54 Covid-19 deaths compared to 26,000 road deaths

[rooster59]

54 Covid-19 deaths compared to 26,000 road deaths

by Brian Hull, long-term expat

 

 

From time-to-time The Thaiger adds some different perspectives from guest posts. Expat Brian Hull gave us permission to repost his social media rant about the road deaths in Thailand, comparing them with the death toll from the Covid-19 outbreak.

 

Thailand, with a population of 67 million, has done a good job to date in keeping Covid-19 deaths to just 54. This begs the question of why nothing serious is ever done to tackle the annual road carnage of 26,000 deaths, which gives Thailand the distinction of being in the top six of the worst countries in the world.

 

Every accident is a tragedy but the biggest tragedy of all is that most of these could be prevented with proper police control.

 

I don’t know where the buck stops in the Thai bureaucratic blame game but it should be obvious to even a blind man where it starts – with the traffic police who are noted by their absence from the roads.

 

During six years of living in Thailand, not once have I seen a motor bike cop or police car stop anybody for anything. Their activities are confined to roadside checks for motorbike helmets and drivers’ licenses. While it is laudable, it does not require trained policemen to perform this function, it could be done by retired school teachers or librarians, and does nothing whatsoever to reduce road accidents.

 

For years, I have expressed my frustration, and fumed about Thailand not having proper road rules but to my surprise, when I did a test for a Thai Driver’s License, I discovered that sensible traffic regulations, similar to those in the West, are in place. The problem is that they are not enforced.

 

Read more: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/54-covid-19-deaths-compared-to-26000-road-deaths

 

-- © Copyright The Thaiger 2020-05-02

 

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[scubascuba3]

It's a good slant on the road accident toll vs Corona toll, saying take more measures for road deaths rather than reduce the measures for Corona deaths. The government's around the world have lost their heads over the Corona measures i e. stop it under any circumstances including millions losing jobs and lives

Edited May 2, 2020 by scubascuba3

[MJKT2014]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

The government's around the world have lost their heads over the Corona measures

Road deaths policing is spot on, but road driving idiocy isn't contagious like corona so needs a different approach and comparing the two seems pointless.

[NCC1701A]

be careful what you wish for

[Assurancetourix]

26 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

but to my surprise, when I did a test for a Thai Driver’s License, I discovered that sensible traffic regulations, similar to those in the West, are in place. The problem is that they are not enforced.

 

In fact it was Brian Hull who wrote this and he summed it up perfectly.

why are they not enforced?
This is what the Thai government must address.

Why is the Thai police so ineffective on the road when they are very efficient in many other areas?

[scubascuba3]

25 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

Road deaths policing is spot on, but road driving idiocy isn't contagious like corona so needs a different approach and comparing the two seems pointless.

I don't buy the it's not contagious argument for saying you can't compare. Deaths are deaths,  50+ vs 20,000+, Corona just doesn't spread as fast in Thailand

[2 is 1]

When you see Thai traffic police outside if dark or if rain? NEVER! Thailand have many strict laws but huge issue is that you can haddle almost all whit money! Even if you are drunk and kill somebody in traffic you pay family and police sht done! That is not how that should go!

And only if watch vehicle what is on road OMG! Own make Kubota, really sht semi-trailer, cars whit out light whit sht tyres, minors whit scooters so on...so on....

Mai pen rai nobody do nothing!

Edited May 2, 2020 by 2 is 1

[FarFlungFalang]

Yeah but it's not the flu!

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Assurancetourix said:

 

In fact it was Brian Hull who wrote this and he summed it up perfectly.

why are they not enforced?
This is what the Thai government must address.

Why is the Thai police so ineffective on the road when they are very efficient in many other areas?

It requires training and a professional approach and above all - a lot of money

 

I have often likened Thai police to Traffic wardens in the UK 

 

The Thai police would rather write a ticket than actually prosecute someone for a moving traffic offence which would involve a lot more - involvement of courts, taking statements and presenting evidence etc....................proper policing

 

There are also some minor traffic law amendments that would improve things greatly but again it comes down to enforcement.

 

Road planning and even signage and markings play a part too but again involves a big budget to support such things 

Edited May 2, 2020 by smedly

[Assurancetourix]

6 minutes ago, smedly said:

It requires training and a professional approach and above all - a lot of money

I asked a question

 

" why are they not enforced? "

 

to which I know the answers.
I have never been a police officer in my country but I have worked with them for many years as IDSR (Inspector Departemental de Securite Routiere);
you can be a trucker, even internationally and scrupulously respect the Highway Code in the different countries where you go.

 

The answers are multiple;
it obviously requires a lot of money as you point out but not that.
it first requires a police force which knows its trade which is absolutely not the case in Thailand.
the police here know nothing about the Highway Code;
and even if the police knew the Highway Code well it would not be enough;
there must also be exemplary justice which deals only with Laws and Regulations and not whether the offender is a "do you know who I am"
In fact you have to review everything;

to put tens of thousands of police officers and judges out of work, "you are all fired"

and replace them with people who first took courses in Highway Code and Law and who will have to be unassailable all their lives, incorruptible.

 

Suffice to say that it will never happen in Thailand.

We can debate for pages and pages on this forum, nothing will ever change.

[smedly]

18 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

Suffice to say that it will never happen in Thailand.

should - could - won't

 

we all have a reasonable idea of what "should" happen here concerning many things 

 

they "could" happen if Thailand had leaders with an interest on doing so - Other Asian countries managed it

 

it "won't" happen unless there is massive change to who holds the power

[brucegoniners]

Amen brother!

[AnimalsTheyAre]

yeah, take a look at the 'Bad driving in Thailand' group in Facebook. Lot's of videos every day.

 

[xtrnuno41]

O well sometimes they are enforced when you are farang.

In Chiangmai i saw a thai crossing a road. I came upon that same section and saw it was forbidden.

However i did the same and immediately i had motor police officer on my tail.

First he said we had to go to police station for a fine, then stopped in an alley and i could pay him !

So he had been waiting for that moment, the thai passed and i got a fine for the same thing.

Some days later, by coincidence i saw him picking up another farang, the farang wasnt wearing a helmet (i guess)

and drove into the same alley, probably for same fine of 500 baht, for helmet.

Easy money for the police officer again.

Thai arent bothered in normal ways. Only when police are in special actions, then they have too.

You could force the officers to have 100 fines/month on Thai people, that would be working, as they HAVE to show it. If not then a cutdown in salary.  

Here with police it s also in their job descriptions. When they pick you here, they try to find as many possible violations, so you can have several fines at one time.

[Tchooptip]

Maybe some people should stop drooling. there is not a single day someone feels compelled to compare the corona virus with the dead on the road!

 OK we all know, but no matter some start it over and over again, in case it would not have been recorded by one or two pathologically distracted ????
 
 

[Mavideol]

8 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Yeah but it's not the flu!

and unfortunately they keep comparing apples and oranges, the virus it's an infectious disease it can and will infect anybody and everybody, as off now has no cure, the road deaths are not a disease, not infectious, they caused, unfortunately,  by many different reasons, including but not exclusively drunk driving, over speeding/poor driving skills, bad road conditions, bad weather conditions, tired/lack of rest/lack of sleep and mainly due to Brake Failure....it could somehow be reduced (not completely cured) if the police did their job by enforcing traffic laws

Edited May 2, 2020 by Mavideol

[Ryan754326]

5 hours ago, Mavideol said:

and unfortunately they keep comparing apples and oranges, the virus it's an infectious disease it can and will infect anybody and everybody, as off now has no cure, the road deaths are not a disease, not infectious, they caused, unfortunately,  by many different reasons, including but not exclusively drunk driving, over speeding/poor driving skills, bad road conditions, bad weather conditions, tired/lack of rest/lack of sleep and mainly due to Brake Failure....it could somehow be reduced (not completely cured) if the police did their job by enforcing traffic laws

Traffic accidents might not be contagious, but everyone who drives is at risk of getting into one, and we know that this risk could be significantly mitigated by outlawing private vehicles, especially motorcycles, and making everyone ride a bus instead. We don’t do this because we know that the world would cease to function properly if we did. 
 

The big headline I keep seeing lately is that Covid19 has now killed more Americans than the Vietnam war. Why is that a fair comparison, but traffic deaths is not?

Edited May 2, 2020 by Ryan754326

[teatime101]

14 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

50+ vs 20,000

It could be a lot higher without lockdown/social distancing measures. That's why it's a bit pointless to compare them. Road accident figures in Thailand is a horror story, no question. At least the lockdown has cut road deaths, hey.

[teatime101]

19 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

The big headline I keep seeing lately is that Covid19 has now killed more Americans than the Vietnam war. Why is that a fair comparison, but traffic deaths is not?

They're different. The USA has a shockingly high rate of deaths from covid19. The comparison is a way of dramatising that. Comparing covid deaths to road deaths in Thailand serves no useful purpose, except to highlight how shocking those numbers are, which we already know.

Edited May 2, 2020 by teatime101

[White Christmas13]

15 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

They're different. The USA has a shockingly high rate of deaths from covid19. The comparison is a way of dramatising that. Comparing covid deaths to road deaths in Thailand serves no useful purpose, except to highlight how shocking those numbers are, which we already know.

correct one can not compare Thailand's maniac drivers.

[connda]

Using the logic of imposing martial law in order to "Save Lives", then Thailand should extent those laws and ban all driving until road deaths drop below Covid-19 deaths.

[White Christmas13]

6 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

O well sometimes they are enforced when you are farang.

In Chiangmai i saw a thai crossing a road. I came upon that same section and saw it was forbidden.

However i did the same and immediately i had motor police officer on my tail.

First he said we had to go to police station for a fine, then stopped in an alley and i could pay him !

So he had been waiting for that moment, the thai passed and i got a fine for the same thing.

Some days later, by coincidence i saw him picking up another farang, the farang wasnt wearing a helmet (i guess)

and drove into the same alley, probably for same fine of 500 baht, for helmet.

Easy money for the police officer again.

Thai arent bothered in normal ways. Only when police are in special actions, then they have too.

You could force the officers to have 100 fines/month on Thai people, that would be working, as they HAVE to show it. If not then a cutdown in salary.  

Here with police it s also in their job descriptions. When they pick you here, they try to find as many possible violations, so you can have several fines at one time.

yeah I don't know how they get away with collecting tea money, I live what you call the nanny state

(after living many years in LOS) Every body and I mean every body gets fined the same.

no matter what color you are or nationalities. If the officer offers you to pay a fine in cash

you can sue him (or her) for corruption. I understand the cops are not paid very well i fantasy land.

A cop over here gets paid 60.000 AUD on average but they do really work for it and don't sit 

in police boxes (which we don't have here) So it all comes down to the embedded corruption

in fantasy land.And after my rant I will get hundreds of Thai apologists to bombard me. 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

O well sometimes they are enforced when you are farang.

In Chiangmai i saw a thai crossing a road. I came upon that same section and saw it was forbidden.

However i did the same and immediately i had motor police officer on my tail.

First he said we had to go to police station for a fine, then stopped in an alley and i could pay him !

So he had been waiting for that moment, the thai passed and i got a fine for the same thing.

Some days later, by coincidence i saw him picking up another farang, the farang wasnt wearing a helmet (i guess)

and drove into the same alley, probably for same fine of 500 baht, for helmet.

Easy money for the police officer again.

Thai arent bothered in normal ways. Only when police are in special actions, then they have too.

You could force the officers to have 100 fines/month on Thai people, that would be working, as they HAVE to show it. If not then a cutdown in salary.  

Here with police it s also in their job descriptions. When they pick you here, they try to find as many possible violations, so you can have several fines at one time.

 

I think you touched on the main reasons the Thai Police are ineffective at mitigating the road death toll in Thailand.

 

First, I don't subscribe to the paranoia that Westerners are targeted throughout the nation, I've been ignored of waved through too many check points (on motorcycle and in a car) to recognise that for the most part in most areas the BiB are uninterested in foreigners in Thailand. This statement of course has to come with the caveat 'for the most part' and 'in most areas' is there are area's where it seems Westerners are specifically are specifically targeted, it would seem that Pattaya is such an area.

 

We also have to be careful of those westerners who are stopped for commuting some minor infraction, are treated with equal indifference to that which Thai's are treated by the BiB yet claim racism and being targeted etc, in such cases the confirmation bias usually outlines a more genuine issue that the BiB are there to capitalise and profit from the mistakes of motorists. I think this is so nationwide and here begins the flaw in a police system the consequences of which is one of the highest road fatality stats in the world.

 

When simplified the reasons are fairly simple: the BiB are poorly trained, poorly paid and want to supplement their income in the simplest manner possible while maintaining the strict hierarchy of the police force.

 

Thailand's road laws are reasonable and similar to that of many nations, the enforcement of the road laws is shambolic.

There are flaws in using Thailand's road fatality stats in comparison with the Covid-19 global response of which Thailand had little choice but to comply and go along with - Yet the statistics themselves [of Thailand's Road fatality statistics] are so overwhelmingly damming when compared to the Covid-19 statistics that elephant in the room can surely no longer be ignored - to do so can only ever highlight that those in positions of decision making power do not care

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Venom]

22 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Their activities are confined to roadside checks for motorbike helmets and drivers’ licenses

This is a totally false statement. Easily disproven at the begining and ending of every school day.  At the road blocks they merely check registration and and collect money under the table for over laden pickup trucks that you find blocking the passing lane along with vehicle searches. 

[ChipButty]

Will be interesting to see if there is a spike in RTA;s this month

[Ryan754326]

On 5/2/2020 at 11:35 PM, teatime101 said:

They're different. The USA has a shockingly high rate of deaths from covid19. The comparison is a way of dramatising that. Comparing covid deaths to road deaths in Thailand serves no useful purpose, except to highlight how shocking those numbers are, which we already know.

The rate of death in the USA is not that shockingly high when you compare the deaths, as a proportion of the population, to many European countries. A lot of American states are doing far better than whole countries who have similar sized populations. Canada vs California, for example. 
You are right though, that the comparison between Covid19 and the Vietnam war is a way of dramatizing it. There have been many years in which more Americans have died from the seasonal flu than were killed in Vietnam, but I’ve never heard that statistic mentioned in the news before.

In my mind, the useful purpose of comparing traffic deaths to Covid19 is that it gives an opposing perspective to comparing with something like the Vietnam war; that there are many other things which we choose to do every day that are more likely to kill us. That’s just my opinion though, and I’ve resigned to the fact that I will not convince those who think this virus would have killed tens of millions by now without the lockdowns, no matter how wrong those projections have been shown to be. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Ryan754326

[bodga]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:50 AM, Assurancetourix said:

nothing will ever change.

Everything changes.