Crackdown On Back-to-back Tourist Visa Applications

[punisher]

It is easy follow the law and you have no problems.Try to get a visa for europe as Thai people and you will see were it is the most difficult.

If you work get a workpermit like in every decent country in the world and you get a 1 year renewable visa.If you are retired put 800.000 baht in a thai account and you get also the same visa.The people who complain are those who are doing monkey business and think that as foreigner all is allowed.Dont forget we are guest here no local people.

yeah right compare 1stworld with 3rdworld,what do u think if europe says everybody can come, no need visa,in 6 months thailand can shut down,because everybody is in europe,i think maybe 1% of tourist visa holders are working here[european,americans]those people harm nobody,because thais probably can't do the job,so they don't take jobs away from thais!!!i had tourist visa for myself for 4 yrs,at that time i got 75000baht pension,but they said im to young for non whatever visa,then how to do?

[Mercury]

So they once again fail to address the issue of non retirees or those under 50 years old wanting to make Thailand their home or semi permanent residence. They bang the "illegal worker" drum but never try to work out why people may actually work illegally. Cost, pure and simple. Make it relatively painless to go legitimate and you solve the problem.

If you want to stay in Thailand a long time, then just prove you can afford to do so. The Bt65k a month is the only figure which is already in the public domain so use that one. If you have Bt200k in the bank then you get 3 months etc. If you own your own home, then some discount is applied as you do not have to pay rent.

Lets be serious, everyone can fly to a friendly consulate and get a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant "O" visa. The problem is that it costs about Bt60k to Bt100k when you add in all the visa trips every 90 days and the flights etc. Surely an easier way would be to offer some sort of legalisation which cost less.

[punisher]

The sky is falling, it's the end of the world as we know it and I'm packing my bags and on the next plane to a civilised country.

(Not really, just wanted to be the first to say that on this thread.)

Thailand's government and consulates and immigrations really are doing whatever they can to make it difficult for people to stay in the country!

Foreigners are the ones bringing in all the money! So why are they trying to kick and drive all the foreigners away??

How stupid!! They would cut their notse off to spite their face as the saying goes!!

Unbelievable...

what is the policy in your own country ? if you are tourist, BE a tourist. if you want to stay and work, get a non-B or non-O. you want to benefit from this country and not give anything in return ? well, i guess that's why are you unhappy with this solution...

how many american or european tourists are working here?nonsense

[Leesoi2]

Hi Everybody,

I have a multi entry non immigrant O and it will be used up in about 3 months. When the article at the start of this thread said" Foreigners living in Thailand are advised to obtain a Non-Immigrant visa, which can be extended up to one year by the Thai Immigration Bureau. " does that mean I can somehow get mine extended? If so, how and where?

I am married to a Thai and have 5 children with her, it is getting too expensive to fly us all back and forth so often so I would like to stay longer. I don't have the 400k (or is it 800k) in a Thai bank and my income from the states is in irregular amounts so I don't think I qualify for a better visa. Any pertinent info is genuinely appreciated, best regards, Lee

[thaijasmine]

SO in order to be legal, one has to get somewhere about 60000 dollars plus expenses to set up a Thai company and in most cases (non-Americans) do not even get the majority of it. Oh snap, I forgot: You have to find SIX other shareholders for your little start-up Empire.

And before the Thai shareholders didnt need to know each other so they couldn't gang up

on you.but even that has changed now ( now they must be able

to communicate with each other )so who is really in the driving seat on that issue ?

[JSixpack]

We need a sort of "Dear Abbey" here to counsel our affected members.

so how does one stay if he cant qualify for some visa's, like 200,000 baht or whatever it may take? i am moving to the philippines but rather live in Thailand. i dont want to travel every 30 days.

It's rather like, how do you buy a $200,000 house if you don't have the cash and don't qualify for a loan for that amount? You don't.

You've made a rational decision.

I spent 2 years living in thailand and didn't work illegally, i just like the place and enjoy the beach and the food.

Shame it's hard and hard to work for 1 year in Australia and then spend all the money in Thailand over 2 years.

No, you can spend it faster now or find a way to pay more than just sales tax in Thailand. Could you learn to like Filipino food or learn to cook Thai?

I am slightly short of the monthly amount for marriage visa Wife's income is not allowed.and no way do I have 400,000THB for a visa I used the money to build my house, 3 years ago on wife's family land. Now I have a house a wife and no where to live. She earns us both a living by farming Tilapia. Paying others to feed and tend them. Where to now?

JB

You built a B400,000 (!) house upcountry? And no doubt it's in your wife's name as well as being on her land.

Um. Well, that seems to have been a mistake.

OK, then rent out the house or sell it. Your wife loves you and will understand. Sorted.

Edited September 11, 2009 by JSixpack

[oevna]

I wonder what fraction of the total number of illegal workers this new policy is targeting, and what fraction of the people who will be affected by it are actually illegal workers.

In other words, suppose there are a huge number of illegal workers, but only a small number of them entered Thailand on 60-day tourist visas. And suppose there are a large number of tourists on 60-day visas, but only a small number of them engage in illegal employment while in Thailand. Is this policy going to do more harm than good to the Thai economy, by shutting out more tourism-related revenue, while only preventing a small amount of illegal employment, and costing money to enforce? I wonder if they have done a cost analysis of this policy.

[Oberkommando]

Didn't take long for the 'I'm a better expat than you' brigade to show up on this thread.

I hope Thailand continues to force out foreigners, as my girlfriend's bar and other tourism based businesses in Phnom Penh are now getting busier and busier with the over-spill, and are doing a roaring trade, so my heart-felt thanks to the Thai Immigration Department.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Oberkommando

[marco07]

There is NOTHING written in stone or "grandfathered in" about the various Non-Imm visa policies or the amount of funds required for marriage, biz or retirement. To the "I've got mine, Jack!" voices; try not to be so smug. There is no telling when someone will get a wild hair up his arse and come after you! Every expat ought to be concerned about the creeping restrictions.

Agree with general principle that people without proper visas should not be working in Thailand. Its the same in Europe and most other countries so Thailand has the right to expect the same. However, the laws are not objective and subject to various interpretations. For instance, I have retired in Thailand but am not yet 50 years old so cannot apply for a retirement visa. I have 3 kids with my British wife who are now going to school in Thailand and they have an ED visa and my wife has a Non-Imm O visa as guardian. We are married and both look after the children, but some of the consulates wont issue the father with a Non-Imm O, only the mother (eg, Sing, HK, Tokyo). Some others will (eg Hull, KL, Houston). I have had to travel back to Europe in order to get one....the inconsistencies are the most annoying things and the practice of some consulates not to issue the father with the appropriate visa is just ludicrous....we are contributing to the Thai economy by spending a lot of money on sending kids to school and living here.

[sassienie]

Crackdown on back-to-back Tourist visa applications

Extended screening of visa applicants

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- In a crackdown on the 60-days tourist visas, several Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates has announced increased screening of tourist visa applicants. We also have several reports on the Thaivisa Forum that this practice already has been enforced by some Embassies and Consulates.

The joint announcement reads: "As there has been a number of visa applicants having entered Thailand via tourist visa and misused it to illegally seek employment during their stay and, upon its expiry, sought to re-apply their tourist visas at the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring countries, requests for visa renewal by such applicants are subject to rejection as their applications are not based on tourism motive, but to continue their illegal employment, which is unlawful.

This is in accordance with the Immigration Act, B.B. 2552 which stipulates that visa applicants are required to clearly express their real purpose of visiting Thailand. Should the case be found that the applicant’s real intention were concealed, the application will be rejected.

Please be informed that the intention of applicants to repeatedly depart and re-enter Thailand via tourist visa issued by the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring countries in recent years upon its expiry, is considered as concealment of real purpose of visiting Thailand. Thus their visas applications will be rejected."

Foreigners living in Thailand are advised to obtain a Non-Immigrant visa, which can be extended up to one year by the Thai Immigration Bureau.

Thaivisa.com has today confirmed with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok, that the extended applicant screening will take effect immediately.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-09-11

Attached is an example of a Royal Thai Embassy Joint Announcement, courtesy of the embassy in Helsinki.

Great news. Every little helps.

The End Is Nigh for the visa runners, illegals and the dross.

[Oberkommando]

The End Is Nigh for the visa runners, illegals and the dross.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you are immune to Thai Immigration crackdowns in the future, because you certainly are not.

[chrisdom]

Think of all of the "teaching" vacancies there will suddenly be!

Opportunity knocks!

[antony77]

About time too. Other countries allow tourists to stay up to 6 months. Anyone that stays beyond this can hardly be called a tourist. I would call them tax dodgers they contribute nothing in the way of taxes. A lot do work illegally and many are pretty low life. There presence in Thailand will not be missed if they have to leave.

[loong]

Exactly, and this is what people fail to see here. The crackdown really is all about those who are not tourists. People working over the internet, exporting rags to their home country, selling stuff at ebay or teaching illegally or just residing here "permanently" with funds outside.

Yes. These guys are basically freeloaders. You may say they support the local economy by spending, but whoever conducts a business, have to register, like any other country in the world.

If there are indeed so many people here running ebay and export businesses or teaching without the necessary permits, I just don't see the connection with tourist visas.

That is what this thread is about for those who have forgotten - tourist visas.

Is there any reason to believe that people working here illegally only have tourist visas?

Why would somebody with a 1 year non immigrant or a 1 year extension based on marriage/retirement be less likely to be working illegally than those with tourist visas?

Wouldn't it make more sense to identify foreigners who are working and check that they have the required permits? After all, how difficult can it be to identify a foreigner working as a tour guide or teacher?

People who are working illegally will just get a different type of visa, whereas some people who only contribute to the Thai economy by spending their foreign currency are just getting peed off with all these constant rule changes/enforcements and might just give Thailand a wide berth in future.

Concerning Westerners, I think that there can only be a very tiny % working illegally.

[lopburi3]

I am slightly short of the monthly amount for marriage visa Wife's income is not allowed.and no way do I have 400,000THB for a visa I used the money to build my house, 3 years ago on wife's family land. Now I have a house a wife and no where to live. She earns us both a living by farming Tilapia. Paying others to feed and tend them. Where to now?

JB

Obtain a non immigrant O visa. KL is easy and with proof of 30-100k in bank account (or even less) in bank account will issue multi entry valid for a year of 90 day stays. That covers up to 15 months with only a border crossing/return required every 90 days.

[antony77]

Crackdown on back-to-back Tourist visa applications

Extended screening of visa applicants

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- In a crackdown on the 60-days tourist visas, several Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates has announced increased screening of tourist visa applicants. We also have several reports on the Thaivisa Forum that this practice already has been enforced by some Embassies and Consulates.

The joint announcement reads: "As there has been a number of visa applicants having entered Thailand via tourist visa and misused it to illegally seek employment during their stay and, upon its expiry, sought to re-apply their tourist visas at the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring countries, requests for visa renewal by such applicants are subject to rejection as their applications are not based on tourism motive, but to continue their illegal employment, which is unlawful.

This is in accordance with the Immigration Act, B.B. 2552 which stipulates that visa applicants are required to clearly express their real purpose of visiting Thailand. Should the case be found that the applicant’s real intention were concealed, the application will be rejected.

Please be informed that the intention of applicants to repeatedly depart and re-enter Thailand via tourist visa issued by the Royal Thai Embassy or the Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring countries in recent years upon its expiry, is considered as concealment of real purpose of visiting Thailand. Thus their visas applications will be rejected."

Foreigners living in Thailand are advised to obtain a Non-Immigrant visa, which can be extended up to one year by the Thai Immigration Bureau.

Thaivisa.com has today confirmed with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok, that the extended applicant screening will take effect immediately.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-09-11

Attached is an example of a Royal Thai Embassy Joint Announcement, courtesy of the embassy in Helsinki.

Great news. Every little helps.

The End Is Nigh for the visa runners, illegals and the dross.

About time too. Other countries allow tourists to stay up to 6 months. Anyone that stays beyond this can hardly be called a tourist. I would call them tax dodgers they contribute nothing in the way of taxes. A lot do work illegally and many are pretty low life. There presence in Thailand will not be missed if they have to leave.

[CrossBones]

Can anyone advise, what is the correct way for a young, unmarried financially secure person - who doesnt work, to stay in Thailand for extended periods legally?

Should we find some kind of volunteer job perhaps? Or study Thai language on a student visa... what are the other possibilities?

Someone is going to suggest flying to Australia and getting a one year visa based on exploring business opportunities in Thailand. However that is do-able but its not really legal!

[lopburi3]

I returned yesterday with my new "double entry" so hopefully am good for the next 6 months, and i have been doing the same for maybe 3 years now.

PLEASE advise me of my future prospects....i receive a disability pension from aus and due to the serious nature of my health i do not have to 'visit" australia at all.

I CANNOT/DONOT work at all and simply aim to live here till i die here! I just scrape by in my 30,000 baht monthly and take care of my long time thai g/f and vica-versa.

I have Absolutely no money for luxuries and live a basic lifestyle. I had a car and a motorcyce initially and have sold a bike to have money on hand for visa runs and living to supplement my pension..I have this and only this to get by on.I have under 60,000 baht in bank and assets of [my car...230,000 baht] so leaves me far short of satisfying the authorities as to long stay visa and the pension itself is well under the required 60,000 plus they require.

Apart from the obvious"UP THE CREEK!!'' what are my options to stay here?

A marriage would open up multi entry non immigrant O visa possibility. Study of Thai would open education extensions of stay for about 30k total expense per year.

[ThaiFelix]

Personally I fail to see the problem. If someone is a genuine tourist they ahve nothing to fear. On the other hand if they are working on tourist visas tnen they only have themselves to blame.

Try pulling the same stunt in the EU, the US or Australia. Anyone caught doing that would be tossed out immediately and possibly be banned from the country for ever. It seems to me that despite all the crackdowns Thailand is still very generous at this stage and lots of people are abusing the system.

Incidentally an Australian I work with recently went to Canada on a tourist visa and she was interrogated for three whole hours. She thinks it may because she was born in Armenia. Who knows but it seems Thailand won't be the only country to interrogate some tourists.

I totally agree, I dont know what all the fuss is about. It's got harder somewhat lately but its still heaps easier than most other countries. I think we have had it too easy and now the noose is tightning we feel something is being taken away...and it makes us feel insecure. It is their country afterall.

[lopburi3]

Hi Everybody,

I have a multi entry non immigrant O and it will be used up in about 3 months. When the article at the start of this thread said" Foreigners living in Thailand are advised to obtain a Non-Immigrant visa, which can be extended up to one year by the Thai Immigration Bureau. " does that mean I can somehow get mine extended? If so, how and where?

I am married to a Thai and have 5 children with her, it is getting too expensive to fly us all back and forth so often so I would like to stay longer. I don't have the 400k (or is it 800k) in a Thai bank and my income from the states is in irregular amounts so I don't think I qualify for a better visa. Any pertinent info is genuinely appreciated, best regards, Lee

If your income tax shows 40k per month average you would qualify - if not you can obtain a multi entry O visa from KL with a bank book of 30-100k (using marriage paperwork) or less. Other Consulates will also issue in the area - no need to return to US if you are married to a Thai.

[oMega69]

After 5yrs of Tourist Visa . , maybe time for ED visa then . . , Then problem solved ! ., ., Iam retired but only 25 yrs old . , Need to w8 for the Non-O visa.,

[sassienie]

About time too. Other countries allow tourists to stay up to 6 months. Anyone that stays beyond this can hardly be called a tourist. I would call them tax dodgers they contribute nothing in the way of taxes. A lot do work illegally and many are pretty low life. There presence in Thailand will not be missed if they have to leave.

EXACTLY.

[loong]

About time too. Other countries allow tourists to stay up to 6 months. Anyone that stays beyond this can hardly be called a tourist. I would call them tax dodgers they contribute nothing in the way of taxes. A lot do work illegally and many are pretty low life. There presence in Thailand will not be missed if they have to leave.

Can you supply the source for these statistics. As far as I know tourism does not have a time limit on it.

Why would a tourist who does not work in Thailand pay taxes, apart from the usual VAT of course? How can they be called tax dodgers if they have no income in Thailand and therefore no tax is due?

I think that very few work and as for being low lifes! Explain why lowlifes are more likely to have a tourist visa than a non immigrant.

From what I read here on this forum the lowlifes are most likely to be 30 day visa exempt tourists.

You are speaking from some sort of prejudice with no basis in fact.

You appear to be another of the many that seem to think that they are better than everybody else.

[CrossBones]

The bottom line is....

There are hardly any Farangs who come to Thailand to work and take money out of the economy, why would you the salary here is terrible. Those that do work here without visas are backpacker types teaching English (valuable service), people exporting various things (valuable to economy), bar owners who usually lose all the money and leave several million baht in the country - they too are providing a valuable service for the economy / tourism. Others might be sick people on pensions and people with enought money to live in Thailand without working - these people also making a contribution to the economy. Many of the Farangs are supporting a wife or girlfriend to some extent, possibly buying condos - again money into the economy. We all pay tax, when we book a flight, buy something in 7-11, but a condo, buy a bottle of beer. Its all tax, money into the economy.

I dont get it.

Edited September 11, 2009 by CrossBones

[hansnl]

is this crack down related to the crackdown on girls wearing too-tight shirts at their pseudo colleges?

so how does one stay if he cant qualify for some visa's, like 200,000 baht or whatever it may take? i am moving to the philippines but rather live in Thailand. i dont want to travel every 30 days.

As much as anything else, this 'Hans Brinker / put a finger in the dike' policy by Thai Imm, is going to dissuade young farang English teachers. To many T.Visaites that may be fine, but the more native English speakers willing to teach English here, the better. Granted, some may not have degrees and/or skills and some may be laggards (or worse), but chances are even the frumpiest farang pseudo teachers will have a better handle on English than many Thais who teach English on a U level. The majority of English speakers teaching English will be good at doing so (whether with degrees or not), and for sure Thai youngsters can use all the help they can get in learning English.

It's been said a hundred times already, but it needs repeating: the Thai standard for English speaking, even among U graduates is dismal. If Thailand wants to remain a backwater tourist destination, that's ok. But if Thailand wants to be a player on the world stage, its level of English comprehension has to improve drastically. Science, business, research, diplomacy, computers, advertising, history, tourism ....all essentially require a good handle on English to be effective.

French used to be the 'diplomatic language,' but now English is the 600 lb gorilla on the world stage. Wake up Thailand.

And not Chinese!

[mortenaa]

As far as I know tourism does not have a time limit on it.

If you settle down somewhere, you are not a tourist anymore.

"A tourists is someone who travels out of their usual environment for less than one year. they travel for liesure, recreation, or business purposes."

Of course it can be longer than 6 months, but most likely it is not. So if you had one double-entry tourist VISA, then get another one, then another one... Are you really a tourist anymore? Would you say that to your friends you hang out with? I think not.

Generally speaking, I think the Thai Government is money hungry, and they know that more people getting legal, setting up businesses etc is going to generate more taxes. I experience this often, as getting tax refunds from the Thai Government is more difficult than robbing a bank

Edited September 11, 2009 by mortenaa

[junkofdavid2]

finally ! was about time. i guess in your "civilized" country you welcome illegal workers with open arms...

That's right! try working illegally in Europe, OZ or the U.S. and see what happens. YOu'll be out on your arse with no hope of returning.

"But this is different." Asians need the 'great white man' to help them.

.

Edited September 11, 2009 by junkofdavid2

[CrossBones]

not illegal[/u] entry and trickery to stay)

It’s not necessary to play games in the USA to get what you want - HOWEVER IN THAILAND IT'S MUCH MUCH DIFFERENT

What you are seeing here is the Thai government officials - who have families that live, work and go to school in the USA – these same government officials continue to send the official messages from their Thailand government offices that "Foreigners’ Are In Thailand Only To Spend Their Money - THEN THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOU TO LEAVE - GET OUT"

This does not take into consideration the foreigners that have been living here - MARRIED - HAVE CHILDREN - A JOB THEY PAY TAXES ON

BUT THEY STILL CANNOT GET CONSISTANT VISA'S FOR THEMSELVES AND ARE ALWAYS IN DANGER OF BEING REFUSED ENTRY THE NEXT TIME THEY LEAVE THE COUNTRY

WHAT SORT OF WAY IS THIS TO LIVE – NO WONDER MANY PEOPOLE ARE LEAVING THAILAND TO LIVE IN PHILIPPINES

I MYSELF HAVE BEEN SCOUTING THE PLACE OUT FOR A PLACE TO LIVE

IF YOU ARE THAI UPPER CLASS OR GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL YOU WILL BENIFIT - WHILE OTHERS WILL SUFFER - THEY SIMPLY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES. They consider themselves the privileged few.

I think other countries such as UK, USA, Canada and others should give Thailand the same sanctions of - LIMITED VISA's - 49% OWNWERSHIP OF COMPANIES - 0.0% NO HOME OWNERSHIP AT ALL (ONLY CONDO) - - SAME SAME they give foreigners’ here in Thailand.

Start sending the Thai's that live abroad in USA, UK, Canada and other countries back home - using the same same policies and VISA applications they propose for us. Start sending the same message to the Thai's living abroad that we are being given here in Thailand - TURNABOUT IS FAIR PLAY - LETS SHOW THEM HOW ITS DONE

Do you really think it will ever happen - NO - because there are Thai's benefiting from this VISA rejection. Simple answer. It will never happen!!

Can you just shut up, this is a forum for visa information. Stop behaving like children

[Wanid]

i'm glad to have a three years non-B!

A 3 Year Visa??? Do you mind sharing some info's? - like: where to apply, what paperwork is required, how much it costs and how long does it take?

Thank you...

[CrossBones]

And why is there a co-owner, if your friends own 100 percent? No way this is possible (to my knowledge). I'd might be wrong but Thais must own 51 percent of company shares at least.

If 51% Thai ownership (or more), its considered a Thai company. If less, then its a foreign company. Foreign companies cannot perform all kinds of business, but its limited to certain types. Export is one thing that allows up to 100% foreign ownership. A Thai company is less hassle, less paperwork, so I recommend that.

Not true:

"A foreigner can form or buy a Thai company, and even be the sole director of it, but Thai citizens must jointly own at least 51% of its shares – meaning a majority is technically under Thai control. Currently it is possible to allocate shares to several unrelated people, who could have no combined effect on the company's business, and this can be arranged by the lawyer, but along with most things connected with business in Thailand, there are considerable risks involved. "

Thats not true, American citizens can own a company outright they have an arrangement with the government.

You can also own an export company.

You can also own a company if you go through the board of investment