Thailand to combine Sinovac, AstraZeneca vaccine doses to boost protection - minister

[Chelseafan]

2 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Israel saying that efficiency of Pfizer in preventing symptomatic disease dropped to 64% against Delta but still highly effective against serious disease and hospitalization.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-confirms-vaccine-less-effective-against-delta-variant-eyes-third-dose/

 

That's about spreading of the virus rather than deaths, Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

 

[Chelseafan]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Actually there's plenty of evidence that shows that the vaccines are less effective against the Delta variant

 

How well COVID-19 vaccines work against the Delta variant, according to the best available data

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-protection-pfizer-moderna-astrazeneca-2021-7

 

That said, even though the leading vaccines are somewhat less effective against infection, they still are effective. Even more so against hospitalizaton and death.

 

It's death prevention  I was on about.

 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, shdmn said:

With more countries being added almost daily now that are not mentioned in that article, such as Germany now.  

But it's kind of a one-off and in countries where the AZ vaccine was not used, such as the USA, approval could be slow. In fact, the Nature article you linked to, said that scientists would precede cautiously and that large scale studies were warranted. Although that opinion was not universal. Personally, I think the need for caution is overblown. But even if my opinion were printed on paper, it might be worth the paper it was printed on but no more than that.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Israel saying that efficiency of Pfizer in preventing symptomatic disease dropped to 64% against Delta but still highly effective against serious disease and hospitalization.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-confirms-vaccine-less-effective-against-delta-variant-eyes-third-dose/

Epidemiologists mostly think that figure was too low. But they do believe that Pfizer is less effective in preventing symptomatic disease.

[smedly]

34 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, I read the Reuters link that shdmn provided and it says many counties are allowing mixed inoculations in the case where the AZ vaccine was administered first. This because of questions about blood clots.

you are twisting this for the sake of argument - rather silly 

 

either way fully vaccinated means 2 doses of any single vaccine unless it is approved otherwise (J&J) - there are no examples of  two single doses of vaccine being recommended from two different manufacturers that are not from the same family of operation and even then that is yet to be fully researched 

 

Currently fully Vaccinated means at least two doses of the same vaccine - period

Edited July 12, 2021 by smedly

[placeholder]

Just now, smedly said:

you are twisting this for the sake of argument - rather silly 

 

either way fully vaccinated means 2 doses of any single vaccine unless it is approved otherwise - there are no examples of a two single doses of vaccine being recommended (unless J&J) from two different manufacturers that are not from the same family of operation and even then that is yet to be fully researched 

 

Currently fully Vaccinated means at least two doses of the same vaccine - period

It means whatever the health authorities in said countries decide what it means. If Germany says AZ + Biontech means you are fully vaccinated, then you're fully vaccinated and entitled to all the privileges that being fully vaccinated encompasses. There ain't no pope  when it comes to vaccines.

[smedly]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It means whatever the health authorities in said countries decide what it means. If Germany says AZ + Biontech means you are fully vaccinated, then you're fully vaccinated and entitled to all the privileges that being fully vaccinated encompasses. There ain't no pope  when it comes to vaccines.

is that one dose each ?

 

if so do both the vaccines have same mode of operation 

 

There is no evidence that supports what Thailand is doing with one shot AZ  and one shot sinovac which is what this topic is about 

 

There is evidence that supports one shot AZ and one shot mRNA but that is not what Thailand is doing

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by smedly

[webfact]

AstraZeneca to be 2nd dose after Sinovac 1st dose, booster for medics

 

REUTERS/Lee Smith

 

On Monday, Thailand’s National Communicable Disease Committee (NCDC) approved the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine as a second dose for people who have already received just their first dose of the Sinovac vaccine, with an interval of 3-4 weeks between doses.

 

The British-Swedish AstraZeneca vaccine will also be used as the third “booster” shot for medical personnel, the majority of whom have been inoculated with China’s Sinovac, according to Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul, in his capacity as the chair of the NCDC meeting.

 

The move comes after several medics and others, fully inoculated with Sinovac’s CoronaVac, were still infected by the virus which causes COVID-19, expert medical findings that the Chinese vaccine is ineffective against the virulent Delta variant and calls for mRNA booster shots for medics who are most at risk of infection.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/astrazeneca-to-be-2nd-dose-after-sinovac-1st-dose-booster-for-medics/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-07-13

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow ASEAN NOW on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[RichardColeman]

8 minutes ago, webfact said:

expert medical findings that the Chinese vaccine is ineffective against the virulent Delta variant

I guess this is what happens when you give money to Generals with absolutely no medical knowledge 

[jerrymahoney]

Thailand to Follow Sinovac With Astra Vaccine in World First
By Randy Thanthong-Knight
July 12, 2021, 6:25 AM EDT

 

Thailand will start administering the Sinovac Biotech Ltd. and AstraZeneca Plc shots as part of one Covid-19 vaccine regime, in a world first aimed at increasing protection against the more contagious delta variant.

 

The Southeast Asian nation will start giving the China-made Sinovac vaccine as a first shot to be followed by Astra three to four weeks later, health ministry officials said at a briefing near Bangkok Monday.

 

The decision is based on three separate local studies, which showed that following Sinovac with Astra elicited an immune response that’s as high as using two doses of Astra 12 weeks apart, according to Opas Karnkawinpong, director-general of Thailand’s Department of Disease Control. The new regime will allow the nation to quickly ramp up immunity against the delta variant, Opas said.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-12/thailand-to-follow-sinovac-with-astra-vaccine-in-world-first

[harada]

10 hours ago, Thailand said:

Absolute panic has set in with the gov running around like headless chickens.

How is it possible to get something so wrong?

 

The power of money of course!

This is what happens when you have a “government” stacked with those aligned to a certain military faction and their cronies instead of intelligent people, the situation in Burma now is a prime example of how things can turn out.

[Blumpie]

Boost protection?  Sinovac does basically nothing.  It's more like get protection.  

[Benmart]

13 hours ago, jazzdog32095 said:

Go ask everyone out sitting on that beach suffering from hunger if they're greedy and then if you survive get back with us.

I agree. I am not qualified, nor interested in playing the judge of the needy or greedy. I am thankful that I can share and am in good health.

[wensiensheng]

I think the point that has drifted out of focus on a lot of posts is that Thailand is not talking about using one shot of  AZ and one shot of an mRNA vaccine. That combo HAS been used in some countries and as, as someone posted, it’s what Angela merkel did.

 

what Thailand is doing, to combat the delta strain,  is using one dose of sinovac and one dose of AZ. The issue here being that 2 doses of sinovac is not perceived as enough protection, so it’s being cut to just the one, and AZ added.

 

but AZ is perceived as only marginally better than sinovac against delta, or at least it’s own effectiveness is drastically cut.

 

in layman’s terms it’s weakest vaccine plus next less weakest vaccine.

 

whereas, AZ plus an mRNA would in layman’s terms be described as second least effective plus one of the “best”.

 

so if sinovac is a 1, and AZ a 2, and an mRNA a 3, what Thailand is doing adds up to 3. The other combo being used in other countries adds up to 5.

 

I deliberately haven’t gone into detail about actual percentage protection provided etc etc, I’m just trying to point out why people may perceive what Thailand is doing as being less than ideal. Basically it’s the inclusion of sinovac as one of the constituents in the combo.

[wensiensheng]

3 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Thailand to Follow Sinovac With Astra Vaccine in World First
By Randy Thanthong-Knight
July 12, 2021, 6:25 AM EDT

 

Thailand will start administering the Sinovac Biotech Ltd. and AstraZeneca Plc shots as part of one Covid-19 vaccine regime, in a world first aimed at increasing protection against the more contagious delta variant.

 

The Southeast Asian nation will start giving the China-made Sinovac vaccine as a first shot to be followed by Astra three to four weeks later, health ministry officials said at a briefing near Bangkok Monday.

 

The decision is based on three separate local studies, which showed that following Sinovac with Astra elicited an immune response that’s as high as using two doses of Astra 12 weeks apart, according to Opas Karnkawinpong, director-general of Thailand’s Department of Disease Control. The new regime will allow the nation to quickly ramp up immunity against the delta variant, Opas said.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-12/thailand-to-follow-sinovac-with-astra-vaccine-in-world-first

That article you linked.

 

it says the boost in protection came from 3 local studies in Thailand. For some people, that’s a question mark right there, rightly or wrongly.

 

it also says that from the 3 local studies it was noted that a sinovac and AZ jab gave protection equal to 2 AZ shots. A couple of points on that. Firstly, for some, 2 AZ doesn’t provide the same level of protection as an mRNA vaccine because AZ itself is less effective against delta. Secondly, the studies are so short in time frame, no one knows if the level,of protection is maintained.

 

finally, the article gives no detail of the 3 local studies, size of sample, time frame, participant ages etc.

 

basically, the article merely says what the Thai doctor says, which isn’t much and is unverified.

 

not saying the sinoAZ mix is no good, just saying that the article you posted doesn’t prove it is

Edited July 13, 2021 by wensiensheng

[RayD]

Come on guys, be positive. Thailand now has the opportunity to be the first country to acquire natural herd immunity to Covid. Win!

 

If you get sick, walk it off.

[jerrymahoney]

As to the post a notch above, his name is Michael R. Bloomberg but people call him Mike. I'd guess he'd love to here from you as to his shortfalls of his reporting.

Edited July 13, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[harada]

Cocktail sir, we call this one the Dr Anutin, enjoy. ????

[colinneil]

Just now, RayD said:

Come on guys, be positive.

 

If you get sick, walk it off.

I am always positive, so you reckon if i get sick walk it off...... I wish.????????

[vandeventer]

13 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Guess they are going to continue to use the current stocks of Sinovac for a first jab regardless......... rather than throw it away.

It seem like there is no use by date on Sinovac and it keeps growing and growing. Soon they will tell us it's great in coffee.

Edited July 13, 2021 by vandeventer

[dougiemac52]

So basically another case of make it up as they go along. You couldn't write a script for thailand at present with all the happenings at the Sandbox. That's why I'm going to ASQ then travel 

[Buriramfelang]

14 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow very interesting.  So, those that have only one Sinovac will now get a Astrazeneca?

Sounds good but have there been sufficient studies on the safety/efficacy of this mix of vaccines?  

 

Why throw away all those Sinovac shots they got for free ????

Sounds like they're crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. ????????

[smedly]

I've been doing some reading on this and there have been studies that support the use of AZ (one dose) and an mRNA vaccine (one dose) 

 

But that is "NOT" what Thailand is doing 

 

The so called studies they claim to have done are were exactly - lack of details remains an issue with this no matter what they claim 

 

 

[heybuz]

12 hours ago, gearbox said:

World's first...however in EU and Australia people got AZ + different shot when AZ was dumped. Not sure about all the combinations but Pfizer was widely used. So there is already a precedent of mixing vaccines.

AZ hasn't been dumped, its still being given .

[heybuz]

31 minutes ago, harada said:

Cocktail sir, we call this one the Dr Anutin, enjoy. ????

or the dr do nuthin

[hotchilli]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

BANGKOK (Reuters) -Thailand will use AstraZeneca Plc's COVID-19 vaccine as a second dose for those who received Sinovac's shot as their first dose in a bid to increase protection, it said on Monday

Just drop the Sino rubbish, it's been proven to be useless against the Delta variant... 

[hotchilli]

14 hours ago, greenmonkey said:

Now they are really in the s#%t! This is the govt basically admitting that sinovac is useless but thats all we got so tough. Seriously, will the Thai's stand for this!? I hope not.

If they start to use AZ as a booster for all those in the medical field and as a second jab after Sino-s**t that's going to push back the vaccine roll-out for everyone else...

I think the 120 day open Thailand has just hit a a brick wall.

[4MyEgo]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

There have been no studies specifically on mixing Sinovac and AstraZeneca released, but a growing number of countries are looking at mix-and-match of different vaccines or giving a third booster dose amid concerns new and more contagious variants may escape approved vaccines.

Why not, it's ALL one big experiment at the moment, however I do have a question for Anutin, will he be getting a booster with AZ ?

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[Isaan sailor]

14 hours ago, grego49 said:

Will all the brown envelopes have to be returned,

Yes, however those brown envelopes will be empty.

[Isaan sailor]

Need to find good use for those millions of doses of SinoVac.   Could they vaccinate the soy dogs?