Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[coccigelus]

5 hours ago, Thailand J said:

If you transfer >$2000 it is $10, and >$50000 it is $20.

I am going to keep repeating this: From IB send  international wire to BBL BK (SWIFT code BKKBTHBK) , with JPMorgan Chase as intermediary bank ( default on IB) which only charges $2 flat rate. The usual BBL BK receiving fee (500B max ) applies.

Transferring to BBL BK ,Schwab's  intermediary bank is BBL NY, I have not find a way to change it on their website.

I didn't forget your previous recommendation (which was same as above). I will try the international wire next time . 

 

EDIT: no concerning is clear.

 

Thank You.

Edited December 30, 2019 by coccigelus

[coccigelus]

This is how It looks about within IB: 

 

Not sure about Receiving bank's account with correspondent bank number but this was suggested by IB .

[Thailand J]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

My query with IB sent via JPM for $2 was a concern that JPM charged you $2 and made it up by converting it to THB themselves at their rate - the $2 being a seemingly low fee to entice you in. JPM have a reputation proven or unproven for doing just this.

JPMorgan Chase acted as intermediary when i wired from Vanguard and IB, never had they converted the money into THB. I wired in USD and the amount arrived in BBL BK in USD minus $2.

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Thailand J

[Thailand J]

45 minutes ago, coccigelus said:

Not sure about Receiving bank's account with correspondent bank number but this was suggested by IB

I did not pay attention to the account number at the bottom, i assume CHASUS33  plus BKKBTHBK will get my money to Bangkok Bank Bangkok, and  they did ????

[Pib]

5 hours ago, mokwit said:

That part I know and if Schwab uses a bank with a global network you may be Ok but it could be you have no control over what happens with the USD sent and fees/conversion spread. It is for this reason that IB are becoming more transparent because if a correspondent uses a captive customer spread it can be material cost to you. Issues can arise if you use a bank that uses a correspondent bank - you may send as USD but the correspondent bank may convert at an unfavourable rate vs conversion onshore in Thailand.

 

My query with IB sent via JPM for $2 was a concern that JPM charged you $2 and made it up by converting it to THB themselves at their rate - the $2 being a seemingly low fee to entice you in. JPM have a reputation proven or unproven for doing just this.

 

I have been at loggerheads over one test amount of $100 transaction from IB to a HK broker where there was a cost of $14 that was unexplained. The broker couldn't/wouldn't get clarification from their bank HSBC but said they thought the fee was not at their end. Key point if it is a fixed fee of $14 it is not material in this instance, but as I cannot determine whether or not it is a PERCENT fee on total funds I am not sending  a further material amount as if it is % it is a huge gauge.

 

 

Don't worry about the correspondent bank accomplishing the exchange--they will not as long you didn't authorize the sending bank to accomplish the exchange.    

 

But the correspondent may apply a pass thru fee (it happen occasionally)....then you can take that up with your sending bank (IB in your case).  No shortage of ThaiVisa posts over the years where a person's SWIFT transfer arrived Bangkok Bank short $20, $10, $14 (some round amount) and the Sending bank acts clueless about why the amount arrived short.  They usually try to blame it on the receiving bank even when the person tells the sending bank it was not the receiving bank as the receiving bank showed a printout of the amount that arrived their inbox from bank XYZ upstream and the receiving bank's receiving fee was so-in-so like the 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) that most Thai banks use like Bangkok Bank.  Yeap, common for sending bank to act clueless on any correspondent bank fees until you press them hard.  Then they just point out that their fine print does say there may be other fees along the way to the receiving bank.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Pib

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

short $20, $10, $14 (some round amount) and the Sending bank acts clueless about why the amount arrived short. 

A variation on this when sending from Thailand is where you pay SWIFT fee at your end and the sending bank sneakily ticks the box for the SWIFT fee to be deducted by the receiving back and sent back to the sending bank. Double payment and the customer is convinced that it was the receiving bank that deducted the cash - it was, on the instructions in the SWIFT message from the sending bank. Very common in Asia.

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

A variation on this when sending from Thailand is where you pay SWIFT fee at your end and the sending bank sneakily ticks the box for the SWIFT fee to be deducted by the receiving back and sent back to the sending bank. Double payment and the customer is convinced that it was the receiving bank that deducted the cash - it was, on the instructions in the SWIFT message from the sending bank. Very common in Asia.

I don't know about the sending bank sneakily ticking (changing) any boxes but I've sure read enough ThaiVisa posts over the years where the sender did not understand the sending options, clicked the wrong box/selection, and received higher fees/lower exchange that expected---but it was all the sender's fault for not understanding. 

 

One common mistake is the sender selects the "Fees OUR" (or similar wording) which means the sender will cover "all" fees---even the receiving bank fee and any intermediary bank fee.  So, when the Thai bank receive the funds they do not charge their typical receiving fee but instead send a fee back to the sending bank---an fee that is higher than the standard receiving fee due to extra work caused to the receiving bank. This fee might take a month to come back to the sending bank.  But if the sender had selected the "Fees SHA" (or similar wording for Share) the sender would have only paid the sending fee and the receiver is on the hook for intermediary and receiving bank fees.  It all comes down to choices offered the sender.

[mokwit]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

It all comes down to choices offered the sender.

Not always. In the instance described a bank employee confirmed to me that what I described was what had happened and that it was bank policy to do that. I thanked her for being so upfront with me.

[buick]

i've been aware of the pending end (now ended) of the ACH transfer via BKB NYC.  from what i've read, it appears the way for me continue to send money from wells fargo USA to bangkok bank in thailand is to simply use a SWIFT transfer rather than ACH.  i don't make any changes at all to the 'payee' information, it still goes through the BKB NYC branch.  is that correct ?

 

setting up a new 'payee', which would be directly to the bangkok bank branch in bangkok, takes some extra effort when i'm not physically in the USA due to security policies at wells fargo.

 

thanks for any comments.

 

 

[bkk6060]

15 minutes ago, buick said:

i've been aware of the pending end (now ended) of the ACH transfer via BKB NYC.  from what i've read, it appears the way for me continue to send money from wells fargo USA to bangkok bank in thailand is to simply use a SWIFT transfer rather than ACH.  i don't make any changes at all to the 'payee' information, it still goes through the BKB NYC branch.  is that correct ?

 

setting up a new 'payee', which would be directly to the bangkok bank branch in bangkok, takes some extra effort when i'm not physically in the USA due to security policies at wells fargo.

 

thanks for any comments.

 

 

Why not do a wire transfer it is faster.

[Pib]

6 hours ago, buick said:

i've been aware of the pending end (now ended) of the ACH transfer via BKB NYC.  from what i've read, it appears the way for me continue to send money from wells fargo USA to bangkok bank in thailand is to simply use a SWIFT transfer rather than ACH.  i don't make any changes at all to the 'payee' information, it still goes through the BKB NYC branch.  is that correct ?

 

setting up a new 'payee', which would be directly to the bangkok bank branch in bangkok, takes some extra effort when i'm not physically in the USA due to security policies at wells fargo.

 

thanks for any comments.

 

 

You can either do an International Wire which uses the SWIFT system....use Bagnkok Bank SWIFT code of BKKBTHBK along with your acct number in Thailand.

 

Or, do a domestic wire to Bangkok Bank New York using ABA routing number 026008691 (same one you used with using ACH) along with your acct number in Thailand.  Your US bank online form for a domestic wire may have less areas/fields to enter full recipient like the recipient's address but the form should have a Remarks type field where you could enter additional "catch-all" info. 

 

A possibly your US bank domestic wire form may look almost identical to the Int'l Wire form with the exception of one asking for an ABA/ACH code and the other a SWIFT code. 

[buick]

ok, thanks guys.  i thought a 'wire transfer' was done via ACH or SWIFT.  but it sounds like there are three choices (or more !!), ACH, intl SWIFT, and domestic wire transfer.  i've got to top off my bank balance by the end of this month to get back up to the 800,000thb in time for my extension in 4 months time.

[Berkshire]

34 minutes ago, buick said:

ok, thanks guys.  i thought a 'wire transfer' was done via ACH or SWIFT.  but it sounds like there are three choices (or more !!), ACH, intl SWIFT, and domestic wire transfer.  i've got to top off my bank balance by the end of this month to get back up to the 800,000thb in time for my extension in 4 months time.

I think you're still a little confused.  There's really only an ACH (domestic or international) or wire transfer (domestic or international).  A SWIFT code is required for an international transfer.  There's no "SWIFT transfer." 

[Pib]

31 minutes ago, buick said:

ok, thanks guys.  i thought a 'wire transfer' was done via ACH or SWIFT.  but it sounds like there are three choices (or more !!), ACH, intl SWIFT, and domestic wire transfer.  i've got to top off my bank balance by the end of this month to get back up to the 800,000thb in time for my extension in 4 months time.

Don't confuse a "wire" with an ACH transfer, especially if you are talking to a bank rep.....it can result in confusion and misunderstandings.  While a wire and ACH transfer are both done electronically the settlement method, transfer system being used, governing rules, etc., are different.  While you may be thinking a Wire and ACH are both going out of wire, going electronically, etc., so therefore they are the same animal the bank reps understands they are different animals, have different fees...just a bunch of differences.    

 

Int'l Wire use the SWIFT system/codes....Domestic Wires use the Fedwire system which uses ACH/ABA routing numbers, and ACH transfers use the ACH system which uses ACH/ABA rotuing number.  When you are using your US bank ibanking the area to send via ACH or Wire (Domestic or Int'l) will usually be two completely separate areas/menus and will have different rules and limits as to the transfer.

 

Difference between ACH and Wire

https://tipalti.com/ach-vs-wire/

https://www.thebalance.com/ach-vs-wire-transfer-3886077

 

 

[Pib]

SWIFT (Used for international wires)

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050515/how-swift-system-works.asp

 

FedWire (Used for most domestic wires)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedwire

 

ACH (primarily used for domestic transfers, however, ACH does have international transfer capability if the the sender uses ACH "International ACH Transaction (IAT)" formatted transfers and the foreign receiver interfaces with the ACH system....few, if any, US banks use ACH IAT for retail customers)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACH_Network

 

Money Trasnfer Services like Transferwise, well, they use a variety of peer-to-peer, proprietary methods which "interface" with other systems such as ACH....maybe call these services "proprietary hybrid" systems.

 

[Pib]

Also, when it comes to initiating an int'l or domestic wire from your US bank (or credit union, brokerage, etc) don't be surprised if you can not do it as easily as an ACH transfer.   Hopefully your bank does allow online initiated domestic/int'l wires, but some will not....instead you must call/fax or maybe even visit the bank.

 

I have various US bank accounts...I can do an ACH transfers online with all my banks...by online I mean from the comfort of my keyboard.  However, my various banks have different policies when it comes to initiating a wire.  Example: For some I can do it online wire just like an ACH transfer......for some I must call.....for some I can only do an online domestic wire to bank that I already have an ACH transfer link setup for. 

 

Yeap....don't be surprised to run into different rules for a wire in comparison to an ACH transfer....different US banks have different rules when it comes to wires.

 

 

[buick]

thanks for the addtl clarification, i'm getting close to a basic understanding now !! 

[wealthychef]

On 7/29/2018 at 12:44 PM, mackayae said:

Just initiated a transfer with Transferwise. Simple process, just takes 2 minutes. Transfered $1000, fees $10. ETC Tuesday. Deducted from my US checking account. A good alternative to the BBL NY method.

 

I have done the same thing as an experiment.  I did an ACH to Transferwise, which was very quick.  I then did a wire transfer of $20 to my Bangkok Bank account using SWIFT code "BKKBTH BK".  Transferwise.com charged a $2.02 fee, which is 10% because the amount is small.  If the transfer had been $2000, the fee would have been $20, which is 1%, much better.  The stated conversion rate was 31.13 THB/USD.  Today's published rate is 32.13, but Bangkok Bank is right now offering 31.01 as its TT rate, so I'm actually getting a better conversion rate than I used to with direct transfer.  The effective cost is thus less than 1%, so I'm going to use this method.  

Thanks for the ideas people, this saves my bacon.  

The gold standard is still to put $5000 in your suitcase and bring it here, but not by much and for the safety and convenience I'll use Transferwise for now.  

BTW, to do a wire transfer from my credit union would have cost $30.  From CapitalOne, you cannot even do international wire transfers I'm pretty sure.  But since they are a big bank, I'd expect them to screw me hard on fees anyhow. 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by wealthychef

[treetops]

On 2/14/2020 at 3:26 AM, wealthychef said:

The stated conversion rate was 31.13 THB/USD.  Today's published rate is 32.13, . . . .

Published by who?

 

Transferwise claims to always use the interbank rate.

[buick]

On 2/13/2020 at 7:26 PM, wealthychef said:

The stated conversion rate was 31.13 THB/USD.  Today's published rate is 32.13,

i don't think we've seen 32+ yet this year.  something wrong with that number.

[wealthychef]

On 2/15/2020 at 8:57 PM, treetops said:

Published by who?

 

Transferwise claims to always use the interbank rate.

 

I'm not sure about who claims what, but as of right this moment, the TT rate from Bangkok Bank is 31.02.  Transferwise is converting at 31.22.  So they are better than TT.  I'm not sure if TT is the same for every bank.  

 

Bangkok Bank TT rate:  https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/View-Rates/Foreign-Exchange-Rates

 

 

[treetops]

6 hours ago, wealthychef said:

I'm not sure about who claims what, but as of right this moment, the TT rate from Bangkok Bank is 31.02.  Transferwise is converting at 31.22.  So they are better than TT.

I get these two rates and they're much as I would expect, however you also mentioned a third rate in post 1008

Quote

Today's published rate is 32.13

I (and buick in post 1010 it seems) can't work out where that rate comes from.  Can you explain?

[TheAppletons]

4 hours ago, treetops said:

I get these two rates and they're much as I would expect, however you also mentioned a third rate in post 1008

I (and buick in post 1010 it seems) can't work out where that rate comes from.  Can you explain?

It's a typo, obviously.

 

  From that post:

 

  "The stated conversion rate was 31.13 THB/USD.  Today's published rate is 32.13, but Bangkok Bank is right now offering 31.01 as its TT rate....."

 

  It appears he was trying to compare the stated conversion rate to the published rate but mis-typed the published rate.  

[wealthychef]

18 hours ago, treetops said:

I get these two rates and they're much as I would expect, however you also mentioned a third rate in post 1008

I (and buick in post 1010 it seems) can't work out where that rate comes from.  Can you explain?

 

Human error.  

[TGIR]

Don't have any replies yet but Wells Fargo Bank transfers via Bangkok Bank NY will no longer work.  Got my first rejection yesterday for a $6,000 transfer. 

 

If any other Wells Fargo users have problems pm me.  I'm not going to use Transferwise.....I'll just work with Bangkok Bank and do what they want me to do.  Going to do it this afternoon so I'll have the latest info for you.

 

Also IMPORTANT to note as I did last night that in August what we would call FDIC insurance on your Thai bank accounts will be limited severely.  What started out as insurance up to 50 million Baht years ago will now be limited to only one million baht per individual, per bank, in August.  This is a huge and very unfortunate change if you worry at all about the safety of your money in a Thai bank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, TGIR said:

I'm not going to use Transferwise.....I'll just work with Bangkok Bank and do what they want me to do.

Let us know how it goes.  If trying to change ACH format to international have not seen any positive reports from a normal bank account (only government/mutual fund type account).

[skatewash]

24 minutes ago, TGIR said:

Don't have any replies yet but Wells Fargo Bank transfers via Bangkok Bank NY will no longer work.  Got my first rejection yesterday for a $6,000 transfer. 

 

If any other Wells Fargo users have problems pm me.  I'm not going to use Transferwise.....I'll just work with Bangkok Bank and do what they want me to do.  Going to do it this afternoon so I'll have the latest info for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really it's a US Government problem.  It's they who are insisting that ACH transfers that result in money going outside the US (as in the case of Bangkok Bank NY Branch) must use IAT format (which contains information about where the money is going).  Bangkok Bank is merely complying with that requirement.  Most, if not all, US financial institutions do not use IAT format for ACH transfers (unless a business account for payroll or pension purposes).  They are not likely to change, in my opinion.  Time to research other avenues for getting your money to Thailand.  It's not about your complying with Bangkok Bank's requirements, it's about getting your US bank (e.g., Wells Fargo) to comply and that hasn't happened to date.  But worth making the request anyway.  Good luck.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, TGIR said:

.....I'll just work with Bangkok Bank and do what they want me to do.  Going to do it this afternoon so I'll have the latest info for you.

If that means you are going to talk to Bangkok Bank, all Bangkok Bank is going to tell you is you must use ACT IAT, Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT), a money transfer service like Transferwise, or their Thai Baht Remittance method.   And anyone using the expensive and slow Bangkok Bank NY branch Thai Baht Remittance program would have to be desperate in not having any other way to transfer money.  

 

Assuming you are not desperate and since you said you don't want to use Transferwise, you are pretty much left to using a Wire/SWIFT which can be pricey and/or challenging with some US banks.  Although an "International" Wire would typically be used, you could also possibly do a cheaper "Domestic" Wire to the Bangkok Bank NY branch which in turn would automatically relay it to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct just like an ACH transfer.  I say "possibly" because US banks have different policies on how to do domestic and/or international wires.  Sending a domestic wire does work as I did a test late last year from my US credit union...posted to my Bangkok Bank acct next morning/less than 24 hours.

 

[longball53098]

I think I read on here info about setting up a domestic wire from a US bank to BBL New York and using them to transfer to the BBL account in Thailand but I cannot see the info and 68 pages is too much looking for my old eyes. I think the discussion lasted for a few pages about using New York for a domestic wire and some other types of transfers as well.

 

Pib, any help on this ???

[Pib]

3 hours ago, longball53098 said:

I think I read on here info about setting up a domestic wire from a US bank to BBL New York and using them to transfer to the BBL account in Thailand but I cannot see the info and 68 pages is too much looking for my old eyes. I think the discussion lasted for a few pages about using New York for a domestic wire and some other types of transfers as well.

 

Pib, any help on this ???

yeap...you can do that.