EURO 2020

[wilai]

Please stay on topic everyone and keep jingoism and politics out where possible. Thanks.

[Tanomazu]

31 minutes ago, zhounan said:

I am Italian and I can tell you that the Italians charge when the opponent proves to be arrogant and cocky, just as the English behaved in this competition.

 

This was the main reason for your defeat and our victory.

I think the main reason for England's defeat was their negative play. You saw that in the 2018 world cup as well, when England went 1:0 up against Croatia. There again they withdrew and just defended only to get the equalizer and then lose in extra-time.

 

This is now the second major final/semi-final which England have lost under this coach with negative play, sitting back, after getting a 1:0 lead. As a coach you have to be pro-active. You can't just sit back like Southgate does.

 

Look how Chiellini was in the 120th minute running forward to hit a cross. Italy played to win. England played not to lose. Again.

 

England was too negative, and that was due in part to Southgate.

[Excel]

31 minutes ago, zhounan said:

I am Italian and I can tell you that the Italians charge when the opponent proves to be arrogant and cocky, just as the English behaved in this competition.

 

This was the main reason for your defeat and our victory.

And you deserved  it but you also failed to mention that you also had the advantage of a very astute and technically capable manger in Roberto Mancini, who was always admired when he was the Manchester City manager and the things he achieved with them.

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I think the main reason for England's defeat was their negative play. You saw that in the 2018 world cup as well, when England went 1:0 up against Croatia. There again they withdrew and just defended only to get the equalizer and then lose in extra-time.

 

This is now the second major final/semi-final which England have lost under this coach with negative play, sitting back, after getting a 1:0 lead. As a coach you have to be pro-active. You can't just sit back like Southgate does.

 

Look how Chiellini was in the 120th minute running forward to hit a cross. Italy played to win. England played not to lose. Again.

 

England was too negative, and that was due in part to Southgate.

Attack is (nearly) always the best form of defense.

[Excel]

6 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I think the main reason for England's defeat was their negative play. You saw that in the 2018 world cup as well, when England went 1:0 up against Croatia. There again they withdrew and just defended only to get the equalizer and then lose in extra-time.

 

This is now the second major final/semi-final which England have lost under this coach with negative play, sitting back, after getting a 1:0 lead. As a coach you have to be pro-active. You can't just sit back like Southgate does.

 

Look how Chiellini was in the 120th minute running forward to hit a cross. Italy played to win. England played not to lose. Again.

 

England was too negative, and that was due in part to Southgate.

I agree and Gareth Southgate was never my choice and his style of play was found to be wanting yet again. Frankly he should be arrested for impersonating a football Manager, yet the old boy network of the FA is still there and England will never win anything without drastic changes. Already the media are touting England as world cup hopefuls next year. Well sorry I have waited 55 years since England won anything important and with Gareth Southgate as manger next year it looks like nothing will change. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Excel

[Tanomazu]

Just now, Surelynot said:

Attack is (nearly) always the best form of defense.

Exactly right. And here England had a golden chance, again, to win a game, being 1:0 ahead. But just like against Croatia in 2018, they lead and then turtle up in defense only to lose the game. These chances don't come a long a lot. Why not go for it?

 

England has massively talented attack players, Kane and Sterling and Sancho. Why not use them instead of playing negative?

[Surelynot]

Just now, Tanomazu said:

Exactly right. And here England had a golden chance, again, to win a game, being 1:0 ahead. But just like against Croatia in 2018, they lead and then turtle up in defense only to lose the game. These chances don't come a long a lot. Why not go for it?

 

England has massively talented attack players, Kane and Sterling and Sancho. Why not use them instead of playing negative?

Only highlight could be........someone lost in the Euro's final last time....and then went on to win the World Cup?????

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, Excel said:

I agree and Gareth Southgate was never my choice and his style of play was found to be wanting yet again. Frankly he should be arrested for impersonating a football Manager, yet the old boy network of the FA is still there and England will never win anything without drastic changes. Already the media are touting England as world cup hopefuls next year. Well sorry I have waited 55 years since England won anything important and with Gareth Southgate as manger next year it looks like nothing will change. 

I would rather England lost, but looked like a team who could really play football, than a team that struggle to get by, but somehow won.

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, wilai said:

They have them in Grealish, Foden, Maddison, Sancho et al but they were given little if any game time.

Grealish is a winger, so is Sancho. Of course Southgate should have played them both from the start, why he did not I really would love to know.

 

That leaves Maddison and Foden. But I am talking Xavi, Iniesta, Lothar Matthaus, Platini, Modric, these kind of creative attacking midfielders who scores goals and create goals. England just doesn't have them. If England had a Kai Havertz it would win the World Cup.

 

 

 

 

[Tanomazu]

8 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Only highlight could be........someone lost in the Euro's final last time....and then went on to win the World Cup?????

England will be a favourite at the world cup for sure, their squad has deep talent. However, I worry about their coach, because already in 2018 England were 1:0 up in the semi-final, then lose due to negative play. Here again they were 1:0 up and sit back only to lose.

 

Southgate used the right system, copying Low's flexible winger/midfield system, which worked against Germany and did well against a better Italian side, but he also made a lot of mistakes.

 

Too negative, did not play Grealish, Foden or Sancho, picked the wrong penalty takers. Southgate is not a bad coach. He's just not very good, like some others.

[Excel]

14 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I would rather England lost, but looked like a team who could really play football, than a team that struggle to get by, but somehow won.

Many people will now shoot me down when I say this but in all my years, ever since Walter Winterbottom was the manager (and the FA selectors picked the team !!!)  and naturally Sir Alf Ramsey must be at the top of the tree for his world cup success but since then it is only Glenn Hoddle and Bobby Robson in my view who were technically competent.   The former was ridiculed which sealed his resignation unfortunately 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Excel

[Tanomazu]

4 minutes ago, Excel said:

Many people will now shoot me down when I say this but in all my years, ever since Walter Winterbottom was the manager (and the FA selectors picked the team !!!)  and naturally Sir Alf Ramsey must be at the top of the tree for his world cup success but since then it is only Glenn Hoddle and Bobby Robson in my view who were technically competent.   The latter was ridiculed which sealed his resignation unfortunately 

I always liked Bobby Robson and Hoddle, but if you look at the winning percentage then Fabio Capello by far had the best winning percentage of all England managers. Gareth Southgate is second, so we'll have to see if he may not learn from his mistakes and do better.

 

But so far Fabio Capello was England's best manager. Ironically an Italian.

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, zhounan said:

I am Italian and I can tell you that the Italians charge when the opponent proves to be arrogant and cocky, just as the English behaved in this competition.

 

This was the main reason for your defeat and our victory.

Yeah we make the same mistakes over and over. No coincidence Bonucci was bellowing “it’s coming Rome” into the camera at the final whistle. I’m sure our arrogance got them suitable fired up. 
At the end of the day we had an easy group, beat the worst German side for donkeys and came up well short against an emerging Italian side. 
Perspective is something this country never had and now all we are going to hear now is how we are going to win the World Cup and put it right. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Kadilo

[Excel]

11 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

I always liked Bobby Robson and Hoddle, but if you look at the winning percentage then Fabio Capello by far had the best winning percentage of all England managers. Gareth Southgate is second, so we'll have to see if he may not learn from his mistakes and do better.

 

But so far Fabio Capello was England's best manager. Ironically an Italian.

But winning % of the major tournaments namely the World cup and the Euros for any of them is zero except for Sir Alf Ramsey.

[OneeyedJohn]

How could they allow a teenager the responsibility for the "last" penalty. If you hit a penalty full on, full blast, it should be past the goalkeeper before he can move. That's how it was when I played football. Hit it hard, low or high.

  Since when do you sidefoot a penalty.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by OneeyedJohn

[Surelynot]

Just now, OneeyedJohn said:

How could they allow a teenager the responsibility for the "last" penalty. If you hit a penalty full on, full blast, it should be past the goalkeeper before he can move. That's how it was when I played football. Hit it hard, low or high.

 

100% agree......Southgate did say he chose the players.........but I think he might be clever enough to say that in order to protect those that missed.....guess we will never know.

[OneeyedJohn]

The racial <deleted> those three guys got is not good, and why in this day and age do we still have people that can behave like that. Gareth Southgate has a tough job and I wouldn't dare criticise him for one minute.

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

The racial <deleted> those three guys got is not good, and why in this day and age do we still have people that can behave like that. Gareth Southgate has a tough job and I wouldn't dare criticise him for one minute.

This is why...........

 

Football fans have a right to boo the England team for “taking the knee” in protest at racism, Priti Patel, the home secretary has said.

 

Boris Johnson has said he wants the “whole country” to get behind the England team but refused to condemn those who booed players taking a knee.

[katana]

Italy in their dominant spell(s) tired them out by keeping possession and getting the English players to run after the ball. Even when they temporarily won the ball, they just hoofed it upfield to lose it again. It needed England once they won possession to string a few passes together, gain some composure and make the opposing team chase the game.

[Tanomazu]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

This is why...........

 

Football fans have a right to boo the England team for “taking the knee” in protest at racism, Priti Patel, the home secretary has said.

 

Boris Johnson has said he wants the “whole country” to get behind the England team but refused to condemn those who booed players taking a knee.

He also said: "We know that you can not just win this tournament but that you will lift the cup".

 

 

 

 

[poppysdad]

I’m not a footie fan at all but I do like to see my country succeed and in my humble opinion highly paid footballers at this level should not be missing 3 out of 5 penalties and when you consider against Denmark they again missed a penalty and only got through because of the rebound getting put in the net its a dismal show, especially when they hardly covered themselves in glory on a poorly drawn game with the Scots. Much to much Hype.
 

[OneeyedJohn]

I agree, whatever the details of penalties, the whole second half and extra time was just watching blue shirts pass the ball to each other, and as much as you may dislike Italians, you have to accept they outplayed us in every context.

[Kadilo]

30 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I agree, whatever the details of penalties, the whole second half and extra time was just watching blue shirts pass the ball to each other, and as much as you may dislike Italians, you have to accept they outplayed us in every context.

What is there to dislike?

They play great football led

by an older chap at the back who has smiled his way through every match. and had the over hyped Stirling in his back pocket.

Managed by a gentleman who is as humbles as they come.………………..plus the best National Anthem by a country mile. 

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, poppysdad said:

I’m not a footie fan at all but I do like to see my country succeed and in my humble opinion highly paid footballers at this level should not be missing 3 out of 5 penalties and when you consider against Denmark they again missed a penalty and only got through because of the rebound getting put in the net its a dismal show, especially when they hardly covered themselves in glory on a poorly drawn game with the Scots. Much to much Hype.
 

Marcus Rashford gets paid 200,000 GBP per WEEK to play football. Again, that is 200,000 GBP per week. Every single week, 200,000 GBP go on his bank account to play football. But he can not put a football in the net from 11 metres into a 7.35 m wide goal? Explain that. If you can.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Tanomazu said:

Marcus Rashford gets paid 200,000 GBP per WEEK to play football. Again, that is 200,000 GBP per week. Every single week, 200,000 GBP go on his bank account to play football. But he can not put a football in the net from 11 metres into a 7.35 m wide goal? Explain that. If you can.

There was a calculator that allowed you to enter your salary and it would tell you what year you would have worked from to earn the same as Ronaldo.......mine said............. 1495

[poppysdad]

In many sports (golf and tennis come to mind) it doesn’t matter how good you are, if you don’t win the tournaments you don’t get the big pay cheque and yet footballers seem to be able to get the big pay cheques without achieving much when they play. 

[Tanomazu]

3 minutes ago, poppysdad said:

In many sports (golf and tennis come to mind) it doesn’t matter how good you are, if you don’t win the tournaments you don’t get the big pay cheque and yet footballers seem to be able to get the big pay cheques without achieving much when they play. 

That's so true. It's unbelievable that Marcus Rashford gets paid 200,000 GBP a WEEK, yet can't score a penalty for his country.

 

 

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

Marcus Rashford gets paid 200,000 GBP per WEEK to play football. Again, that is 200,000 GBP per week. Every single week, 200,000 GBP go on his bank account to play football. But he can not put a football in the net from 11 metres into a 7.35 m wide goal? Explain that. If you can.

Simple. He’s still a human being and no amount of money can buy perfection. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Kadilo

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, poppysdad said:

In many sports (golf and tennis come to mind) it doesn’t matter how good you are, if you don’t win the tournaments you don’t get the big pay cheque and yet footballers seem to be able to get the big pay cheques without achieving much when they play. 

Well in tennis and golf, all participants receive some prize money , the higher you progress , the more money you earn .

  Football players earn more money because the sport is more popular and more people pay to watch the game and thus gets a higher income 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Marcus Rashford gets paid 200,000 GBP per WEEK to play football. Again, that is 200,000 GBP per week. Every single week, 200,000 GBP go on his bank account to play football. But he can not put a football in the net from 11 metres into a 7.35 m wide goal? Explain that. If you can.

There is someone on a similar amount who is standing between the posts trying to stop him