Would you consider Portugal?

[Jingthing]

Keeping on the theme, how about Portugal?

Portugal continues to be high on the list of welcoming, high quality, more or less "affordable" expat destinations.  

They have a quite organized visa program for this. 

 

I had some interest in Portugal but a while back determined that my pension was inadequate to quality, but have recently read some items that maybe it would be OK.

 

I'm not sure if the policies have liberalized or I've just read misinformation (before or recently). 

 

The process must start in your home country not Portugal. It takes a long time. Whether the Portuguese embassy in Bangkok would process non-Thai expats for this I don't know. 

 

Some difficult things with it is that you must have an address in Portugal to be approved (not sure at which stage) and having a Portuguese bank account with proof that you can flow in your funds is showing up in enforcement. In other words not only proof of finances but proof that you can get the funds to Portugal which sounds logical enough but you'd obviously need to be in Portugal to open a bank account.

 

As far as cost of living, my general impression is that in general Portugal is not as cheap as the usual Asean places Thai expats are looking at. Particularly with housing. But of course like anywhere it's one thing living in central Lisbon and another living in a non-touristic smaller town. 

 

English is widely spoken especially by younger people, but I think you would need to learn the language to progress to higher residency or citizenship status after five years. Personally I find the Portugal Portuguese language to be much less fun than Brazilian Portuguese and also weirdly it sounds like Russian.

 

Yes I have been there long ago driving a lot of places around the country even to the interior but I didn't make it as far north as Porto. I did make it to Coimbra though. 

 

Porto is landing on lists now as one of the top expat destinations in the world now for both retirement and digital nomads.

 

Non E.U. people would need to buy private health insurance. While much less expensive than U.S. based private insurance, people would have the same worries about issues with age and preexisting conditions. 

 

My personal feelings about Portugal are mixed. It is Europe and Europe on a lower budget The food and wine are great. It's a smaller sized country which has its advantages. It's closer to the USA than Thailand by far. The negative part is more about my emotional reaction to the place that can't really be quantified.

 

Visa info.

https://www.globalcitizensolutions.com/portugal-d7-visa/

 

https://www.d7visa.com/portugal-retirement-visa/

 

So have any of you considering moving to Portugal. Have you lived there before? 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Jingthing

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Would you consider Portugal ?

No being from England I certainly would still choose Thailand over Portugal.

Had many sport holidays there 30 years ago but only Algarve.

 

It was all good apart from house break-ins and of night-time you would need to be very careful if walking alone in some places.

Don't know what it's like now but let’s face it, nowhere is perfect.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

No being from England I certainly would still choose Thailand over Portugal.

Had many sport holidays there 30 years ago but only Algarve.

 

It was all good apart from house break-ins and of night-time you would need to be very careful if walking alone in some places.

Don't know what it's like now but let’s face it, nowhere is perfect.

Well perhaps Portugal might seem more "special" to Americans as its been a familiar haunt of Brits for so many years. Coincidentally or not I had a crime incident myself there in Sintra. Yes I "did" the Algarve but in the unlikely event that I did move to Portugal I think it would be to a more locals area of Lisbon or Porto or perhaps Coimbra. I still remember some specific meals I had there and then there was that magical night of Fado  (happy to be sad music) that some fast friends locals dragged me to. Portugal at least in the cities is very gay friendly.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jeffr2]

Portugal would be a great place to explore.  But not sure I'd want to live there full time.  It does get cold in the winter.  We were in the south during the late fall and most businesses were closed.  Kinda depressing.

 

Perhaps up near Porto?  I've not been there, but would love to visit.

[BritManToo]

Too cold in winter for me.

[simon43]

I do need to consider the possibility that ill-health in future years might require me to move from Laos and back to a sunny country with acceptable medical facilities.  Portugal is a possibility, but being a Brit, I now have the added burden of Brexit, which affects residency status in the EU.

 

Luckily, I am eligible for an Irish passport (my grandfather was Irish - my brothers already have their Irish passports).  But I need to pay an agent to do the application paperwork for me, since it's rather difficult to do this from Laos.

 

I visited Portugal many years ago.  I liked it!  Could be far worse.....

Edited April 12, 2021 by simon43

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I do need to consider the possibility that ill-health in future years might require me to move from Laos and back to a sunny country with acceptable medical facilities.  Portugal is a possibility, but being a Brit, I now have the added burden of Brexit, which affects residency status in the EU.

 

Luckily, I am eligible for an Irish passport (my grandfather was Irish - my brothers already have their Irish passports).  But I need to pay an agent to do the application paperwork for me, since it's rather difficult to do this from Laos.

 

I visited Portugal many years ago.  I liked it!  Could be far worse.....

I love Ireland a lot...but the weather.  UGH!!!!

[nobodysfriend]

On 4/10/2021 at 11:33 PM, Jingthing said:

So have any of you considering moving to Portugal. Have you lived there before? 

 

Yes , I lived there from 1978 ( arrived just 3 years after the revolution ) to the early 90's . That was a real good time .

Incredible hospitality by the locals , parties on the beach , hardly any tourists in the beginning ...

In 2010 I went back there for a holiday and was shocked by how much the portugese people , ( Algarve ) , and the countryside ( building boom ) had changed .

The 'progress' , ( and all the english tourists and long term stayers ) had arrived .

Now I won't go there anymore , more happy where I live in Thailand .

If you could go back 40 yrs in time , yes a good place .

Now ? No . thanks ...

[simon43]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

I love Ireland a lot...but the weather.  UGH!!!!

LoL, getting an Irish passport has nothing to do with living in that country ????  It definitely rains too much and is too cold for me.  If ill-health required a return to Europe, then Portugal, southern France, Italy etc would be on my shortlist of places to live.

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, simon43 said:

LoL, getting an Irish passport has nothing to do with living in that country ????  It definitely rains too much and is too cold for me.  If ill-health required a return to Europe, then Portugal, southern France, Italy etc would be on my shortlist of places to live.

I'm from the US and am considering some options like this also.  I really don't want to go back, but in the future, health issues may force the move.

 

I'm part American Indian.  I can move back to my reservation and get 100% free quality health care.  But who wants to live in Oklahoma!!!! LOL

[dannyol]

Porto is a great part of the country.  I am strongly considering moving somewhere between central and northern inland.  With a background in Spanish, I am finding Portuguese not so difficult spending at least 30 minutes a day studying.  I'd like to have some language proficiency under my belt before arrival.

 

I am finding conflicting information in my research.  AFAIK, there is no requirement to have an address or bank account before applying for a retirement visa, but you do need to have travel insurance (including repatriation) and housing reservations for the 4 months that the visa covers.  After that health insurance in-country is cheap (and required while on "residency permit").

 

The country is said to be very accepting of gay lifestyles and was one of the first European countries to legalize same sex marriage.  I would imagine the the further into the countryside, the more those attitudes lag behind.

 

I am finding lots of useful information on https://expatsportugal.com/

[ignis]

80's and 90's a lot happened, over time the Portuguese people changed, prices went up after they joined the EU

 

Many poor land owner sold some or all there land, bought a newer place or had running water installed, the tin roof repaired, bought a car/truck = all the money gone from sale of their land, big expensive houses built on the old land = they had no money left no land left... envy and resentment set in = land prices shot up

 

Restaurants we open until you left, then prices went up, all the new EU health laws enforced, min wage enforced = to make any money you went in and all in a rush they wanted you out or buying more = prices shot up, I left after 11 years in 1996 

 

I have been here since 2003

[Tagged]

22 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

No being from England I certainly would still choose Thailand over Portugal.

Had many sport holidays there 30 years ago but only Algarve.

 

It was all good apart from house break-ins and of night-time you would need to be very careful if walking alone in some places.

Don't know what it's like now but let’s face it, nowhere is perfect.

The safety and freedom we have and feel in Thailand, is nowhere to be found other places I believe, but been in Portugal and travelled a bit around, the only negative I have to say about the country, is the cold you feel in winter. I like Portugal, and it is close to everything for me as an Europeen, and also can enjoy direct flights to Brasil as well is a huge puss. If you homecooking, then it is very cheep country, and even going out, you pay less for a meal for two with a bottle of wine there than here in Thailand. Fresh seafood, fresh vegetables with less toxics than here in Thailand. 

 

Yes Portugal is on my list if life in Thailand change for some reason to the worse. 

[robertson468]

For Brits, Portugal which is in the EU is not longer as appealing, combined with the somewhat cooler winters and a very cold Atlantic Sea, looses hands down compared to Thailand.  Had considered living there at one time, but find the locals not quite as welcoming as Thai Folks, especially those on Koh Samui!

[Kurtf]

Portugal would be definitely on my list of places to retire to. Hard to imagine that the visa restrictions would be tougher than the ones imposed by Thailand.

[nickmondo]

I agree, the language there does sound Russian.

It is not pleasant on the ear, unlike in Brasil, where it sounds beautiful.

[nickmondo]

6 minutes ago, Kurtf said:

Portugal would be definitely on my list of places to retire to. Hard to imagine that the visa restrictions would be tougher than the ones imposed by Thailand.

your having a laugh mate

What is hard about the visas here in Thailand

I can tell you for sure, 100%, a Visa in Thailand is a lot easier than in Portugal

Unless you are a EU citizen of course, when you dont need a visa in Portugal

[LivinLOS]

23 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

No being from England I certainly would still choose Thailand over Portugal.

Had many sport holidays there 30 years ago but only Algarve.

 

It was all good apart from house break-ins and of night-time you would need to be very careful if walking alone in some places.

Don't know what it's like now but let’s face it, nowhere is perfect.

 

Algarve not that pleasant IMO.. 

Northern Portugal is high on my list, I think for me it would likely be superior (cheap sports cars, wine, etc.. Close to family for easy visits) and cheaper cost of living, but for my wife, I dont think she could be truly happy long term outside of Thailand. I am more adaptable than she is basically. 

[Tarteso]

I was been there for holidays in Algarve for years (1978-1990). Very Good times, always living near to the beaches like Faro and lago...inexpensive renting houses, foods and fantastics wine Vinho Verde !

 

I Came back years after (2007).  I was surprised how the prices changed.

Personally, no have sense live in Portugal far from beach... so quiets and bored places, specially after visit Porto Alegre and Manaos ( Brasil ).  the great mixture of races has made a great difference of characters between the Brazilians and the Portuguese. About the language; As @nickmondo said and it’s true,  is not pleasant on the ear, unlike in Brasil, where it sounds beautiful... including the women, the rhythm and of course...the music.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Tarteso

[Tagged]

48 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

your having a laugh mate

What is hard about the visas here in Thailand

I can tell you for sure, 100%, a Visa in Thailand is a lot easier than in Portugal

Unless you are a EU citizen of course, when you dont need a visa in Portugal

Thats true, but both places requires you know what paper you have to deliver, you got the money to prove, of course unless you are a eu citizen, and you do not even need an insurance as eu citizen. We all got the EU health insurance card. I believe even Uk still got the same benefits after brexit as well. 

 

Google 

UK-issued European Health Insurance Cards (EHICs) are still valid and offer the same cover as GHICs in the EU. Once your EHIC has expired, you'll be able to replace it with a GHIC. You can get a provisional replacement certificate (PRC) if you need treatment abroad and do not have a card.

 

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/apply-for-a-free-uk-global-health-insurance-card-ghic/

 

I see it states temporary stay, so, 

[Tagged]

28 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

but for my wife, I dont think she could be truly happy long term outside of Thailand. I am more adaptable than she is basically. 

The same here, my gf I have taken many places both in Thailand and Europe, but home best. Thats where she thrive and feel like she is somebody, and have her family close. Totally different girl and good to see. 

 

And I have no problem to stay close to her parents, but need to travel and get away, and it gives life more contrasts as well, be able to travel. 

 

Still Portugal is a great place with many things to do, and beautiful landscape, easy to cross borders, nice place to ride motorbike, watersport as airsports. Close to the alps, and home where family and friends still is. And when passed 70, you got the safety of decent infrastructure and hospitals. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, nickmondo said:

your having a laugh mate

What is hard about the visas here in Thailand

I can tell you for sure, 100%, a Visa in Thailand is a lot easier than in Portugal

Unless you are a EU citizen of course, when you dont need a visa in Portugal

Actually.. not really.. 

Currently theres a 10 year entrepreneur / startup visa with near zero income taxes.. 
Theres golden visas for retirees.. 
Theres visas for simply purchasing property.. 

And then 3 - 5 years later.. a full passport and citizenship. All processed in a fairly non combative way.. 

Name anything close for long stay folks to Thailand... Especially with no Thai family connections.. 

[Kwasaki]

57 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Algarve not that pleasant IMO.. 

Northern Portugal is high on my list, I think for me it would likely be superior (cheap sports cars, wine, etc.. Close to family for easy visits) and cheaper cost of living, but for my wife, I dont think she could be truly happy long term outside of Thailand. I am more adaptable than she is basically. 

Correction to my post " Being from England ".

I wouldn't consider Portugal at all my friends and I only went there on holiday to use the many shooting facilities.

 

Later on in life after traveling Europe & Asia I decided Thailand would be where I would try out retirement.

[Jingthing]

45 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Actually.. not really.. 

Currently theres a 10 year entrepreneur / startup visa with near zero income taxes.. 
Theres golden visas for retirees.. 
Theres visas for simply purchasing property.. 

And then 3 - 5 years later.. a full passport and citizenship. All processed in a fairly non combative way.. 

Name anything close for long stay folks to Thailand... Especially with no Thai family connections.. 

My current understanding is also that the visa that people use for retirement at any age also includes a 10 year tax holiday. But obviously people would need to confirm the current details.

The Portuguese and Thai immigration offers are entirely different. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Jingthing

[nobodysfriend]

Ever considered the Canary islands ? , ( Spain ) , 7 islands , all different from each other , but all nice in some way ... and Winters are warmer over there ... lot's of cosmopolitan people ...

Anyway , if I had to go back there somewhere , I would probably move to Morocco ... Marrakech , Essaouira , even Tangiers , all places good to live , and not so 100% european lifestyle anymore , what is a big + in my eyes ...

Edited April 12, 2021 by nobodysfriend

[BritManToo]

Just now, nobodysfriend said:

Ever considered the Canary islands ? , ( Spain ) , 7 islands , all different from each other , but all nice in some way ... and Winters are warmer over there ... lot's of cosmopolitan people ...

Too dry, and everywhere is closed out of season.

[nobodysfriend]

Santa Cruz de Tenerife , Las Palmas , all the big cities never close ... but may be will because of Covid ...?

La Palma island is not dry . Lanzarote is a Volcanic island ,

Fuerteventura is the Sahara desert but charming , Hierro is special in many ways , Tenerife and Gran Canaria are the big touristic islands ...

[Tarteso]

25 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Ever considered the Canary islands ? , ( Spain ) , 7 islands , all different from each other , but all nice in some way ... and Winters are warmer over there ... lot's of cosmopolitan people ...

Anyway , if I had to go back there somewhere , I would probably move to Morocco ... Marrakech , Essaouira , even Tangiers , all places good to live , and not so 100% european lifestyle anymore , what is a big + in my eyes ...

I’m Not sure about Morocco.. I was working in Sahara camps. After that I decided to live in Asilah six months.

 

Terrible experiences with these people, My daughter could not walk alone or be working on her tan in the quiets beach, They are annoying, interested and constantly looking for your money, I also met good families, but the cultural difference and religious ideology is shocking.  After the attacks in Casa Blanca, where some Spanish compatriots were murdered ... I decided to leave that Muslim Country.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Tarteso

[nobodysfriend]

You are right , I remember too ... when you arrive somewhere the locals are always after your money ... but if you really stay and live there for a while , they get to know you and let you in peace ...

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, Tarteso said:

I’m Not sure about Morocco.. I was working in Sahara camps. After that I decided to live in Asilah six months.

 

Terrible experiences with these people, My daughter could not walk alone or be working on her tan in the quiets beach, They are annoying, interested and constantly looking for your money, I also met good families, but the cultural difference and religious ideology is shocking.  After the attacks in Casa Blanca, where some Spanish compatriots were murdered ... I decided to leave that Muslim Country.

 

We were only there for a month, but found a huge difference between those on one side of the mountain range and those on the other.  The Berbers were fantastic!  The ones on the other side of the mountains?  Not so much.  Especially in the big tourist areas.  No fun in a few of these places.