Renewing UK driving licence after 10+ years expired.

[Satcommlee]

Hello, like many (I hope) having lived in Thailand for 16 years, I have allowed my UK licence to expire in April 2011.  (Expired due to requiring new photo I guess)

 

Can anyone advise if there are any problems renewing after such a long time? The only thing that has held me back was the fact I did not have a UK address (which is a requirement for UK licence)

 

Also as someone who passed their test before 1997, my licence allows me to drive up to 7.5T vehicles, whereas those who passed after 1997 do not. (Grandfathered entitlement)

 

 

The old licence says I can drive these up until 2045 (Birthday redacted)

 

So can anyone confirm that after re-applying for a licence after so many years, did you keep your entitlement to drive 7.5T vehicles  (Category C1)?

 

Much appreciated for any info from real life experience - already done the google thing to death..

 

[johng]

7 minutes ago, Satcommlee said:

So can anyone confirm that after re-applying for a licence after so many years, did you keep your entitlement to drive 7.5T vehicles  (Category C1)?

 

I'm pretty sure the  licence will include all your entitlements...as the licence it's self does not expire as such  just that they made a new "money making scheme"

of having to update the photo every 10 years.

Also be aware that using an "expired"  photo licence  can result in a 1000 pound fine !!!!  see money making scheme !

 

You can renew online and have them use your latest passport photo which they find themself

the "government portal" web site to do this is a bit of a kerfuffle to set up  as they want to send  authorisation codes to a UK mobile phone number  obviously the licence will be sent to a UK address too.

[Satcommlee]

Thanks John,

 

I was kind of hoping that is the case too but after reading some info from the DVLA website, they talk about having to renew by conventional mail for C1 entitlement after 10 years along with medicals etc.. but it is not clear whether this applies to those grandfathered.

 

 

[johng]

I renewed online a few years ago, before expiry  got C1 entitlement no extra documents required then  but maybe things have changed ?

Also they added motorcycle entitlement that had been omitted from my previous photo licence which had in turn caused me to have to do the complete Thai motorcycle test 

[blackcab]

Troll posts and replies have been removed.

[Upnotover]

I renewed in 2017.  Photocard had expired many years (don't recall how many exactly) previously.  C1 is on my new licence.  Licence valid since 1979.

[Satcommlee]

5 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

I renewed in 2017.  Photocard had expired many years (don't recall how many exactly) previously.  C1 is on my new licence.  Licence valid since 1979.

Thanks, this is what I want to hear, much appreciated.

[Tim16]

 

Michael Pace, partner and head of motor law and PI team, Andrew & Co LLP

Despite a new driving licence design coming into effect this month, there remains one area of it that’s still likely to cause drivers and fleet managers problems: the 10-year photograph expiry date.

This past year, in my capacity as a motoring law solicitor, I’ve heard of a number of instances where 4b on the licence has caused confusion. It’s the date at which your photo expires or, as the reverse of the licence puts it, ‘licence valid to’.

However, this is where the confusion starts as it suggests the licence itself expires on that date, which it doesn’t.

To find the actual expiry date, look at column 11 on the back of your licence where the date printed commonly coincides with your 70th birthday.

Worryingly, the ‘confusion’ has led to some police forces threatening to impound vehicles for not having valid driving licences, and to driving instructors turning away motorists from driver improvement courses because insurance companies claimed they were not covered without ‘valid’ licences.

Having contacted the DVLA, I can confirm that the date at 4b is when only the photo expires. Your licence remains valid until such time as the DVLA revokes it, and that requires written notice.

Contrary to some police officers, out-of-date photos do not invalidate licences.

The actual offence committed is failing to notify DVLA of up-to-date information, contrary to s.99.5 of the Road Traffic Act. Not, as has been suggested, ‘driving otherwise than in accordance with a driving licence’.

Failing to update your photo is a non-endorseable offence although it could carry a fine.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Tim16

[sapson]

Very confusing as 4b in my case is 17-05-12.

 

with clear note on back 4b licence valid to.

 

column 11 is 02-01-29

 

If i go back to the UK would this licence be valid at an airport car rental desk or for a new insurance policy, clearly with an incorrect address now and ancient photo?

[Satcommlee]

3 minutes ago, sapson said:

Very confusing as 4b in my case is 17-05-12.

 

with clear note on back 4b licence valid to.

 

column 11 is 02-01-29

 

If i go back to the UK would this licence be valid at an airport car rental desk or for a new insurance policy, clearly with an incorrect address now and ancient photo?

Having spoken to rental companies in the past, I was told my Thai licence would be valid for rentals, although I never actually tried it.

[sapson]

1 minute ago, Satcommlee said:

Having spoken to rental companies in the past, I was told my Thai licence would be valid for rentals, although I never actually tried it.

 

I just have my British one which i thought was long since out of date with the words crystal clear valid to date long since expired.

 

But if the head of a motoring law firm confirms its still valid its pretty conclusive.......have rented cars here in Thailand before and thought they were being lenient in not querying the date.

[Neeranam]

I'm confused. Is my license valid? 

 

I have never had one with a photo, it says until 2035.

 

I've driven in the UK and no one has ever asked to see it. I could always show my Thai one. 

 

 

[johng]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I have never had one with a photo, it says until 2035.

Yes the old style paper licence is still valid.. but only up until you get a plastic one with photo on which then has to be renewed every 10 years to "update the photo"..they do "confusingly"

send you a new paper "Counterpart Driving Licence" to go with the plastic but once you have the plastic one there is no going back to just paper.

 

I think most places now will not accept  just the paper license as any proof of identity.

 

[chalawaan]

You will keep your entitlements. That's why you cant find Google answers, there are none.

The new licence is now a single card, the paper bit you can toss. They have not sent counterparts since at least 2013.

They will take your passport mugshot electronically from the one on file at the UK passport office if your passport is current.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by chalawaan

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, johng said:

Yes the old style paper licence is still valid.. but only up until you get a plastic one with photo on which then has to be renewed every 10 years to "update the photo"..they do "confusingly"

send you a new paper "Counterpart Driving Licence" to go with the plastic but once you have the plastic one there is no going back to just paper.

 

I think most places now will not accept  just the paper license as any proof of identity.

 

OK, thanks, so I don't need one. 

I always carry my Thai ID and license. 

r

[richard_smith237]

Pre  1997 licence...  renewed online and sent to UK address. Original endorsements are not removed. 

 

The AM and A endorsements were used to get a Thai Motorcycle licence !! (Thai DLT do not know that its only for a slowped).

It looks like I can also drive the small red bus that screams up and down Thonglor !! (D1) 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by richard_smith237

[canthai55]

In Canada if you have a Class one - tractor trailers (HGV in UK) - you can drive any vehicle except for motorcycles.

Is the same in UK ?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/19/2021 at 12:28 PM, Satcommlee said:

On 7/19/2021 at 12:21 PM, Upnotover said:

I renewed in 2017.  Photocard had expired many years (don't recall how many exactly) previously.  C1 is on my new licence.  Licence valid since 1979.

Thanks, this is what I want to hear, much appreciated.

You're still going to need a UK address and, if you're not resident in the UK, as you clearly are not, your current UK licence, expired or not, is officially invalid as would be a renewed one if you lied about your address, i.e. provided the DVLA with a false UK address.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You're still going to need a UK address and, if you're not resident in the UK, as you clearly are not, your current UK licence, expired or not, is invalid as would be a renewed one if you lied about your address, i.e. provided the DVLA with a false UK address.

Its definitely a ‘grey area’....  

 

I moved out of the UK when I was 22 - Always kept my Bank Address etc at my Parents house, I also use my sisters address for various things.

My UK DL is registered to my Parents Address and always has been. 

 

I know that legally, I should give up my UK driving licence as soon as I have a driving licence in an other country. But this is simply impractical and causes knock on issues. 

 

For example: For work, driving in Dubai - I can use my UK Driving Licence to obtain a UAE licence, it takes a few mins. People from other countries (i.e. Thailand / India etc) have to do a full course and take tests etc - its a real hassle. 

 

Keeping the UK licence is significant benefit - but the only downside is the penalty points and fines for speeding on a UK licence whereas if I only had a Thai Licence I would not receive the points (and suspect the fine would go straight to credit card when renting, or my parents when driving their car).

[Satcommlee]

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Keeping the UK licence is significant benefit - but the only downside is the penalty points and fines for speeding on a UK licence whereas if I only had a Thai Licence I would not receive the points (and suspect the fine would go straight to credit card when renting, or my parents when driving their car).

This not strictly true, you will receive the points as they are attributed to either a Skeleton record at the DVLA or your actual Licence record even if dormant.

[mrfill]

 

If more than two years has passed since your driving licence expired, you may be made to retake your driving test in order to get a new licence. This is especially the case if your licence has expired due to age (driving licences need to be renewed when you reach seventy years of age) or for medical reasons. For these, you may also have to pass a medical. In other cases, you can simply apply for a new licence without problem, although the DVLA will often want to know why your licence has been expired for so long.

[mrfill]

On 7/19/2021 at 10:21 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Pre  1997 licence...  renewed online and sent to UK address. Original endorsements are not removed. 

 

The AM and A endorsements were used to get a Thai Motorcycle licence !! (Thai DLT do not know that its only for a slowped).

It looks like I can also drive the small red bus that screams up and down Thonglor !! (D1) 

 

 

 

Category A is for motorcycle of unlimited size. However, with the 79(3) code it means that it applies to tricycles only.

So you could chase the Thonglor buses in a Reliant Robin quite legally...

[clivebaxter]

Only had one since 1991, ran out this year. Wont bother renewing it as the last time I drove was- 1991 !

[peleid]

On 7/19/2021 at 1:32 PM, Neeranam said:

I'm confused. Is my license valid? 

 

I have never had one with a photo, it says until 2035.

 

I've driven in the UK and no one has ever asked to see it. I could always show my Thai one. 

 

 

Is a Thai Driving Licence valid for driving in the UK?

[johng]

1 minute ago, peleid said:

Is a Thai Driving Licence valid for driving in the UK?

Quite worryingly  yes it is  !  if its a five year ..not too sure about the "provisional" 2 year one.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, peleid said:

Is a Thai Driving Licence valid for driving in the UK?

Yes, it's valid for 1 year if you move to the UK.

[johng]

On 7/19/2021 at 6:00 PM, canthai55 said:

you can drive any vehicle except for motorcycles.

Is the same in UK ?

Don't know for sure but think  the HGV licence would only cover you for that category   in any case I don't think many people jump straight to HGV  without progressing  from a car first.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/25/2021 at 1:13 PM, richard_smith237 said:

On 7/25/2021 at 1:03 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

You're still going to need a UK address and, if you're not resident in the UK, as you clearly are not, your current UK licence, expired or not, is invalid as would be a renewed one if you lied about your address, i.e. provided the DVLA with a false UK address.

Its definitely a ‘grey area’....  

 

I moved out of the UK when I was 22 - Always kept my Bank Address etc at my Parents house, I also use my sisters address for various things.

My UK DL is registered to my Parents Address and always has been. 

 

I know that legally, I should give up my UK driving licence as soon as I have a driving licence in an other country.

 

Keeping the UK licence is significant benefit - but the only downside is the penalty points and fines for speeding on a UK licence whereas if I only had a Thai Licence I would not receive the points (and suspect the fine would go straight to credit card when renting, or my parents when driving their car).

It definitely is not a grey area.   

 

If you are not a UK resident you cannot legally have a UK licence.  If you do still have one, and if push came to shove legally, it would be considered invalid if you're not a UK resident.  Giving a false address to have/keep a licence (even family's address) is illegal regardless of the fact that many do it.

 

"I know that legally, I should give up my UK driving licence as soon as I have a driving licence in an other country".

That is only true if you are no longer a UK resident.   If you are still a UK resident you can retain your UK licence in addition to any licences issued by other countries, they do not affect the validity of your home licence.

 

"..the only downside is the penalty points and fines for speeding on a UK licence whereas if I only had a Thai Licence I would not receive the points (and suspect the fine would go straight to credit card when renting, or my parents when driving their car)".

Don't kid yourself!  If you present a foreign licence when you're stopped by the UK police and they want to issue a ticket or prosecute, you will be arrested initially to process having the offence dealt with in court.   

 

You will also be questioned about your clearly being British yet showing them a Thai licence.   Don't think for a moment that they won't ask you if you have a UK licence and check you out in that circumstance.   if you say you have one, that's the one they'll want, if you say that you don't, you'll have some explaining to do when they see that there is one issued in your name at a UK address

Edited July 27, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, mrfill said:

This is especially the case if your licence has expired due to age (driving licences need to be renewed when you reach seventy years of age)

No, licences do not get renewed at age 70.    The licence holder has to complete a health declaration, a self-assessment that you're fit to drive.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, peleid said:

Is a Thai Driving Licence valid for driving in the UK?

Yes.