33 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

In Hong Kong and Japan a tiny minority of people wore a mask before the virus. You know which minority? The sick. Healthy people, very logically and sensibly, did NOT wear masks as a rule.

 

The sick can, and should, continue to wear a mask.

 

What will be on the way out soon is the HEALTHY being forced to wear masks. Because it makes no sense. Hong Kongers and Japanese saw it before the virus, hopefully you can too. Only the sick wore masks.

You will never get it.....I feel sorry that things in life are so tough to accept for those few that want to do only as they please and screw everyone else.  Those types of people are never happy with life as it is.  A sphere of influence is the only thing an individual can ever try to control.....

23 minutes ago, Stoker58 said:

Sad to see so many Karens on this thread defending the forced use of slave masks. This is not a Thai issue, it’s happening all over the western world. Fair play to this man for standing up for his rights.

What rights, folk must wear a mask in markets because safe distancing is near impossible, so tell me why this bloke should be different....?

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

You will never get it.....I feel sorry that things in life are so tough to accept for those few that want to do only as they please and screw everyone else.  Those types of people are never happy with life as it is.  A sphere of influence is the only thing an individual can ever try to control.....

I bet condoms are a no-no for him, and others, too....???? 

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You will never get it.....I feel sorry that things in life are so tough to accept for those few that want to do only as they please and screw everyone else.  Those types of people are never happy with life as it is.  A sphere of influence is the only thing an individual can ever try to control.....

No, clearly you're not getting it, you're trying to argue that Asians wore masks all the time.

 

What you don't get it is that only the sick wore masks. Never the healthy.

 

And you don't seem to get that the healthy being forced to wear masks is going to be abandoned very soon. Just like lockdowns are already being abandoned.

 

Because the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense. The Hong Kongers and Japanese knew it before the virus, only the sick wore masks. Not the healthy.

 

I feel sorry for you that you don't seem to comprehend the simple fact that the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense at all.

 

 

Putting aside the exceptions or rules set by health authorities or governments

 

There appears to be a consensus that if you are sick you should wear a mask. Based on the fact that a proportion of carriers don't know their sick then logically if you have any sense of moral responsibility to others, should you not also adhere to wearing a mask?

 

It only takes one asymptomatic carrier to create a super spreader event in a high risk area infecting potentially hundreds of people and leading to the deaths of a few before its traced and hammered.

 

 

If his response is ' thinking like a Thai ', then i support him for standing up for himself and expressing his rights, good to see ????

Endangering others? this is FEAR speaking here

Thailand has experienced 3000 infections of which their are only 57 deaths and of which 95 % will have had co-morbidities?? anybody actually have these details? would welcome the facts

So what about the actually supporting

a) elderly

b) people with medical issues

Quarantine and support these folk

and allow healthy people to let the virus propogate as viruses do every year

Rather than enslaving ALL people and propagating FEAR, that turn people against each other., as is clear by the thread ...

We know mr Lockdown predictions were wrong

Might the lockdown measures also be wrong?

NO FEAR ????

 

 

31 minutes ago, Stoker58 said:

Sad to see so many Karens on this thread defending the forced use of slave masks. This is not a Thai issue, it’s happening all over the western world. Fair play to this man for standing up for his rights.

Rights are one thing @Stoker58 but when a rule or edict is put in place the rules need to be followed.  Private businesses have always been able to refuse service to a customer.  It use to be posted on the doors of many establishments in the US "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" as well as posted near the cashier.  Rights only go so far.  The only way to change the rules is to become a member of the government and establish the rules yourself.  However, here in Thailand the Government has put these rules in play as well as provincial Governors or Phu Yai's within their villages. You either follow the rules or you are free to go somewhere else as a foreigner.  Thai's have never been good at following rules, as since childhood they are left to do as they please with no one ever telling them "No" or "You are Wrong", it is a part of FACE, and no one wants to be embarrassed, instead it creates conflict further down the road as they grow up, and or crimes occur because of not knowing the difference between right and wrong....

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No, clearly you're not getting it, you're trying to argue that Asians wore masks all the time.

 

What you don't get it is that only the sick wore masks. Never the healthy.

 

And you don't seem to get that the healthy being forced to wear masks is going to be abandoned very soon. Just like lockdowns are already being abandoned.

 

Because the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense. The Hong Kongers and Japanese knew it before the virus, only the sick wore masks. Not the healthy.

 

I feel sorry for you that you don't seem to comprehend the simple fact that the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense at all.

 

 

More assumptions.....

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Putting aside the exceptions or rules set by health authorities or governments

 

There appears to be a consensus that if you are sick you should wear a mask. Based on the fact that a proportion of carriers don't know their sick then logically if you have any sense of moral responsibility to others, should you not also adhere to wearing a mask?

 

It only takes one asymptomatic carrier to create a super spreader event in a high risk area infecting potentially hundreds of people and leading to the deaths of a few before its traced and hammered.

 

 

Any measure has to conform with the principle of proportionality.

 

If it is indeed the case that only 0.8% of people have the virus, and 50% of them are asymptomatic that leaves you with 0.4% of the population. That's not even accounting for the fact that some people have the virus but can not transmit the disease, which Singapore research now shows is the norm for those who have gone through the disease. They have the virus still, but are not contagious.

 

This leaves you with a very small number of people, a tiny, exceedingly miniscule number, of people who are asymptomatic carriers from whom you could conceivably catch the virus.

 

Therefore forcing the entire population to wear masks, which in themselves would appear to do nothing or very little anyway to affect any pandemic, is not a measure that conforms with the proportionality principle.

 

The risk is just too small to justify such a major measure.

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No, clearly you're not getting it, you're trying to argue that Asians wore masks all the time.

 

What you don't get it is that only the sick wore masks. Never the healthy.

 

And you don't seem to get that the healthy being forced to wear masks is going to be abandoned very soon. Just like lockdowns are already being abandoned.

 

Because the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense. The Hong Kongers and Japanese knew it before the virus, only the sick wore masks. Not the healthy.

 

I feel sorry for you that you don't seem to comprehend the simple fact that the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense at all.

 

 

Good luck in life Sir, you certainly are well on your way to attaining that elevated post and stardom you so much seek to have with your superior beliefs and knowledge.  Enjoy your mask....

2 minutes ago, John CS said:

If his response is ' thinking like a Thai ', then i support him for standing up for himself and expressing his rights, good to see ????

Endangering others? this is FEAR speaking here

Thailand has experienced 3000 infections of which their are only 57 deaths and of which 95 % will have had co-morbidities?? anybody actually have these details? would welcome the facts

So what about the actually supporting

a) elderly

b) people with medical issues

Quarantine and support these folk

and allow healthy people to let the virus propogate as viruses do every year

Rather than enslaving ALL people and propagating FEAR, that turn people against each other., as is clear by the thread ...

We know mr Lockdown predictions were wrong

Might the lockdown measures also be wrong?

NO FEAR ????

 

 

Wearing a mask in crowded areas is enslaving you.............................

Sweden thought like some "enslaved" folk on here.......

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-uk-death-rate-per-million-sweden-brazil-152335116.html

13 minutes ago, transam said:

I bet condoms are a no-no for him, and others, too....???? 

Thats right I am a natural man.....I go mask and condom free....

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Rights are one thing @Stoker58 but when a rule or edict is put in place the rules need to be followed.  Private businesses have always been able to refuse service to a customer.  It use to be posted on the doors of many establishments in the US "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" as well as posted near the cashier.  Rights only go so far.  The only way to change the rules is to become a member of the government and establish the rules yourself.  However, here in Thailand the Government has put these rules in play as well as provincial Governors or Phu Yai's within their villages. You either follow the rules or you are free to go somewhere else as a foreigner.  Thai's have never been good at following rules, as since childhood they are left to do as they please with no one ever telling them "No" or "You are Wrong", it is a part of FACE, and no one wants to be embarrassed, instead it creates conflict further down the road as they grow up, and or crimes occur because of not knowing the difference between right and wrong....

This is just nonsense, if a rule is non-sensical, injust and obviously wrong, it is in fact one's duty not to follow it. There was a rule that blacks should sit in different parts of the bus. Did it need to be followed? Of course not. And many people did not follow it, and hence we have the wonderful free society we have today. Oh wait. We did, until people like this came along who tell you you have to do nonsensical things to assuage their exaggerated fears.

 

Looks like someone doesn't know the difference between right or wrong.

Just now, redwood1 said:

Thats right I am a natural man.....I go mask and condom free....

So there we have it.....You and others can stand down now, hi-so farangs.....????

2 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Thats right I am a natural man.....I go mask and condom free....

Death eventually comes for us all, some sooner than others because of their actions......enjoy what you can while you can....

Just now, Logosone said:

This is just nonsense, if a rule is non-sensical, injust and obviously wrong, it is in fact one's duty not to follow it. There was a rule that blacks should sit in different parts of the bus. Did it need to be followed? Of course not. And many people did not follow it, and hence we have the wonderful free society we have today. Oh wait. We did, until people like this came along who tell you you have to do nonsensical things to assuage their exaggerated fears.

 

Looks like someone doesn't know the difference between right or wrong.

Yes, you.....Sadly....????

Just now, Logosone said:

Any measure has to conform with the principle of proportionality.

 

If it is indeed the case that only 0.8% of people have the virus, and 50% of them are asymptomatic that leaves you with 0.4% of the population. That's not even accounting for the fact that some people have the virus but can not transmit the disease, which Singapore research now shows is the norm for those who have gone through the disease. They have the virus still, but are not contagious.

 

This leaves you with a very small number of people, a tiny, exceedingly miniscule number, of people who are asymptomatic carriers from whom you could conceivably catch the virus.

 

Therefore forcing the entire population to wear masks, which in themselves would appear to do nothing or very little anyway to affect any pandemic, is not a measure that conforms with the proportionality principle.

 

The risk is just too small to justify such a major measure.

Thats the thing, if and more if. We are in unchartered territory and caution is the key, wearing masks does not have an impact on the economy or have the adverse affects of more stringent measures of social distancing. Its a small sacrifice to wear a mask in enclosed spaces, public transport etc. Walking in a park or beach then probably not.

17 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No, clearly you're not getting it, you're trying to argue that Asians wore masks all the time.

 

What you don't get it is that only the sick wore masks. Never the healthy.

 

And you don't seem to get that the healthy being forced to wear masks is going to be abandoned very soon. Just like lockdowns are already being abandoned.

 

Because the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense. The Hong Kongers and Japanese knew it before the virus, only the sick wore masks. Not the healthy.

 

I feel sorry for you that you don't seem to comprehend the simple fact that the healthy being forced to wear masks makes no sense at all.

 

 

I feel sorry that you have run out of any intelligent and sustainable arguments and are reduced to just repeating the same tripe over and over and over again as though you may achieve something by it. 

13 minutes ago, transam said:

Sweden thought like some "enslaved" folk on here.......

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-uk-death-rate-per-million-sweden-brazil-152335116.html

 

Only time will tell if Sweden got it right or wrong... They admitted to not protecting the care homes as well as they should have.

If it turns out that they avoid a 2nd wave then that will be a good result for them. Obviously their economy has been maintained to some degree but will still be affected by the economic climate in wider Europe.

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Thats the thing, if and more if. We are in unchartered territory and caution is the key, wearing masks does not have an impact on the economy or have the adverse affects of more stringent measures of social distancing. Its a small sacrifice to wear a mask in enclosed spaces, public transport etc. Walking in a park or beach then probably not.

Except it's not an "if". A scientific study in Iceland has shown that 0.8% of people have the virus.

 

If you take the number of cases in the US and divide them as per the US population, 0.5% of people have the virus.

 

So the actual cold hard, evidenced, scientific facts do indicate that the number of people who have the virus is in the region of 0.8%.

 

Of those 43% are asymptomatic. Of those how many will you actually meet? How many will expel droplets you would actually walk into?

 

There are in fact no hard studies to show that if a population in any country wears masks there is x reduction in transmission in that country. We do have studies that show that in countries where mask wearing was introduced the death rate actually went up.

 

So on the one hand you complain there's not enough evidence that few people get the virus, but on the other with very little or no evidence that masks would actually make a difference you're ready to get your mask on. It's a bit strange. 

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Why do you believe that? I feel confident that they will impede droplets from a cough or sneeze.

Exactly. 

Wearing the cloth and surgical masks is about blocking the expulsion of droplets from the wearers. 

When most people wear them in addition to distancing transmission of this virus is effectively suppressed. 

 

16 hours ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Question, why do you support Thailands decision to destroy an economy and its people? Im trying to figure out how people justify these shutdowns because the evidence just isnt their! Do your own investigation hopefully your not supporting shutdowns, distancing hook, line and sinker! The govt take in other words.

Im not a huge fan of the lockdowns.  Whats the sense in having a 11pm-4am curfew?  How does it help not selling alcohol?  I can respect the closing of bars, restaurants and other places where it would spread like crazy while we tried to understand what the virus is and how best to deal with it and build up testing and contact tracing (at least in some countries).  Im glad Thailand has reduced the rate as well as my home country Australia, NZ and others.  Masks seem to make a lot of sense although I hate wearing one.  I think the libertarian attitude in America is getting them in trouble.  100K death toll after a few months isnt very good and its been relatively warm weather.  Hopefully things change with better treatments or a vaccine.  How do you feel about it?

5 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Except it's not an "if". A scientific study in Iceland has shown that 0.8% of people have the virus.

 

If you take the number of cases in the US and divide them as per the US population, 0.5% of people have the virus.

 

There you again, relying on one scientific study of Iceland a  tiny island country of just 364,000 people and for that study only 6% of the population was tested. Then applying that to the US. If you are really relying on that as a model to base the rest of the world then there really is no hope. 

The anti-mask wearers on here remind me of I guy I used to work with who constantly bragged about going to Soi Cowboy but refused to wear a condom.  When questioned why by his horrified work colleagues the only intelligent answer was "Coz thats the kinda guy I am"!

 

Not sure if he is still around today....havent heard of him for a long while ????

I think the logic of the curfews is to discourage late night partying, booty calls, etc. People can theorize it's all about government control because they can but that's a simplistic way of looking at it. Of course governments in general like to have power and the Covid-19 pandemic will be a threat to civil rights internationally its also true that rather overbearing public health measures are necessary in the case of this particular virus. Its messy. No promises of rose gardens. 

Just now, ThaiFelix said:

The anti-mask wearers on here remind me of I guy I used to work with who constantly bragged about going to Soi Cowboy but refused to wear a condom.  When questioned why by his horrified work colleagues the only intelligent answer was "Coz thats the kinda guy I am"!

 

Not sure if he is still around today....havent heard of him for a long while ????

Masks are kind of like face condoms. 

Anti maskers oppose masks and shut down because virus cases are so low here, right?

Perhaps the cause (masks etc) results in effect of low numbers?

Do they suggest a wiser choice would be to wait for large numbers of deaths and then they'd be all in for those preventive measures?

I think businesses, beaches, etc should open up with enforced guidelines.

The perennial problem here is enforcement aka inaction by police. They've been in "shelter in place" mode as long as I can remember. Hear no evil, see no evil, eat donuts. "There's people breaking laws out there! It could be dangerous!"

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

There you again, relying on one scientific study of Iceland a  tiny island country of just 364,000 people and for that study only 6% of the population was tested. Then applying that to the US. If you are really relying on that as a model to base the rest of the world then there really is no hope. 

 

Because Iceland is such a tiny country they were able to do far more testing than any nation on earth.

 

The best Covid19 data in the world comes out of Iceland. And of course if you look at a country with a population like the US, 330,000,000 you will see their identified cases represent 0.5% of the population.

 

What a co-incidence, exactly round about the Iceland figure of 0.8%.

 

It is very clear now that the number of people who have the virus is much smaller than originally feared, it is around 0.8% of people, give or take a few basis points for national circumstances. It's a tiny number.

36 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Except it's not an "if". A scientific study in Iceland has shown that 0.8% of people have the virus.

 

If you take the number of cases in the US and divide them as per the US population, 0.5% of people have the virus.

 

So the actual cold hard, evidenced, scientific facts do indicate that the number of people who have the virus is in the region of 0.8%.

 

Of those 43% are asymptomatic. Of those how many will you actually meet? How many will expel droplets you would actually walk into?

 

There are in fact no hard studies to show that if a population in any country wears masks there is x reduction in transmission in that country. We do have studies that show that in countries where mask wearing was introduced the death rate actually went up.

 

So on the one hand you complain there's not enough evidence that few people get the virus, but on the other with very little or no evidence that masks would actually make a difference you're ready to get your mask on. It's a bit strange. 

The study is incomplete. Only partial testing conducted. Learn and move on.