UK State Pensions - yet another sick joke?

[petertucker48]

Don't forget everyone if we are out of the country (UK) we do not pay them "Any" of the VAT (25%) needed to purchase all non essentials.

I,m not happy with the situation but that's life.

NB: don't forget we did not pay for "our" pension.

We paid for our parents etc.

Life's a B***H

[ChrisKC]

What I find interesting is that us expats, especially those who are elderly and more predisposed to illness, are not using the free health service in the UK, that we paid for in taxes and National Insurance all our working lives; instead we are paying through Insurance and directly here in Thailand. It simply is not recognised that this fact alone saves the UK Health Service many millions of pounds every year.

 

Until 2016, death of an expat in Thailand meant his Thai widow would receive a lump sum of B200,000.

 

It is important to know that if expats are in the what is now the old Europe, agreements were in place for UK pensions to be paid same as if in UK. And I know, unless anything has happened recently, that the Philippines was party to an agreement with UK that pensions would rise in line with UK.

 

With loss of right to increases in pension rates each year adding to exchange rate that was once B75 to the pound to the now B44.70 (that we know went as low as 37 or 38) and with inflation in Thailand since 2005, we UK expats have lost an enormous amount of disposable income.

 

My problems start if they decide to cancel pension rights altogether for expats!

 

.

Edited July 9, 2021 by ChrisKC
typo

[billzant]

6 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

 

 

2. I believe, there is nothing stopping any foreign UK resident going back to the UK to reset their pension level back to normal and then returning say to Thailand with bigger income. 

 

Richard, please clarify details on this. I understood that if I returned to the UK (or went to the Phillipines!) my pension would be unfrozen and I would receive the UK rate. I assumed that if I then returned to Thailand I would go back to the frozen rate. I am unlikely to do it but would like to know what I would have to do.

Go back to the UK, and apply for a pension in the UK. How long would that take? How long would I have to live there?

On returning to Thailand would I have to re-apply for my pension from Thailand?

 

[ivor bigun]

4 hours ago, bradiston said:

People have taken it all the way to the EU court of Human rights, via all the UK courts, and got absolutely nowhere. The fallacious argument is basically, the government can't afford to do it for the 400,000+ pensioners living abroad with frozen pensions, stating it would cost £500m. Which begs the question, what would happen if all 400,000 moved back to the UK? The government would have to cough up, and, of course, would find a way to so do. The money's there, it's just pensioners aren't a priority, just a bunch of old codgers the likes of Handoncock and co can kick around. But, how much are the savings to the NHS in not having to take care if 400,000 old age pensioners should the need arise? Far in excess of £500m I'll wager.

you can thank Tony the criminal Blair for that he was the one who made sure the EU voted it down.

[siftasam]

I sympathize with the NZ pensioners BUT Khun Surasak is surely correct:

 

'Many paid into private pensions knowing the state handout would not be an amount to live off. I cannot believe you didn't know what would happen to your pension having decided to leave NZ. That as they say, was your choice.'

 

And let's get this correct. We are not whining and whingeing. The 'Nanny State' as some call it was created by US with OUR money.

 

"I will 'lend' (!) you my hard earned money if you promise to pay it back - and the government did promise (once upon a time) (yes, it turned out to be a fairy story!)"

[fredscats]

38 minutes ago, billzant said:

Richard, please clarify details on this. I understood that if I returned to the UK (or went to the Phillipines!) my pension would be unfrozen and I would receive the UK rate. I assumed that if I then returned to Thailand I would go back to the frozen rate. I am unlikely to do it but would like to know what I would have to do.

Go back to the UK, and apply for a pension in the UK. How long would that take? How long would I have to live there?

On returning to Thailand would I have to re-apply for my pension from Thailand?

 

You do not need to go anywhere,do it from Thailand,inform you are returning,but unsure of return,leave it at that Use VPN

Need permanent UK address to maintain

Edited July 9, 2021 by fredscats

[Kinok Powell]

3 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

What has your anti-Brexit tirade got to do with frozen pensions? Especially when UK pensions are not frozen for UK citizens living in the EU.

 

“The UK and EU have agreed that the UK will continue paying and uprating state pensions to UK citizens living in EU countries after Brexit – and vice versa,” said James Walsh, of trade body, the Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association.

The low pension rate for UKers being so low has nothing at all to do with the EU or with Brexit, which makes your post rather idiotic

 

Signed

An anti-Brexiteer

Great reply.

Signed

A Brexiteer.

[VBF]

9 hours ago, rickudon said:

As for 2., i was told that you get the full payment when in the UK, but if you leave it goes back down again ...... they don't miss a trick.

You were told incorrectly look at the DWP website... a little searching will find it.

 

Having said that, I agree with @RichardColeman when he said "That said, I still believe it should be a set amount for ALL recipients, not matter where they live." especially if they've contributed into the system all their working lives, then retired to Thailand

[Letseng]

10 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

What has your anti-Brexit tirade got to do with frozen pensions? Especially when UK pensions are not frozen for UK citizens living in the EU.

 

“The UK and EU have agreed that the UK will continue paying and uprating state pensions to UK citizens living in EU countries after Brexit – and vice versa,” said James Walsh, of trade body, the Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association.

The low pension rate for UKers being so low has nothing at all to do with the EU or with Brexit, which makes your post rather idiotic

 

Signed

An anti-Brexiteer

My husband was just told that there will be no increase this year. We  were in EU at deadline for Brexit because we didn't want to lose medical insurance covered by S1. Still get this but not pension increase.

[steve187]

3 hours ago, Letseng said:

My husband was just told that there will be no increase this year. We  were in EU at deadline for Brexit because we didn't want to lose medical insurance covered by S1. Still get this but not pension increase.

are you talking about the April 2021 increase, which country do you live in 

[Andycoops]

We all chose to move here and so should know the consequences of doing so.

No one here as a UK non resident can vote, get free NHS (officially) when in the UK or receive the annual state pension increase.

It goes with the territory.

[bradiston]

18 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

We all chose to move here and so should know the consequences of doing so.

No one here as a UK non resident can vote, get free NHS (officially) when in the UK or receive the annual state pension increase.

It goes with the territory.

You can still vote

 

https://www.gov.uk/voting-when-abroad

[fredscats]

30 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

We all chose to move here and so should know the consequences of doing so.

No one here as a UK non resident can vote, get free NHS (officially) when in the UK or receive the annual state pension increase.

It goes with the territory.

Wrong.Can get pension increase,plus free NHS......depends on communication...and as I see above,vote

Edited July 10, 2021 by fredscats

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, rickudon said:

As for 2., i was told that you get the full payment when in the UK, but if you leave it goes back down again ...... they don't miss a trick.

Don't tell them you have left, also be aware that if they find out, and they won't unless someone dobs you in, they cannot make you pay it back.

But keep in mind, that only applies to the state pension, and not any pension credits or private pensions.

[NoshowJones]

On 7/9/2021 at 11:26 AM, bkk6060 said:

Good luck with it.

I never understand why and how the UK people put up with it.

Just a terrible system screwing over pensioners.  What ever happened to all the money?

 

The UK has the worst state pension in the developed world- in 2016 it was only worth 29% of average income. It is striking how much less that is than other countries: the EU average is 70.5% meaning that UK pensions receive more than two times less than comparable countries

"What ever happened to all the money?" It helps to fund overseas aid, all the illegals that arrive every day, MP's second mortgages, and of course the money they save from the frozen state pension increases if you live in certain countries abroad, including Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It only goes back down if you tell the DWP you have left the U.K.

Then don't tell them unless you want to join the "scared of your own shadow" brigade.

[Henryford]

I could sort of understand (just) if they stopped the inflation overseas for all but what makes me mad is that they give it to some like the USA and EUSSR but not others, like us.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Henryford said:

I could sort of understand (just) if they stopped the inflation overseas for all but what makes me mad is that they give it to some like the USA and EUSSR but not others, like us.

Is this down to reciprocal agreements......where similar numbers of pensioners live in each other's countries.......no idea.....just guessing!

[jomtienisgood]

On 7/9/2021 at 11:26 AM, bkk6060 said:

Good luck with it.

I never understand why and how the UK people put up with it.

Just a terrible system screwing over pensioners.  What ever happened to all the money?

 

The UK has the worst state pension in the developed world- in 2016 it was only worth 29% of average income. It is striking how much less that is than other countries: the EU average is 70.5% meaning that UK pensions receive more than two times less than comparable countries

Do they have a choice???

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's because so much money is spaffed up the wall on benefits and migrants

ewe

[hotandsticky]

45 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Don't tell them you have left, also be aware that if they find out, and they won't unless someone dobs you in, they cannot make you pay it back.

But keep in mind, that only applies to the state pension, and not any pension credits or private pensions.

 

 

Not quite.

 

DWP can make you pay it back AND they have control over your payments. I have only ever come across one case where that happened and most cases the DWP will buy a plausible excuse why they weren't notified earlier.

 

 

Benefit payments are a different matter.

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Not quite.

 

DWP can make you pay it back AND they have control over your payments. I have only ever come across one case where that happened and most cases the DWP will buy a plausible excuse why they weren't notified earlier.

 

 

Benefit payments are a different matter.

Go and read the DWP website, also be aware I am only referring to the state pension.

[nauseus]

17 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

What I find interesting is that us expats, especially those who are elderly and more predisposed to illness, are not using the free health service in the UK, that we paid for in taxes and National Insurance all our working lives; instead we are paying through Insurance and directly here in Thailand. It simply is not recognised that this fact alone saves the UK Health Service many millions of pounds every year.

 

Until 2016, death of an expat in Thailand meant his Thai widow would receive a lump sum of B200,000.

 

It is important to know that if expats are in the what is now the old Europe, agreements were in place for UK pensions to be paid same as if in UK. And I know, unless anything has happened recently, that the Philippines was party to an agreement with UK that pensions would rise in line with UK.

 

With loss of right to increases in pension rates each year adding to exchange rate that was once B75 to the pound to the now B44.70 (that we know went as low as 37 or 38) and with inflation in Thailand since 2005, we UK expats have lost an enormous amount of disposable income.

 

My problems start if they decide to cancel pension rights altogether for expats!

 

.

Agree with your sentiments re NHS etc. but the pound...no...try 33 Baht to the pound like I had to for a while.

[hotandsticky]

17 hours ago, petertucker48 said:

Don't forget everyone if we are out of the country (UK) we do not pay them "Any" of the VAT (25%) needed to purchase all non essentials.

I,m not happy with the situation but that's life.

NB: don't forget we did not pay for "our" pension.

We paid for our parents etc.

Life's a B***H

 

 

Standard UK VAT rate is 20%.

 

 

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Go and read the DWP website, also be aware I am only referring to the state pension.

 

 

Yes, I understand that.  I also know one expat in Thailand who had to repay. In his case he claimed whilst in Thailand which was a 'false declaration' and when DWP found out that he was in Thailand he had to repay 2 years of increased payments.

 

Had he done what another friend did (and said he had only recently decided to fully retire to Thailand) I suspect he would have got away with it. 

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Yes, I understand that.  I also know one expat in Thailand who had to repay. In his case he claimed whilst in Thailand which was a 'false declaration' and when DWP found out that he was in Thailand he had to repay 2 years of increased payments.

 

Had he done what another friend did (and said he had only recently decided to fully retire to Thailand) I suspect he would have got away with it. 

If this one expat says he is paying back two years of his "state pension," I would bet there is something else involved that he has not said.

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Yes, I understand that.  I also know one expat in Thailand who had to repay. In his case he claimed whilst in Thailand which was a 'false declaration' and when DWP found out that he was in Thailand he had to repay 2 years of increased payments.

You've seen the letter?

It sounds unlikely ................

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You've seen the letter?

It sounds unlikely ................

..............says someone who has been here 30 years and is starting to panic ......(joking)

[ivor bigun]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

..............says someone who has been here 30 years and is starting to panic ......(joking)

if you have been here claiming for donkeys years and are now very old with all your cash in Thailand,what  can they do except cut your pension ,especially if your to old or ill to travel back ?

[jojothai]

22 hours ago, Surasak said:

Don't ever think they don't know, and it much easier for them now.

 

23 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It only goes back down if you tell the DWP you have left the U.K.

 

20 hours ago, fredscats said:

In what way,please explain,not pie in the sky stuff either,but actual information

 

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Then don't tell them unless you want to join the "scared of your own shadow" brigade.

Things have changed a lot in the last 5 years.
The Common Reporting Standard or "CRS" requires all banks and financial institutions to confirm your tax residence and tax ID. It is a regulatory requirement and you are liable for the declaration.

All of you with UK, EU, Channel Islands or even Hong Kong accounts would by now have been required to comply.
It has been implemented across most western countries, even China has joined.
But not yet in Thailand. They have agreed to join, but the final date appears to be postponed. Perhaps because of Covid.

The DWP has direct contact with the Inland Revenue. They take control of the pension from the Inland Revenue six months before the pension date. Any final AVCs you pay go to IR with DWP coordinating.
The Inland Revenue will have access to your Tax Residence information through any of the banks or financial institutions you use, unless they are outside the CRS. For Thailand that is currently the case.

Generally you make or made payments through a financial institution to IR and/or you are paid pension to one.
If all your banks and financial dealings are done through Thailand institutions you may think great - you will be invisible.
That may hide you, but it also exposes you to potential IR investigation. If the IR check and have no information for any UK banks or financial Institutions and you are being paid overseas its clear that you are potentially non -resident.
Then you are most likely to go on their list to be investigated.
Don't think this is an idle risk.
Even for small amounts, they may check a lot more than you think and claim that you are liable for tax or fraud. 

I know one person who went back to live in the UK, went back abroad for some time, then returned to UK.
They picked him out as suspicious and managed to check many records he thought they had no access.
Accused him of tax evasion and fined him heavily.

Edited July 10, 2021 by jojothai
add info