagoda]

Go back to the states, clearly you dont have the mental chops to live overseas.

[yrushme]

I gave you all the details I told you that the foreign man was the one that wanted to invest I didn't coerced him we were all sitting down talking remember I don't have money I don't have that type of money to do anything like that, if the man sends me money to invest in a business and me helping out how am I wrong for doing that All I'm saying is that I have bank documents that I tried to send the money back, I understand everyone's comments and I don't take it personal I just want your opinion maybe I did wrong by letting him use my bank account, at the same time there's no illegal money being transferred I saved a foreigner money from giving it to this Russian guy I don't I blocked the Russian guy I reported him to the police, so all the facts are there documented and translated in Thai language from the banks from the text messages there was never intent to do anything wrong and mind you like I mentioned the foreign guy and me went to the police after he made the report and he realised he gave me the wrong information it could have been done with but the police didn't want to do it this is where I'm confused? My attorney told me someone can send you money it's not illegal and if you want to pay back you pay it back but if things occur that didn't allow it because of misinformation that's not illegal this is where I'm confused.

[oldscool]

For the OP

1 minute ago, yrushme said:

if the man sends me money to invest in a business and me helping out how am I wrong for doing that

Correct, there is absolutely nothing wrong in doing that.

 

There could only be a money laundering case if the American's money was dirty and you were colluding with him to clean it.

[yrushme]

The money that came from his account is from his retirement from the Navy, this is the reason why I don't understand money laundering?

[yrushme]

The only reason I joined this forum is to get advice for felt from fellow foreigners, I'm not here to tell you that I'm a good or bad person but in times we do need people and I'm asking for help and advice, remember this is not our country we are just visitors, if you said in this criticise situations like this it doesn't make the situation better, please don't do negative comments at life on my situation there'll be time in life when you need someone and all my asking and saying that I need someone to help with advice nothing more I'll get through this with God is good and I'm a good man , God fearing man please keep your negative comments or jokes because one day you might be in the situation you need help take care.

Edited May 16 by yrushme
Redo

[oldscool]

 

Given what you've said about the American's background and assuming his money was cleared by the Thai Central Bank, there is no case for money laundering.

 

I think the best course of action would be for your lawyer to present the relevant evidence to the public prosecutor, who I'm sure will drop the case based on what you've said.

[freeworld]

Deleted comment.

Edited May 16 by freeworld

[Trippy]

I don't understand why you just don't give the million in cash to the Russian guy? Isn't that where it's supposed to go anyways. 

Just get a receipt.

[oldscool]

The simplest solution is to go with your American friend to the police station and explain the situation.

 

The police can then instruct the bank to unfreeze the account, and cancel any referral they’ve made to the public prosecutor.

 

That would be the best scenario and the cheapest as you wouldn’t need a lawyer.

 

By the way, anyone can go to the public prosecutor’s office, foreign or Thai, it’s just a government office. But it’s not clear whether the public prosecutor has been notified, so I wouldn’t do this at the moment.

 

You don’t actually need a lawyer for any of the above, but as always a key issue is the language barrier.

[bbko]

23 hours ago, Trippy said:

I don't understand why you just don't give the million in cash to the Russian guy? Isn't that where it's supposed to go anyways. 

Just get a receipt.

Yes, if no one in this trio had any worries, all three gather at the police station (with your lawyer) and explain the story to the police and then you hand over the money that you agreed to do in the first place.

 

Do you also help out people at the airport by taking their luggage in your name on international flights?

 

[Prubangboy]

Why can't people use the basic brains that God gave them and hit the return key to create occasional paragraphs?

 

This fundamental stupidity underlies and explains the bigger stupidity.

 

Agree as per above: the whole story isn't being told her and I detect a whiff of troll-dom.

[Trippy]

33 minutes ago, bbko said:

Yes, if no one in this trio had any worries, all three gather at the police station (with your lawyer) and explain the story to the police and then you hand over the money that you agreed to do in the first place.

 

Do you also help out people at the airport by taking their luggage in your name on international flights?

 

It's great how people leave such nasty comments on this forum.

 

FYI, I wouldn't have agreed to do this in the first place, but since he did, it would have been best to go through with it and not withhold money that doesn't belong to him. People will do very drastic acts if you take their money.

Edited May 17 by Trippy

[oldscool]

 

But the OP didn't withhold any money.

 

My understanding is that the American friend on whose behalf the OP was acting backed out of the deal after transferring the money to the OP, and then made a mistake on his bank a/c details for the refund, which was consequently delayed. The American friend then got impatient, went to the police station, and the police contacted the bank who then blocked the account.

 

If I've misunderstood him then I hope he will correct me, and I can reconsider my advice. In any case we can only advise on the basis of what has been written, not on the basis of speculation.

 

Clearly English is not his first language, but assuming English is the first language of the commenters then it should be easy enough for them to understand the key points of his post.

 

As for layout, the OP was his 2nd  post on the forum. 

[KhunLA]

So you ripped the Yank off...😎

[yrushme]

Thank you English is my first language but sometime I do speech text, I'm sorry for the confusion and I appreciate everyone's advice, I'm talking slower now hahaha, I have an update, The police call my fiance and said the American friend decided to compromise, like he wanted to do the first time a week ago, but I guess He realised he wouldn't get his money unless the police unfreeze the bank account.. but I'm a little bit worried still about one thing, not trusting the police, they said that she can go along to the police department next week, in but make sure to bring my passport, Sone can do the paperwork to unfreeze the account and give him his money, my fiance is on the account, The only purpose is because we are madly in love and I've been supporting her, and myself...and because  periodically I send money from the US from my pension to take care of living expenses, to be honest and truly Frank, after all this, I don't trust the police I think they want to keep my passport? All the sudden everything is okay no charges, and he agreed to compromise and just take what's due something that could have been done when we first went to the police department I don't know so I'll just give a copy of my passport... Any positive feedback would be great and thank you for all the people that at least said something that made me feel a little bit better, you are feeling so we do make mistakes and my mistake was trust..

[yrushme]

The police want you and me to sign documents authorizing him  to withdraw cash in person at the bank.   with  power of attorney, he attached documents to unlock the bank account but  I must  wait at the police station,  they want your passport and my ID card. This was just sent to fiance from police? Is this accurate? 

[Hummin]

Why? 

 

What did they promise you in return? 

[yrushme]

Like I mentioned the gentleman sent money to my account I sent it back to him He gave me the wrong information we lost contact for a little while about 5 days He was inpatient went to the police and said that I try to scam him, when he realised he gave me the wrong information in front of the police a week ago and told them that  they still wouldn't unfreeze the account to pay him, they wanted me to come up with 1 million baht in cash to bring to the police station, then they were unfreeze my account and then I get the million baht back? Now a week later, police just called and said that they will unfreeze the account as long as he can go into my account and pull out the cash  himself, not for me to  give it to him, they think that  I might run with the money? If I didn't run with the money the first time why would I do it now?  totally don't understand? And they want me to go to the police department, give them my passport?

[Keeps]

Seriously, does anyone believe this crock of <deleted>e?

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, Keeps said:

Seriously, does anyone believe this crock of <deleted>e?

 

I believe such minds can easy get themselves into such a pickle.

 

The Op can't even be bothered to use paragraphs or full stops, clearly not a person with any concern for detail or the legibility of his comments...

Edited May 17 by richard_smith237

[oldscool]

 

@yrushme

 

The power of attorney would need to be very specific, detailing;

 

your and your wife's passport/id info as you're the joint account holders

your and your wife's signatures as you're giving the power of attorney

the American's passport info, as he's the recipient

the amount to be withdrawn and paid to the recipient

the bank and account details

identification of the person you are giving the power to (ie the police officer's name, rank and number).

 

I'd also suggest the American waits in the police station with you so you can all see the transfer and closure.

 

BUT I've never actually heard of the police doing it this way before, but I can check, and get back to you. You could also ask your wife to ask your lawyer what he thinks, assuming your lawyer doesn't speak English and you don't speak Thai.

 

@keeps This is too fantastical to make up, and yes this kind of tangle is not uncommon here, so I'm inclined to believe the OP, there are many small details that add to the verisimilitude. People backing out of deals, then complaining, and accounts getting frozen until it's sorted out is no big deal, but it can be incredibly stressful for the people involved.

[oldscool]

I'm advised that the police cannot do it this way.

 

But the police can send an official letter to the bank countersigned by you and your wife as account holders instructing the bank to unfreeze the account and transfer the money back to the American who sent you the money in the first place.

 

I'm sure some posters here will say the police were trying to scam you, hardly likely as they would be identifying themselves!!! I think it's more likely that something was lost in translation.

[Dan O]

On 5/15/2024 at 11:05 PM, yrushme said:

The only reason I joined this forum is to get advice for felt from fellow foreigners, I'm not here to tell you that I'm a good or bad person but in times we do need people and I'm asking for help and advice, remember this is not our country we are just visitors, if you said in this criticise situations like this it doesn't make the situation better, please don't do negative comments at life on my situation there'll be time in life when you need someone and all my asking and saying that I need someone to help with advice nothing more I'll get through this with God is good and I'm a good man , God fearing man please keep your negative comments or jokes because one day you might be in the situation you need help take care.

The probable issue is your actions match a "mule" account for laundering money and thats most likely what the hold up is. They are cracking down on this since the beginning of this year. You took money from someone else with the intent to let them "use" your account intending on forwarding the money on to a third party, that seems sketchy. Even though you never finished the transaction to the Russian you and the American alerted the police of what you were intending on doing. Thats money laundering in a vague sense. You can claim all day you are innocent and never did the transaction but the first half match a "mule" account. Every illegal caught claims they are innocent but most arent. You may be and your best defense is all the documentation available to show what the intent was why it happened why it was stopped and that the american agrees since it was his money and the burden is on him to prove he sent you legal money. It will cost a load of money if you to go thru court if you cant get the lawyer to sit with you the american and the police to straighten it all out.