Pattaya A Dead or Dying City?

[tomyami]

expect more of this at the corner of soi Diana and second road will they help fill the malls

 

[Leaver]

28 minutes ago, tomyami said:

expect more of this at the corner of soi Diana and second road will they help fill the malls

 

 

How will they help fill the malls when they are not full themselves?  Just look at the Base next door.  

[johng]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

How will they help fill the malls when they are not full themselves?  Just look at the Base next door.  

Even before the Covidiocy  they where saying there where something  like 35,000 unsold units in Pattaya !

 

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

How will they help fill the malls when they are not full themselves?  Just look at the Base next door.  

Even if they were full, i don't see how it could help the malls

these ''condo-hotel'' are the cheapest option on airbnb and the like

that means they are full of tourists that you are more likely to see at the 7\11

buying a cheap 40bhts meal rather than in an expensive restaurant 

in one of the shopping malls.  

 

That's why the 7\11 have been mutiplied by 10 or 20 in the last years in this area

and that's why the food court in T21 was dirty cheap, they were all targeting

these people.

 

You can attract a lot of people in T21 with 30 or 40 thb meals in your food court

 that creates the illusion of a big traffic in the center

so you can ask a high rent for your space if you are the owner of the mall

however i am not sure at all it gives a decent customers base for the shops and restaurants

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, tomyami said:

expect more of this at the corner of soi Diana and second road will they help fill the malls

 

This type of building shouldn't be

allowed to be build for safety reasons

it's just a disaster waiting to happens

 

imagine if a fire start in high season in the middle

of the night in the low levels, it will be hundred\thousand of victims

 

Maybe the oldest of us remember the fire in the hotel in Jomtiem ?

https://apnews.com/article/31d72ecfed6d2d558a4889e1c451fd85

 

 

Unfortunately the firefighters in Pattaya haven't a much better equipment nowadays and they are not prepared at all to fight a fire in this type of building

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[redwood1]

15 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well yes, I think they hit Central Festival BR... certainly their overpriced food court. 

 

Has anyone been to or seen the Central Festival food court lately?

 

Holy Mother Mary......DEAD is to kind of a word for that place, I have seen more lively morgs .....The few wayward souls who are occupying chairs, mostly seem to be hanging out a bit or having a coffee...

 

Most of the cooks have nothing to do but play on their phones all day....

 

Even with 100% free rent those food booths have to losing $$$ every single day they are open.....Central must be paying them to stay open, no possible way they are even covering overhead....

 

That food court was packed all day every day in days past, that place was a money printing machine...They traded in a gold mine for a turd and no one seems to really care....

 

If I was incharge, First day on the job I would be passing out plenty of walking papers for this food court remodel disaster....

 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by redwood1

[kinyara]

Until I start to see global fashion brands like Uniglo and H&M merge their Central Festival and Terminal 21 outlets into 1 store I remain convinced that there is enough business and customer differentiation for both the main malls to profitably co-exist in the long-term. It's great to have 2 quality retail options in the town.

 

The big question for me is what happens to the Avenue, Marina, Royal Garden in the next few years and also that horrendous eyesore The Bay, I think they should just demolish that one and start again.  

[kinyara]

17 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Has anyone been to or seen the Central Festival food court lately?

 

Holy Mother Mary......DEAD is to kind of a word for that place, I have seen more lively morgs .....The few wayward souls who are occupying chairs, mostly seem to be hanging out a bit or having a coffee...

 

Most of the cooks have nothing to do but play on their phones all day....

 

Even with 100% free rent those food booths have to losing $$$ every single day they are open.....Central must be paying them to stay open, no possible way they are even covering overhead....

 

That food court was packed all day every day in days past, that place was a money printing machine...They traded in a gold mine for a turd and no one seems to really care....

 

If I was incharge, First day on the job I would passing out plenty of walking papers for this food court remodel disaster....

 

 

 

Totally agree with you on the food court,  if ain't broke don't fix it.  I can't for the life of me think why they decided to change what was a winning formula, and replace it with a clearly inferior set-up.

[Lacessit]

On 5/20/2021 at 4:00 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course it will live on to some degree, but it might be reduced to the pitiful level of Chiang Mai, where the bars are a bad joke. They were so pathetic that I just couldn't be bothered, and I used to be a bar addict in Pattaya. I couldn't even find a decent soapy. There was one in a big hotel, but it had been closed permanently.

AFAIK Sayuri and Celeb are still open for business.

[kinyara]

Forgot about Tops on the corner of the traffic light junction of Klang and 2nd road, that's another outlet fallen on hard times ripe for repurposing in a good location.

Edited May 30, 2021 by kinyara

[kingofthemountain]

50 minutes ago, kinyara said:

The big question for me is what happens to the Avenue, Marina, Royal Garden in the next few years and also that horrendous eyesore The Bay, I think they should just demolish that one and start again.  

They are the perfect places to create few public parks

unfortunately the city hall and the Thais seems to hate the trees

so i wouldn't be surprised if they do more parking for the cars instead

(That's exactly what they are going to do in Naklua, a car park at the place of the actual park)

[tomyami]

why are they building really bad condos small 26sqm arcadia, base and the 1 imaged no balcony definitely build with short stay plan for visitors, needs mass tourist movement to work wont bring higher quality market but tour groups for sure when it comes back pattaya screwed till then

[newnative]

10 hours ago, kinyara said:

Until I start to see global fashion brands like Uniglo and H&M merge their Central Festival and Terminal 21 outlets into 1 store I remain convinced that there is enough business and customer differentiation for both the main malls to profitably co-exist in the long-term. It's great to have 2 quality retail options in the town.

 

The big question for me is what happens to the Avenue, Marina, Royal Garden in the next few years and also that horrendous eyesore The Bay, I think they should just demolish that one and start again.  

     Agree.  Both malls were doing well in 2019.  Before T21, my partner and I couldn't go to Festival on a weekend--just too busy.  After T21  opened it was a little less busy and finding a parking place--and getting in and out of the parking garage--was now manageable.  We sometimes go to Festival, sometimes T21.  Nice to have both.  

[johng]

13 hours ago, johng said:

Even before the Covidiocy  they where saying there where something  like 35,000 unsold units in Pattaya !

 

 

Sorry poor recollection.   25,000 not 35,000 ????

 

"The Pattaya condo market is seeing significant oversupply according to Colliers Research, with more than 25,000 units remaining unsold as of the end of 2019"

 

https://thailand-business-supplement.com/2020/04/17/pattaya-condo-market-sees-record-oversupply/

[upu2]

On 5/12/2021 at 5:19 AM, 4MyEgo said:

It doesn't take much these days with technology to create fear, TV, media and some ugly looking dudes in suits who are in powerful positions, also wearing a mask, and having been vaccinated.

 

The light at the end of the tunnel are vaccines, and for those who take them, you will be rewarded and get your vaccine passports to travel and life will be back to normal.

 

We can then live happily ever after.

This fear can be kept going for as long as anyone wants it to. A virus such as Covid can and will change. The change can be used to instill more fear if that is what anyone wants to do.

[Inala]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:33 AM, J Town said:

If anyone read "The Dark Tower" series, they'll understand the term "the world has moved on."  Yes, everything is shut down by decree and will probably go on an "open/shut" roller coaster for a year or two.

 

The sex industry was Pattaya's forte. That's been demolished. The girls found out they can make a fortune online without ever swapping bodily fluids. I don't think it will ever return to its glorious apex of the previous decade. I'm just seriously grateful I got in as many soapies as I did!

 

The world has moved on.

 

No it hasn't, it's just in respite due to the virus. A look back in history to the roaring twenties shows what happens when the virus eventually recedes.

 

Pattaya will come back because humans crave social experiences. The girls working online and their customers will be bored with the sterility of that experience and jump at the chance for flesh to flesh contact.

 

It'll be an explosion of celebrations.   

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:17 PM, jacko45k said:

Just T21 I think... pretty sure Harbor predated Central Festival. And that one along with The Avenue never stood a chance. 

I don't consider the Avenues to have ever been a contender for success. I knew when it opened ( I was there at the ceremony ) that it would fail simply because it was not all air conditioned. Why would anyone want to walk around in the heat, when Royal Garden was a very nice, fully AC mall, and only a 5 minute walk away.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, redwood1 said:

That food court was packed all day every day in days past, that place was a money printing machine...They traded in a gold mine for a turd and no one seems to really care....

Every time I went it was packed with Russians, and I believe that the Russians have not yet returned.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Inala said:

The girls working online and their customers will be bored with the sterility of that experience and jump at the chance for flesh to flesh contact.

Errrrrr, the on line bit was only to arrange a meeting for "flesh to flesh" contact. That may have changed after corona given lack of farangs actually IN Thailand, but IMO it'll change back when the customers return. IMO hanging around in some grotty bar pretending to like fat sweaty farangs must have been very boring.

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every time I went it was packed with Russians, and I believe that the Russians have not yet returned.

They are too busy recovering from being poisoned by their government. 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

They are the perfect places to create few public parks

unfortunately the city hall and the Thais seems to hate the trees

so i wouldn't be surprised if they do more parking for the cars instead

(That's exactly what they are going to do in Naklua, a car park at the place of the actual park)

That car park building at Bali Hi was built on the only park in down town Pattaya, and it had plenty of trees.

[redwood1]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every time I went it was packed with Russians, and I believe that the Russians have not yet returned.

 

Yes but also they raised food prices A-LOT.....People just don't want Hi-so food in a food court......They killed the vibe of the place by dividing it up in sections....Its not even easy to get a bloody drink now and the selection sucks.....People have voted with their feet...

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, JensenZ said:

That's a very short-sighted assessment of the pre-covid era. When malls are built, they are looking to the future and growth of the tourism industry, not expecting it to fail. Do you think new mall developments should not compete with existing malls for market share? There are ups and downs in tourism industry, but they look long term. Your "too many malls" comment makes no sense either. Central Mall is the most successful of them, and that came AFTER Garden Plaza and Central Marina, both which predated it by many years. It came after and destroyed them. If most cities held your ideas, there would never be any advancement at all. Speculation is what makes the modern world tick. Competition is a good thing.

Had they stopped at Central it would have been fine. Pattaya can only accommodate so many potential customers, so till enough accommodation was built in down town Pattaya there were never going to be enough customers for all the malls.

 

I have no idea why some were not built in Jomptien, which I believe has none.

[kingofthemountain]

59 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Yes but also they raised food prices A-LOT.....People just don't want Hi-so food in a food court......They killed the vibe of the place by dividing it up in sections....Its not even easy to get a bloody drink now and the selection sucks.....People have voted with their feet...

imo they were thinking they couldn't fight against the big new and cheap food court in T21

 

So they decided to do something different and more ''hi so'' with small cosy spaces and high prices

 

Of course a total failure at the end, if you want to pay high prices you don't go to a food court !

 

They should have kept the good old one, just doing some necessary but limited changes (Like to replace the dirty and destroyed tables and sofas and having better paid\educated people at the ticket boot, they were rude and with no smiles) 

 

My bet is a ''big head'' has decided all this mess from above instead of listen to the customers or the people on the ground, a Thai classic

Edited May 31, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That car park building at Bali Hi was built on the only park in down town Pattaya, and it had plenty of trees.

Yes it's really a shame and they are going to do the same thing in Naklua

as i said it seems the city hall hates the trees

They have also cut down a lot of them on the beach and along beach road, they were supposed to be replaced, and of course they are not

 

If i think for a slogan for Pattaya city hall, it will be

''more cement, less trees'' !

Edited May 31, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

People just don't want Hi-so food in a food court

Not entirely true. On the floor below the MBK food court ( the best food court in Thailand IMO ) there was a high class food court with hiso prices and it was always busy when I passed by.

It was just by the escalator up to the cheap food court.

[newnative]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Had they stopped at Central it would have been fine. Pattaya can only accommodate so many potential customers, so till enough accommodation was built in down town Pattaya there were never going to be enough customers for all the malls.

 

I have no idea why some were not built in Jomptien, which I believe has none.

     Why?   A little thing called synergy.  Discounting the bit players like Avenue and The Bay, you've got Festival with Hilton at one end and T21 with Grande Centre Point Hotel at the other.  The two malls, pre-covid, were both strong draws.  If you're a major hotel, where do you want to be in Pattaya?  Likely somewhere near these two.  Festival got the ball rolling and T21 coming triggered big changes to the north Pattaya Beach area.

    So, we now have Hilton, Hard Rock Hotel, Mytt, Siam@Siam, Dusit, Ozo Hotel, Brighton, Grand Palazzo, Holiday Inn, Amari and the new Amari addition, and others.  Plus three more large highrise hotels under construction: Grande Centre Point 2 and another across the street from it, and a large hotel going up across from Festival.  And, of course, the more popular an area is, the more other businesses want to be there.  

[Inala]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Errrrrr, the on line bit was only to arrange a meeting for "flesh to flesh" contact. That may have changed after corona given lack of farangs actually IN Thailand, but IMO it'll change back when the customers return. IMO hanging around in some grotty bar pretending to like fat sweaty farangs must have been very boring.

 

Errrrr, partly right. The girls in Soi 6 etc are actually doing online shows......for the thousands of punters stuck outside Thailand. Agree, it will change back.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, newnative said:

     Why?   A little thing called synergy.  Discounting the bit players like Avenue and The Bay, you've got Festival with Hilton at one end and T21 with Grande Centre Point Hotel at the other.  The two malls, pre-covid, were both strong draws.  If you're a major hotel, where do you want to be in Pattaya?  Likely somewhere near these two.  Festival got the ball rolling and T21 coming triggered big changes to the north Pattaya Beach area.

    So, we now have Hilton, Hard Rock Hotel, Mytt, Siam@Siam, Dusit, Ozo Hotel, Brighton, Grand Palazzo, Holiday Inn, Amari and the new Amari addition, and others.  Plus three more large highrise hotels under construction: Grande Centre Point 2 and another across the street from it, and a large hotel going up across from Festival.  And, of course, the more popular an area is, the more other businesses want to be there.  

I understand where you are coming from and in a perfect world......................................

 

Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world and the best laid plans and all that. Given there are far better places in Thailand/ the world than a dirty, congested, polluted town with a small dirty beach and sea unsafe to swim in, with a council that can't stop it flooding after a mild shower, things may not work out the way the investors think it will.

 

Pattaya was popular for one thing, and the zillion baht question is will they still come if it's just the beach to attract them?

 

Undoubtedly the weekend crowd from Bkk will sustain some sort of life in downtown Pattaya, but is that enough without the Chinese masses?

[kingofthemountain]

7 minutes ago, Inala said:

 

Errrrr, partly right. The girls in Soi 6 etc are actually doing online shows......for the thousands of punters stuck outside Thailand. Agree, it will change back.

mmm you are a bit optimistic

from what i can see on their best days

they have a dozen of viewers on the other side of the cam

 

And they are less and less bars and girls doing that week after week

moving in front of a cam like a stupid doll 10 hours\day in a tiny short time room

for less than 100 bahts\day it's not really the dream life, i don't even talk about 

the dialogue abuses the girls have from some trolls western guys bored in their mom basement