Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Skallywag]

Just looking ahead, in case other visa extensions become mandatory (am Non-Imm O also)

Edited October 23, 2019 by Scott

[Lumbini]

 
Do you mean Pib?
 
That was in regard to extension of stay, which is another long story still being sorted out.
 
it had nothing to do with re-entry on a re-entry permit.
 
No IO anywhere that I have seen has suggested a need for insurance entering on a re-entry permit.
 
 A re-entry permit refers to an already granted permission to stay.  Entering in one does not give any additional time.  Your permission to stay period remains exactly  the same as it was. As it is an al;ready granted period of stay new requirements don't come into play.
 
New period of permission to stay is generated by a new entry under a still valid visa, or by an extension of stay.  Pib's discussion with CW imm (which may have yielded wrong info, time will tell) was in reference to a future extension of stay.
 
The Police Order explicitly states that already granted periods of stay are unaffected.
 
 

Thanks for that detailed information Sheryl ....


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[hereforgood]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

I just checked my OA Visa (multi entry) from 2008....it was issued in Aug 2008 and had to be used  by Aug 2009 (i.e., had a  12 month validity period).    I arrived Thailand Oct 2008....been doing annual retirement extensions of stay ever since. 

So this was my Original Visa issued in The states it has been extended in Thailand thru the years as a Non B and a retirement after I stopped working. Based on the police order (if they follow it) I would not be required to provide insurance ?

 

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

include BKK CW Immigration and quite a few of the other Immigration offices around the country.

There are an equal or greater number claiming extensions do not require insurance too. Best to let the dust settle.....

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, hereforgood said:

So this was my Original Visa issued in The states it has been extended in Thailand thru the years as a Non B and a retirement after I stopped working. Based on the police order (if they follow it) I would not be required to provide insurance ?

That is a non-o visa not a OA visa.

No need for insurance. Even old OA visas do not need it in IMO.

[hereforgood]

That is a non-o visa not a OA visa.
No need for insurance. Even old OA visas do not need it in IMO.

Thank you very much for your quick reply Joe greatly appreciate it now we just got to see if they invoke the rules based on the police order :-)

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[Martyp]

34 minutes ago, Pib said:

So, having the most outstanding medical coverage in the world from the government or civilian company does not help; instead, it must be a high price, low coverage policy from one of the approved Thai insurance companies.

Nobody knows for sure but I don’t think you need one of the high price low coverage policies on the government website. They are just policies that meet the minimum requirements. You could buy a higher value policy from one of the Thai companies. My Pacific Cross agent assured me that my 10,000,000 baht policy meets the requirements though I am waiting to see about that. That does not solve the problem of qualifying a foreign policy but it may make considering a Thai policy more palatable.

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, ZPU said:

And not required even for new NON-O Visas either. Good luck Pib.


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I guess you are saying you got the "certificate" by email also....like RRY said.  Both of your always refer to the phone numbers on the Tricare Overseas webpage....I went there....called various numbers and talked to various people about a certificate of coverage.....not to be confused with the letter of enrollment you can easily get. 

 

Each time....they know nothing about a "certificate" of coverage....just the "you are enrolled type letter" a person can easy & quickly get.  I attached a redacted copy....I just download the letter from milConnect.

 

So, please provide the phone number your are calling.  And also, please post a redacted copy of what you received via email to see if what they are really sending you is just the letter like the redacted copy of mine below or an enrollment card available in some cases.  Please give more details what is shown on the "certificate" you received.  Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

13 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Nobody knows for sure but I don’t think you need one of the high price low coverage policies on the government website. They are just policies that meet the minimum requirements. You could buy a higher value policy from one of the Thai companies. My Pacific Cross agent assured me that my 10,000,000 baht policy meets the requirements though I am waiting to see about that. That does not solve the problem of qualifying a foreign policy but it may make considering a Thai policy more palatable.

Do you mind saying what age group you are in and what your current annual premium is with your Bt10M policy to include confirmation your current policy includes outpatient coverage as it seems some folks buy in-patient coverage only policies as adding on outpatient coverage also drives up the policy cost very significantly.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Pib

[Mango Bob]

 

54 minutes ago, Pib said:

Pib

Are you a member of the Tricare in Thailand group on facebook.  If not you should join.  We need good people like you.   

 

 

 

[Pib]

No I'm not....don't even have a Facebook acct.  Only use the wife's Facebook logon (which she rarely uses) every once in a while to fully view a Facebook page without getting that popup asking a person to signup for Facebook.

[Martyp]

43 minutes ago, Pib said:

Do you mind saying what age group you are in and what your current annual premium is with your Bt10M policy to include confirmation your current policy includes outpatient coverage as it seems some folks buy in-patient coverage only policies as adding on outpatient coverage also drives up the policy cost very significantly.

It's the outpatient coverage I'm not sure about but my agent keeps saying my policy is more than enough. That is what I am waiting to see about. I'm not in any immediate need yet. I'm on a yearly extension until Nov 2020 so I waiting to see how this all plays out. I'm 63 years old.

[alan grice]

29 pages of heresay. Ubon Joe must be a Saint not closing the topic down It was answered on page 1.Seems to me anyone who⚖️ posted after that are best gone regardless.!


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[ubonjoe]

Posts done by a banned member and replies to them have been removed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Do you mind saying what age group you are in and what your current annual premium is with your Bt10M policy to include confirmation your current policy includes outpatient coverage as it seems some folks buy in-patient coverage only policies as adding on outpatient coverage also drives up the policy cost very significantly.

 

Pacific Cross policies like the one mentioned above typically include OPD by default. Though Pacific Cross clients do have the option to opt out of OPD in order to obtain a 20% premium discount. But obviously that's not something someone would do when they're in need of O-A insurance certification.

 

I believe Pacific Cross has offered to ADD OPD insurance for existing policy holders who have opted out of OPD for an extra 10,000 baht surcharge. But I'm not aware of them offering any kind of stand-alone OPD policy.

 

As for the certification itself, it seems at this point that there are three different forms of it that clearly will be acceptable at this point.

 

--the Embassy/Consulate's notation of insurance compliance when they make the original O-A visa entry into a passport.

 

--a foreign insurance company-signed certificate of foreign insurance form like the format posted on the TGIA website.

 

--a local certificate issued by one of the participating Thai insurers in the O-A insurance program. Pacific Cross told me yesterday they already have a certificate document they're planning to email to their clients who need them.

 

Whether the Embassies/Consulates and Thai Immigration, either at the airports or at local Immigration offices if this ends up applying to O-A extensions of stay, will be willing to accept misc. foreign insurance documents remains a considerable question.

 

There was some discussion here in the past about folks trying to get the military and the U.S. Embassy involved here on behalf of the retired U.S. military community in Thailand. But whether there's any real push in that direction, and whether it would sway MOPH and Thai Immigration at all, who knows.

 

And of course, there's also the language relating to the O-A insurance requirement that talks about foreign insurance, with the MOPH type certificate, only being acceptable for the FIRST year, and apparently not after that....

 

[Since someone mentioned it above, I'll also note regarding the monthly foreign bank transfers method for extensions of stay that came about in the wake of the US/UK income affidavits dying, Immigration stuck to their guns and pretty much never has accepted any home country financial documentation as proof of those transfers.]

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Martyp said:

Nobody knows for sure but I don’t think you need one of the high price low coverage policies on the government website. They are just policies that meet the minimum requirements. You could buy a higher value policy from one of the Thai companies. My Pacific Cross agent assured me that my 10,000,000 baht policy meets the requirements though I am waiting to see about that. That does not solve the problem of qualifying a foreign policy but it may make considering a Thai policy more palatable.

 

It apparently has to be a policy from one of the 13 companies listed on the site. Pacific Cross is one which is why no problem for you. People with policies from companies other than those listed (or at least underwritten by one of them) have an issue as it appears that TI will only accept certificate from one of these 13.

 

Year 1 (first entry) under a new OA visa is a different matter as foreign policies can be accepted then and it is up to the issuing Embassy or Consulate to decide whether a policy is adequate. While the website has a certificate that foreign insurers are supposed to sign I think it possible that Thai embassies abroad will undnerstand that is not feasible and be willing to review short insurance documents - need to ask the relevant  Embassy if in this situation.

[Sheryl]

As I think most have noticed, there is a serial troll attempting to disrupt this thread and other threads on this topic.

 

If you see such posts please do not reply to them, just hit the report button.

[Mango Bob]

Where is the report button?

 

I found it.  Thank you.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Mango Bob

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Where is the report button?

 Top right hand corner of each post, when you run your mouse over it, next to the small share and post # entries.

 

[KeeTua]

2 hours ago, alan grice said:

29 pages of heresay. Ubon Joe must be a Saint not closing the topic down It was answered on page 1.Seems to me anyone who⚖️ posted after that are best gone regardless.!

Haha, Ubon Joe may be a saint, and his opinion should be respected, but I personally haven't seen him walk on water. I doubt even he would claim that his interpretation is absolutely correct that this order will not be retroactive in some form for Non-O-A visas and extensions of permission to stay.

[LivinLOS]

19 hours ago, nrasmussen said:

At least one thing is clear from the English version: Insurance is needed only when doing an entry using a Non O-A visa issued on or after 2019-10-31. Nowhere does it say say anything else - just pure speculation by people arguing otherwise.

Nowhere may it say otherwise.. However it has been 'said' otherwise by many incountry immigration offices, phone lines, head office, etc.. 

 

Which is right, the letter of the law, or the understanding of that law by immigration remains to be seen. 

[LivinLOS]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

There are an equal or greater number claiming extensions do not require insurance too. Best to let the dust settle.....

Have asked a few times.. Is anyone compiling a list of the offices that say it isnt needed ?? I havent seen many / any firm reports, yet have seen firm clear (for what thats worth) reports from many saying it is. 

 

Trying to gauge 'mood' and thinking more than anything.. 

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

Have asked a few times.. Is anyone compiling a list of the offices that say it isnt needed ?? I havent seen many / any firm reports, yet have seen firm clear (for what thats worth) reports from many saying it is. 

 

Trying to gauge 'mood' and thinking more than anything.. 

 

The same offices have been quoted giving different advise on different days.  Still shaking out.

[Mango Bob]

10 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Have asked a few times.. Is anyone compiling a list of the offices that say it isnt needed ?? I havent seen many / any firm reports, yet have seen firm clear (for what thats worth) reports from many saying it is. 

 

Trying to gauge 'mood' and thinking more than anything.. 

There are so many trolls spamming this topic that it is hard to tell. 

[Jingthing]

53 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

The same offices have been quoted giving different advise on different days.  Still shaking out.

Yes it's way to early to say anything definitive about actual enforcement policies in any office.

It isn't even 31 October yet!

[Sheryl]

A nonsensical post has been removed

[Aforek]

1 hour ago, KeeTua said:

Haha, Ubon Joe may be a saint, and his opinion should be respected, but I personally haven't seen him walk on water. I doubt even he would claim that his interpretation is absolutely correct that this order will not be retroactive in some form for Non-O-A visas and extensions of permission to stay.

Right ! Ubon  Joe is of very good help , for me too, but sadly he is not the one who decides; my immigration , last week, answered me exactly the same thing than Pib: even if my O-A visa is on my old passport, I started in Thailand with it, 9 years ago, and that's what counts because I "have been granted Non immigrant Visa Class O-A "

I can even tell you that two-three times she told me ; " I am sorry, it's not me, it comes from the government "

she understood like this, and Jomtien immigration understood " it's not a new visa, it's an extension of visa" ( which is true ) . 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Right ! Ubon  Joe is of very good help , for me too, but sadly he is not the one who decides; my immigration , last week, answered me exactly the same thing than Pib: even if my O-A visa is on my old passport, I started in Thailand with it, 9 years ago, and that's what counts because I "have been granted Non immigrant Visa Class O-A "

I can even tell you that two-three times she told me ; " I am sorry, it's not me, it comes from the government "

she understood like this, and Jomtien immigration understood " it's not a new visa, it's an extension of visa" ( which is true ) . 

Yes, exactly!

This is something that I've been saying for years.

Interpretations of police orders whether technically "correct" or not and regardless of the sincerity, competence and credibility of the source are one thing.

ACTUAL ENFORCEMENT POLICIES when the rubber meets the road, when you go into your specific immigration office to face a specific immigration officer can be another thing entirely.

It's an unpleasant reality here. 

[Maestro]

21 minutes ago, Aforek said:

...she understood like this, and Jomtien immigration understood " it's not a new visa, it's an extension of visa" ( which is true ) . 

 

Not quite true, ie not quite the correct terminology, but this is par for immigration officials. As the application form TM.7 says, it is in fact an "EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM"

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

Not quite true, ie not quite the correct terminology, but this is par for immigration officials. As the application form TM.7 says, it is in fact an "EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM"

Well OK, but without ever having that base visa for retirement (O or O-A) whether recent or many years old, there would have never been any basis for an extension. Personally I think this hair splitting over terminology on this issue has become tedious and silly. It doesn't change anything either way for how the enforcement of the health insurance requirement turns out.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Jingthing