No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I should imagine that no vaccine will mean no entry - as simple as that.

 

As for whether it is Thai or German vaccine, that probably will not matter as long as you have a valid certificate.

 

If you refuse to be vaccinated, well then Thailand will not be an option.

 

As for those of us resident here, as vaccination of the population becomes widespread, then I imagine we will either have to "go private" or pay " Falang prices" at the local government hospital. I would again imagine that a vaccination certificate will be required for our next extension of permission to stay.

Obviously it's nice to get a vaccine shot for free. But personally I would pay a few thousand baht to get that shot if necessary. That one time investment is a lot better than running the risk of being infected.

[smedly]

some people with certain medical conditions could be advised not to have this vaccine I have read

[Chivas]

For me what has been the most sickening is the lunatics claiming Bill Gates was trying to chip our brains via vaccines

The guy has donated $93 Billion (not a misprint)  of his own money over time helping to eradicate illness in Africa and we have these absolute nutjobs deriding him

 

Take the vaccine or never fly an aircraft again and rightfully so

[smedly]

there is no doubt that vaccines have saved many millions of lives over the years and wiped out some horrendous diseases , I'm amazed at what supposed intelligent people believe and follow - there is still a considerable following for the idea the earth is flat - those peddling such nonsense have huge houses and fancy cars and live off the clickbait fools that follow them - hilarious if it wasn't so serious concerning vaccines

[Muzzique]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Will Thailand allow people to enter Thailand without first having the Covid-19 vaccine?

 

Mass vaccinations will not start to happen till autumn 2021 and will take till mid 2022 to complete.

 

If you only allow vaccinated people in then before then you will attract only people over 65 with underlying health conditions.

 

As this is almost a perfect description of most Ferangs living in Thailand at the moment, I say go for it.

 

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Siddharta said:

thanks for the info, we did not know these new rules

Excellent posting rule.

[CapeTown]

The experience from past vaccination programs is that if you make it mandatory, you get lots of resistance, because what people in democracies object to is the use of force. Make it optional and it takes the wind out of the sails of the antivaxxers.

Reality is, don't need to vaccinate 100% of the population to get herd immunity, so a few antivaxxers would only be making problems for themselves. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by CapeTown

[Moonfire]

Are they selling the stamps, seals and blank shot cert. on Alibaba yet? Asking for a friend LOL! 

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, Muzzique said:

 

Mass vaccinations will not start to happen till autumn 2021 and will take till mid 2022 to complete.

 

If you only allow vaccinated people in then before then you will attract only people over 65 with underlying health conditions.

 

As this is almost a perfect description of most Ferangs living in Thailand at the moment, I say go for it.

 

 

"Mass vaccinations will not start to happen till autumn 2021 and will take till mid 2022 to complete."

 

Several other reports indicate much earlier.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, CapeTown said:

The experience from past vaccination programs is that if you make it mandatory, you get lots of resistance, because what people in democracies object to is the use of force. Make it optional anti it takes the wind out of the sails of the antivaxxers.

Reality is, dont need to vaccinate 100% of the population to get herd immunity, so a few antivaxxers would only be making problems for themselves. 

Yes of course you don't need 100 percent. But you do need to convert a lot of the vaccine skeptics as there are so many of them. 

[abrahamzvi]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19
The Thaiger
 

OPINION

 

 

With the announcements this week about several vaccine candidate trials, either being completed or at the end of their Phase 3 testings, and the applications to government bodies for ‘emergency approval’, we now have to face the next question.

 

What restrictions will be imposed on those people who don’t have the vaccine, or even actively choose not to have the vaccine?

And more locally…

 

Will Thailand allow people to enter Thailand without first having the Covid-19 vaccine?

 

Given the Thai Government’s low-risk strategy, well almost zero-risk strategy, and reluctance to take any chances with a second wave of Covid 19, it is highly likely there will be a stipulation that anyone entering Thailand will need a vaccine certificate or stamp in their passports.

Couple this with the Thai population’s continued fear of allowing foreigners back into the country at this time, in poll after poll, and it’s a safe bet there will be a “no vaccine, no entry” restriction imposed.

 

On a positive note, the Thai government may drop the 14 day quarantine for people that have had the vaccine (but not in the early days).

 

At this stage we know that most of the vaccine trials have had a 95% efficacy. We also know that the leading BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine needs an original jab plus a booster and has to be transported at extremely low temperature.

To complicate matters, there is not yet sufficient evidence that having had a bout of Covid-19, whether asymptomatic or not, guarantees you immunity. Or, if it does, for how long?

 

All these factors will mean that some level of quarantine will probably be in force as the Thai government slowly re-opens its borders to a wider groups of vaccinated travellers. This would remain in force until the world has a better knowledge of both the proven efficacy of the vaccine, or vaccines, and the re-infection rates.

 

So, even if we start getting groups of the world’s populations vaccinated before the end of the year, and that’s still a very big IF, there’s a lot more water to pass under the bridge until a coherent, reliable vaccine strategy can be understood and implemented.

 

Then there will be a rump of people, either hard core anti-vaxxers, or others who are at least skeptical of a new vaccine, who will want to wait or not want the vaccine at all. Public education, some strong science and a successful roll out of the early vaccines will be a key to winning over a lot of the world’s population.

 

Somehow governments and health authorities are going to have to wind back much of the disinformation floating around the internet about vaccines that is so factually out of whack with reality, it’s going to be one of the greatest public health challenges of all time, to reassure people about the science of vaccines and vaccination.

 

All this, in the middle of a pandemic that, for now, is still on the ascendency as far as new cases and deaths are concerned.

 

But there is little doubt rejoining the world of international travel, even local travel, could become restricted to only those who are vaccinated. The rest will be stuck roaming around their own countries, or states, for… years with a raft of restrictions on their lives. Who knows.

 

Will shopping centres or public buildings also impose a “no vaccine, no entry” policy? Hotels? Public buildings? Job applications?

 

On top of the economic stress which has fallen on a lot of the world, with so many governments now facing the headwinds of deep recession, the vaccine ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ will add even more public disquiet.

 

At this stage nobody is sure how the vaccine will be rolled out in Thailand. The Thai government has already signed up for several of the leading vaccine candidates and will most likely provide the vaccine for free to citizens under its public health system.

 

What does that mean for foreigners living here? If you are covered, with a work permit, under the country’s public health, are you able to get the vaccine for free too? Will the thousands of foreigners on private health insurance be covered?

 

Surely the insurers will want its customers to be vaccinated. Sick customers cost them money. So, will insurance renewals be limited to only people who have been vaccinated? Will visas be renewed only if you have been vaccinated?

 

At this stage there are no firm answers to any of these questions.

 

And then there is the SARS Cov2 virus (Covid-19) itself, a living virus which has the ability to mutate and adapt. Will these new vaccines be effective against all mutations? Again, this is all ahead of us.

 

We’re certainly now entering a new phase of this pandemic. New challenges, new questions. The rising numbers of cases throughout 2020 is only the first chapter of a book that will be many more years in the making.

 

Source: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/no-vaccine-no-entry-the-next-challenge-of-covid-19

 

-- © Copyright The Thaiger 2020-11-24

 

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Thank you for an excellent article. It says all and mentioned the pertinent questions surrounding the questions of vaccines. I am sure that the authorities will find the correct answers for Thailand.

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes of course you don't need 100 percent. But you do need to convert a lot of the vaccine skeptics as there are so many of them. 

 My guess is that the anti-vaxers will change their attitudes when vast numbers have been vaccinated with no side effects and those vaccinated can travel anywhere internationally and do many activities without restrictions.

 

 

[CapeTown]

It's a helpful article, could almost be written by a govt spokesperson!

Reality is that everyone is connected to everyone these days, it's worldwide. And that includes politically. In the race to get your people vaccinated, the stewards (like the WHO) will make sure everyone gets to the finishing line more or less at the same time. The dots will all be joined up.

Id also imagine Thailand, having come this far, won't let in foreigners until its own people are vaccinated - all of them, not just an elite.

By the time the World is vaccinated - which won't be long, few months - we'll have answers to all the questions in the article.

And of course the security services will profit from this with tracker app.s and passport stamps etc, just as the elite are trying to profit financially now.

I'd imagine that finally, the people of Thailand will be so broke and so very bored, there'll let everyone in once the vaccines are shown to be effective.

Summer 2021? Beach Party June everybody?

Edited November 24, 2020 by CapeTown

[Khunangkaro]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19
The Thaiger
 

OPINION

 

 

 

Utter nonsense, compulsory vaccination is unconstitutional against human rights. 

[Crash999]

2 hours ago, OttoPollmann said:

sorry about my stupid question.
The best of these vaccines will have a effectiveness of 95%. On the other hand, the mortality of sars-cov-2 is 2.3%.
Would that mean, even with a vaccination the mortality will not decrease?
Furthermore,  most of those fatality patients had underlaying conditions of any kind of sickness or age. Will be this vaccine effective with this precondition or are these the 5% causality.

Anyways, for sure I will not take any vaccine from a 3th world country. If I get forced, and that will be the case because I work worldwide, the vaccine must come from Germany.

It means that up to 95% of people receiving the vaccine will become immune. The balance 5% don’t develop immunity. 
 

If enough people get vaccinated then 95% effectiveness is more than enough to stop Covid from spreading. 
 

 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 My guess is that the anti-vaxers will change their attitudes when vast numbers have been vaccinated with no side effects and those vaccinated can travel anywhere internationally and do many activities without restrictions.

 

 

Yes, I'm sure a good portion of those avoiding the vaccine will be persuaded over time assuming that there are no indications of serious safety issues with the many millions getting it during the earlier phases. Of course if there are serious safety issues that are revealed, then that will be a big problem. On the other hand, there are already multiple vaccines that are going forward, so there could be a safety issue with one and that could be dropped without too much damage.

[Crash999]

1 minute ago, Khunangkaro said:

Utter nonsense, compulsory vaccination is unconstitutional against human rights. 

No one is making it compulsory. But if you don’t get it then you can’t fly. Simple as that. 

[Mattd]

This is almost certainly going to become a travel requirement for the whole world, let alone Thailand.

I am not anti vaccination, in fact far from it, vaccines have proved to be very effective for certain diseases over the years and have virtually eradicated some.

However, I do find it concerning that these COVID-19 vaccines are getting pushed through quickly, yes, development work had been taking place in the past for ones such as the Oxford vaccine, but have we had enough time to evaluate all of the possible side effects in humans, to be honest, I've no idea, I am no expert.

But imagine if there is an elephant in the room with these vaccines that has yet to show, in the meantime, countries such as the UK are making plans to vaccinate up to 1,000,000 people per day........................ (ain't going to happen, but that is the aim) then theoretically the whole population could be done in less than 5 months, 6 months later side effects start showing................... scary thought really.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Mattd

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Khunangkaro said:

Utter nonsense, compulsory vaccination is unconstitutional against human rights. 

This is not about compulsory vaccines. It's about entry restrictions. Not the same thing. 

[Tarteso]

Don't forget to install a warning signs;                 “ NO VACCINE, NO ENTRY “ at the borders, for those illegal and perhaps infected with Covid, who cross from Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos daily.

 

I see too much  job for a very long time.

[Kadilo]

Oxfords 20,000 test sample, 70-95% efficacy, no hospitalisation cases required after injection only very mild side effects. 
 

Stored at fridge temp, cheap, and easily distributed. 

 

What’s not to like. If it gives me my freedom back I’m in. 
 

 

[thaibestlover]

Good solution. Should come into effect December 1st 2020.

 

It needs to be a must to show

that injection happened in whatever

country before traveling to TH.

 

This boosts the TH economy again straight up. 

 

Quarantine is not an option for 99% of travelers. 

[Geoffggi]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Will Thailand allow people to enter Thailand without first having the Covid-19 vaccine?

In addition which of the vaccines will be recognised, I do believe the Chinese & Russian ones have not been given world health approval ......!!!

[Kaopad999]

Vaccinate the elderly & vulnerable, and then let the fit and healthy people get on with their lives! .

Surely that is the most sensible way? 
 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Kaopad999

[Muzzique]

54 minutes ago, scorecard said:

"Mass vaccinations will not start to happen till autumn 2021 and will take till mid 2022 to complete."

 

Several other reports indicate much earlier.

 

It's an unknown. Some reports suggest it could be earlier and some it could be later. This is the average view of the experts. 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201001133219.htm

 

COVAX estimates that by the end of 2021, 2 billion doses will have been manufactured and the COVAX framework dictates that this will enough to cover the 20% of the Worlds population that is at risk. Given the fact that this could be accelerated  then we can assume autumn 2021 to have met this goal and then the self financing countries can move past the 20% of the Tier 1 to the 50% agreed in COVAX.

 

However as with all these things the pigs will put their snouts in the trough and I am assuming the richer countries will buy their way to larger stocks and bypass their global agreements.

 

As you know the US left COVAX and now you can see why.

 

 

Even with that you are nowhere near the number of doses to have reached herd immunity and majority of people in the more affluent countries will not have been vaccinated by the end of 2021.

 

There's political Spin and then there is the reality. This is the reality.

 

However, I hope that you are right and I am wrong.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Muzzique

[RichardColeman]

I imagine there could be many ex-pats laughing at tourists having to have a vaccine to enter Thailand, I just wonder if they will be laughing when being vaccinated is part of the yearly visa applications !

[Kadilo]

2 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I imagine there could be many ex-pats laughing at tourists having to have a vaccine to enter Thailand, I just wonder if they will be laughing when being vaccinated is part of the yearly visa applications !

I would think it’s inevitable and the next logical step. Either that or keep paying ridiculous COVID insurance premiums. Make your choice. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Kadilo

[Khunangkaro]

5 minutes ago, Crash999 said:

No one is making it compulsory. But if you don’t get it then you can’t fly. Simple as that. 

That is to be seen... 

If you can't fly without it, that means it IS compulsory AGAINST the LAW. 

Anyway, I don't fly. I'm inside Thailand 23 years already, with permissions to stay. I not use planes, I'm driving all around the country where I avoid tourist places.

Enter 7/11 every-day. I have access without a muzzle without a problem. Never tested, never quarantined, never bothered. 

As long as I live No RNA MODification vaccin into me. 

[Emdog]

Years past a traveler had to have a smallpox inoculation to fly, a yellow record book noting that. I forgot book once, got second shot. No big deal, none of this foolishness about "freedom to be stupid", etc.

In my lifetime smallpox has been eliminated.

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, OttoPollmann said:

sorry about my stupid question.
The best of these vaccines will have a effectiveness of 95%. On the other hand, the mortality of sars-cov-2 is 2.3%.
Would that mean, even with a vaccination the mortality will not decrease?
Furthermore,  most of those fatality patients had underlaying conditions of any kind of sickness or age. Will be this vaccine effective with this precondition or are these the 5% causality.

Anyways, for sure I will not take any vaccine from a 3th world country. If I get forced, and that will be the case because I work worldwide, the vaccine must come from Germany.

To my understanding death rate in percentage is measured among registered cases. Looking at graphs it vary from 0.2 percent (or less) to little more than 9 percent; apart from Yemen, which might not be reliable data to include.

The problem with percentage measure is number of registered cases, as that's a question of number of tests. We see in Europe right now that the number of cases increase in 2nd wave, compared to the number of cases around April, but the number of tests has also increased many fold, whilst number of cases in hospital is lower now, than in April. Seems like the percentage rate of cases is not a reliable factor.

 

Looking at number of death per per 100k inhabitants, it's typically from 0,03 to 136.74 – Thailand is 0,09 – i.e. mortality rate from 0.00003 percent to 0.13674 percent of the whole population.

 

If a vaccine however generate 90-95 percent immunity, then the number of registered cases should be 90-95 percent lower. If the death rate is measured in percentage of registered cases, it might be the same – all other factors equal – whilst if measured against whole population, it should be 90-95 percent lower. I.e. of the mortally rate i 2 percent of registered cases, it will still be 2 percent, but the number of registered cases would be only 5-10 percent as many as before vaccination; in my understanding.

Take a look at the mortality facts here from John Hopkins "MORTALITY ANALYSES".