Chiang Mai splutters: But "Curtain of Water" protects tourists as polluted city continues among world's worst

[Golden Triangle]

7 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Try baking a egg or do anything near the sensor, you will soon see 300+ levels.
You have to look at multiple sensors, as well look at the actual PM levels, not air quality alone. Inside VS Outside (with AC) makes a huge difference already.

My sensor measures HCHO, TVOC, eCO 2 & PM 2.5, all levels are reading low, all doors and windows are open, 3 fans running, and no A/C, that is only used in the bedroom at night ???? 

 

Mind you it is a cheap piece of Chinese plastic papp, so make of that what you will ???? 

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, canthai55 said:

And what - pray tell - is your solution for the air pollution which comes into Thailand from other countries ?

Invasion ? A stern "Don't do that ! "

Most air pollution is invasive from neighboring countries.

There is no simple answer ...

Odd that when you visit the 'neighbouring countries' the air's fine in comparison.

Air pollution .... something no Thai would ever do!

Edited February 19, 2020 by BritManToo

[smedly]

15 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Actually, most first time travellers do not care about it at all, they often do not even know how bad it is. Hanoi is the perfect example for that.
Neither do the Chinese and Indians care as they are used to it back home... Little stimulus to make a effective change.

 

The tourism crisis does not relate to the air pollution, it might relate to retirees and expats or locals but that would be it. 
The high exchange rate and negative events in Thailand do ruin tourism, as well over priced shops and services.

Also funny somehow that the air quality has been bad for a decade during this time,
nobody cared but since everyone got the Greta Syndrome, masks are mandatory and people scream to think they will die.

oh really

 

so is polluted toxic air and wearing a face mask "a thing" people don't care about ?

 

are you serious ?

[Samuel Smith]

16 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

Not wanting to steal Chiang Mai's thunder but I have just checked my AirVisual app on my phone and the reading for Tara Pattana International school ( Pattaya) which is only 500 meters or so from my village is currently 138, strangely, the stand alone machine sitting in my lounge is only reading 33, we are in the middle of the village and away from the road, I have a feeling that the school sensor maybe close to the road which is very busy and there also some Thai food stalls not far away so plenty of pollutants in the area.

Your machine is probably giving the pm2.5 concentration.  Airvisual app shows AQI.  Not the same.  Some of the chinese sensors people buy also show aqi, but don't use the international standard conversion.

[ChaiyaTH]

5 minutes ago, smedly said:

oh really

 

so is polluted toxic air and wearing a face mask "a thing" people don't care about ?

 

are you serious ?

Yes I am serious and speaking the truth. Nobody ever cared until last year was the first time with big big news. 
Tourists care even less as they only visit for X days or a week, Chinese and Indians are used to it.

Hanoi is bad almost any day of the year yet it is booming with tourists, didn't see anyone wearing masks for that except locals.
It is simply a Greta syndrome to now all panic and complain, even that is justified, doesn't change what I said.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[smedly]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Chinese and Indians are used to it.

that might be true - from one dirty polluted dump to another

[ChaiyaTH]

5 minutes ago, smedly said:

that might be true - from one dirty polluted dump to another

I personally used to live in BKK first and most years in TH and always visited CM for a few days at the time, weekends often too. 
I never really knew how bad it was neither cared or checked it at all. I can imagine the same for tourists.

Similar to BKK government crying when it happens in BKK but not seeming to be aware of CM.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Fore Man]

I’ve been here 16 years and don’t recall complaining or worrying over poor air quality until around 2016.  Then we experienced total AQI readings that never seemed to rise higher than 150 in Mae Rim and only for March and April. The rest of the year was generally filled with decent air, at least not bad enough to fret over.  In early March 2019 I started experiencing what most would call a ‘frog in my throat’...a raspiness and always coughing up small amounts of phlegm, accompanied by a continual post nasal drip.  Saw a cardiopulmonary specialist and he did a CT scan of my lungs, finding a slightly thickened bronchial wall and some other minor anomalies.  Six months later this scan was repeated and although the bronchial thickening was still visible, it hadn’t worsened and the earlier anomalies were no longer visible. But yet here it is 11 months later and I still have this constant hacking cough that I cannot shake. I’m assuming it’s a reaction to the terrible smog and haze caused by the onslaught of agriculture burning coupled with Chiang Mai’s steadily expanding size and poorly managed growth.  
 

The real root of the problem is that the typical Thai hasn’t received a proper education in the sciences to know any better of the dangers being wrought by a self-absorbed and seemingly uncaring government.  This is understandable and regrettable with lower working class Thais, but profoundly disappointing in those who ought to know better with professional degrees who should realize that the health of everyone is at significant risk. The knee-jerk, head-in-the-sand response by Thai government officials is utterly appalling, when one sees stupid reactions such as operating large water cannons to combat pollution, instead of invoking strong preventive measures including deploying the Army and police into the area to incarcerate anyone caught burning.  Until the authorities put some real teeth into the battle for clean air, the Northern region and its populace are doomed in exactly the same manner as a death row prisoner: with no hope and no way out.  Thailand’s frightening shortsightedness will be the bane of everyone living in this once- charming area. 

[Samuel Smith]

4 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

I’ve been here 16 years and don’t recall complaining or worrying over poor air quality until around 2016.  

TV members, including myself, have been complaining about smoke pollution for years in the Chiang Mai forum.  

[ChaiyaTH]

6 minutes ago, Fore Man said:

when one sees stupid reactions such as operating large water cannons to combat pollution, instead of invoking strong preventive measures including deploying the Army and police into the area to incarcerate anyone caught burning.  

Hehe true that, there is helicopters flying for no good reason all day around CM, let them use those to photograph burners or drop water on fires instead.
Now you pass the ping bridge and get a free spray dose of dirty water that could also make you sick.

[Tarteso]

Like every years,  I rented a house in the south, leaving my house in Chiang Mai until the rainy days arrive and these crazy people stop to burn their own land, but this time it was different, the Doctor gave me serious advice. I will come back in may.
 

See you later, Chiang Mai ! 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Tarteso

[Cake Monster]

4 hours ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Well at least someone is telling fibs about Pak Kret's / Chaeng Wattana's air today. I know it is not Chaing Mai, but I thought it was worth noting the vast differences in readings.

 

The official PM 2.5 readings as posted by the Pluakdaeng ( close to Sattahip ) District Health Office since the new Year have been higher than these readings every day.

Many days the reading is close to 150 or more

[Cake Monster]

" Curtain of Water "

Is that the same as P*****g into the wind.

[Caldera]

The "curtain of water" is right up there with using ship propellers to speed up draining flooded rivers.

 

Never a shortage of mind boggling nonsense!

 

[legend49]

1 hour ago, chaila said:

 

Little mr P suppose to have fixed it last years same time within 7 days using article 44. Maybe not enough water blowers?  All 100% under control, lol.

[BritManToo]

45 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

TV members, including myself, have been complaining about smoke pollution for years in the Chiang Mai forum.  

It didn't seem important before 2019 as it was only March that was bad.

But now it starts in December and lasts until April.

 

One month of poor air I can stand, but not 5 months.

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

To combat the pollution and make matters better for tourists and residents the media said that fountains were in operation on all four sides of the moat in the inner city area.

 

These were creating a "curtain" of water vapor to alleviate the problem, they said.

Always the cheap fix... never the permanent solution!

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Actually, most first time travellers do not care about it at all, they often do not even know how bad it is. Hanoi is the perfect example for that.
Neither do the Chinese and Indians care as they are used to it back home... Little stimulus to make a effective change.

 

The tourism crisis does not relate to the air pollution, it might relate to retirees and expats or locals but that would be it. 
The high exchange rate and negative events in Thailand do ruin tourism, as well over priced shops and services.

Also funny somehow that the air quality has been bad for a decade during this time,
nobody cared but since everyone got the Greta Syndrome, masks are mandatory and people scream to think they will die.

That is completely incorrect.

 

First time travellers absolutely recognize what a polluted boghole it is.

 

That is why they post on the internet "It's a complete boghole!" and never come back.

 

Get a grip.

[jak2002003]

6 hours ago, Maverell said:

Really - the fountains will alleviate the problem? They really do think the people are stupid.

I think 'they', not the people, are the stupid ones for coming up with these idiotic ideas.  

5 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Apps and fountains, is that the best they can come up with,

it's not like a natural disaster that you have no idea is going

to occur,this happens every year at this time.

 

Doing next to nothing in the City is not going to help one jot,

the Soldiers,Police, any volunteers need to get up in the  hills

and forests and PREVENT fires starting,let the villagers up there know

that setting fires is to be no longer tolerated,anyone caught setting

fires is an ARSONIST and should  be given a prison sentence,as they effect

the health and jobs of many  others. once again it's too little, too late. !

regards Worgeordie

But, that requires work, planning and effort.... so it's a no no!  

5 hours ago, canthai55 said:

And what - pray tell - is your solution for the air pollution which comes into Thailand from other countries ?

Invasion ? A stern "Don't do that ! "

Most air pollution is invasive from neighboring countries.

There is no simple answer ...

Really?  Have you even been to CM and travelled around the countryside, and mountains this time of year?

 

If you did you would see huge areas of forest, entire sides of mountains all on fire.  Late at night you sky is lit up red with by the massive fires.  The areas that are not on fire are only so because they have already been burnt... the ground is black, no plants left, just black rocks and dirty and blackened teak tree trunks.  

 

Then when you come back down to the villages you will see 99 percent of the rice fields have been set alight, together with piles of cleared land, garden waste, plastic waste and rubbish fly tipping dumps.

 

I would argue that some of the pollution comes form neighbouring countries sure, but its easy to see that stopping this burning here will make a drastic improvement on the air quality.  

 

 

[ragpicker]

5 hours ago, Lungstib said:

I chose Chiang Mai as a place to live 32 years ago when it was little more than a big country village with no major highways and little traffic. Todays city is almost unrecognisable in size and content. The transformation has taken place in an unplanned and unregulated rush of a type unknown to most western countries. Massive amounts of construction, the movement of sand, soil and cement in uncontrolled ways, the introduction of highways always under 'improvement' meaning the cars are disturbing dust at all times, and all in a valley surrounded by hills. You cant add a million cars, thousands of houses, hundreds of condo's and shopping venues in 30 years without making a mess, which is of course exactly what we have.

  My thoughts exactly Lungstib.  I too would have moved to Chiang Mai some 32 years ago had there been an airport.  It was a beautiful small town back then.  Now it is a mini Bangkok.  Unfortunately I moved from Bangkok to Pattaya which was also nice 32 years ago.  Pattaya has also turned into a crowded, polluted dump that gets worse every day.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ragpicker

[Samuel Smith]

10 minutes ago, ragpicker said:

  My thoughts exactly Lungstib.  I too would have moved to Chiang Mai some 32 years ago had there been an airport.  

No airport 32 years ago?  Are you on drugs?

[saengd]

18 minutes ago, ragpicker said:

  My thoughts exactly Lungstib.  I too would have moved to Chiang Mai some 32 years ago had there been an airport.  It was a beautiful small town back then.  Now it is a mini Bangkok.  Unfortunately I moved from Bangkok to Pattaya which was also nice 32 years ago.  Pattaya has also turned into a crowded, polluted dump that gets worse every day.

CM airport was built in 1921 although I don't know when they started operating regular commercial air traffic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai_International_Airport

Edited February 19, 2020 by saengd

[toofarnorth]

2 hours ago, orang37 said:

After urinating on self, during a safe intermission, take the Depends diapers Gonzo suggested you use, and hang them in front of a fan. You'll need to sit the fan in some kind of tray to catch excess run-off.

 

Do not urinate directly into the running fan unless it is steam-powered, or foot-pedal operated !

 

@TooFarNorth Do you have any evidence a urine-soaked diaper worn on the head filers 2.5 micron particles ?

 

~o:37;

My wife says the pants on head do work but she can only manage 1 good soak a day .  When I saw the pants in situ I wet myself but I am not wearing them on my head , no need to look silly.

[Benmart]

7 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Apps and fountains, is that the best they can come up with,

it's not like a natural disaster that you have no idea is going

to occur,this happens every year at this time.

 

Doing next to nothing in the City is not going to help one jot,

the Soldiers,Police, any volunteers need to get up in the  hills

and forests and PREVENT fires starting,let the villagers up there know

that setting fires is to be no longer tolerated,anyone caught setting

fires is an ARSONIST and should  be given a prison sentence,as they effect

the health and jobs of many  others. once again it's too little, too late. !

regards Worgeordie

As drastic as it sounds, this is what it may take. Too bad the backward thinking "leaders" will sit back and rely in water fountains and other rediculous dreams.

[Bassosa]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

That is completely incorrect.

 

First time travellers absolutely recognize what a polluted boghole it is.

 

That is why they post on the internet "It's a complete boghole!" and never come back.

 

Get a grip.

Exactly. Chiang Mai's air problems are discussed in depth in various forums in my native country. People are not coming because of the poor air, plain and simple.

[joecoolfrog]

7 hours ago, canthai55 said:

And what - pray tell - is your solution for the air pollution which comes into Thailand from other countries ?

Invasion ? A stern "Don't do that ! "

Most air pollution is invasive from neighboring countries.

There is no simple answer ...

What you say is correct but also a deflection. The Thai authorities can clamp down on the areas they have control over , have they ?

[Samuel Smith]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It didn't seem important before 2019 as it was only March that was bad.

But now it starts in December and lasts until April.

 

One month of poor air I can stand, but not 5 months.

Disagree with that.  Last year was the first year the pm figures went sky high, but always been a problem for at least 3 months of the year.  It's only in the last 2 or 3 years that pm2.5 sensors became common place.   Now we have unhealthy air for 7 months of the year.

[ragpicker]

2 hours ago, Samuel Smith said:

No airport 32 years ago?  Are you on drugs?

I should have included the term "International" airport

[emptypockets]

8 hours ago, Tracyb said:

I just laughed so hard that I peed my pants.

So did I when I saw the photo of the walking fashion statement. Do people really dress like that in CM?

It could be worth braving the pollution just to see it for real.

Edited February 19, 2020 by emptypockets

[emptypockets]

8 hours ago, Lungstib said:

I chose Chiang Mai as a place to live 32 years ago when it was little more than a big country village with no major highways and little traffic. Todays city is almost unrecognisable in size and content. The transformation has taken place in an unplanned and unregulated rush of a type unknown to most western countries. Massive amounts of construction, the movement of sand, soil and cement in uncontrolled ways, the introduction of highways always under 'improvement' meaning the cars are disturbing dust at all times, and all in a valley surrounded by hills. You cant add a million cars, thousands of houses, hundreds of condo's and shopping venues in 30 years without making a mess, which is of course exactly what we have.

You and the people that followed you are part of the problem.