Pattaya: Dead as a Dodo

[BigStar]

23 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Ok what's special about Pattaya then?......A few malls a few tourist attractions (if they are not bankrupt by now) and and and nothing else....

Absolutely no point in discussing this subject w/ our TAT: TVF members cause all they see and think about is sex for farangs. Been done many times, always ignored, met with specious solipstic arguments, bigotry, selection bias, and quickly forgotten. Soon the same assertion is repeated again by the same posters after their silly arguments have been thoroughly shredded--year after year. Just cannot believe it's not the 90s anymore. Still waiting for Central to fall down or go bankrupt as predicted 'cause them mongers staying in fleabag hotels won't spend there.????

 

In 2019, Bangkok ranked 1st surpassing Paris and London in Mastercard's list of "Global Destination Cities Index 2019" with 22.78 million visitors. Phuket was 14th with 9.89 million visitors and Pattaya 15th with 9.44 million visitors.

    --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

Unusually, TAT: TVF has blessed these numbers as accurate in order to better enjoy portraying the economic devastation and doom under COVID. Note that they don't include the domestic tourists, which now make up about 25%.

 

So, when some of the 9 million int'l tourists return, and the domestics, the vast majority of whom aren't sex tourists, you might ask some of them why they visited--suggest starting in the lobbies of the Hilton, Holiday Inn, and Centara Grand Mirage--and argue that they don't really want that.????

Edited August 11, 2021 by BigStar

[thailandsgreat]

I left in March. The exit permits that had been needed to leave from the bus station had just been scrapped.

 

So some bars around Buhakao, LK, Soi Honey are open now. About the same when I left.

 

7/11:s had seating areas closed. Are they still closed? 7/11-ship on South Pattaya was a nice place to sit down. Is the seating area still closed?

 

As I remember the food court in Big C South Pattaya only did take out, but the one in Central Pattaya was open. Are both open for dine in now?

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by thailandsgreat

[johng]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sure, Pattaya really needs more malls.

No I don't agree...Jomtien could do with a couple though 

[jacko45k]

44 minutes ago, champers said:

If malls and/or casinos are not built, what do you think will be?

Hotels, condos, of course. A few car parks would be nice.

[redwood1]

30 minutes ago, johng said:

No I don't agree...Jomtien could do with a couple though 

Nonsense Pattaya always needs more malls, just look at Bangkok....Bangkok is absolutely saturated with malls, yet they keep building more......Pattaya only has about 10 malls...It's just shameful how deprived the people of Pattaya are mall wise...

Edited August 11, 2021 by redwood1

[jacko45k]

56 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Nonsense Pattaya always needs more malls, just look at Bangkok....Bangkok is absolutely saturated with malls, yet they keep building more......Pattaya only has about 10 malls...It's just shameful how deprived the people of Pattaya are mall wise...

You could have a game of football in a couple of them..... what a waste of money. Feel sad when I visit the Harbor Mall.

[roger101]

I always forget about Harbor Mall. I went there when it first opened and thought it was rubbish so have never been back.

Edited August 11, 2021 by roger101
Spelling

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, roger101 said:

I always forget about Harbor Mall. I went there when it first opened and thought it was rubbish so have never been back.

I used to go there for Mr DIY, now they are everywhere so no point going, plus location is poor, difficult to exit turning right

[thailandsgreat]

4 minutes ago, roger101 said:

I always forget about Harbor Mall. I went there when it first opened ans thought it was rubbish so have never been back.

Me too. Maybe it gets in the shade of Big C Central Pattaya, it lies a bit from the street w/ a parking in front of it.

[rott]

On 8/10/2021 at 2:25 PM, redwood1 said:

Ok what's special about Pattaya then?......A few malls a few tourist attractions (if they are not bankrupt by now) and and and nothing else....

How many resorts are special.? Why would Pattaya have to be, it's been getting along fine so far. 

[newnative]

7 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Can't just have condos and hotels though

Agree.  I think an Asiatique Prime was being planned for Pattaya, pre-covid--hopefully it will still go forward at some point.  

[morrobay]

Just now, morrobay said:

Indeed a big Asian supermarket like the Ranch 99's And also some Asian strip malls to fill in. https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/99-ranch-market.html

 

[Harsh Jones]

13 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Why not take the family and the kids to Walking Street? The Russians dont seem to have a problem taking their families...

 I meant what i said with no irony. Pattaya is full of good family fun. But nah. I'll skip Walking Street. I might run into an X live-in from 6-8 years ago.????

[bendejo]

On 7/22/2021 at 5:26 AM, Kerryd said:

The PPP was in office from 2007-2011 and it was around 2009/2010 that there started to be a noticeable shift in the tourist demographic in places like Pattaya as more Chinese tour groups (and those **** buses) started appearing as well as a large influx of Indian tourists.

It was around that time that Chinese vacation tourism began making it's mark across SEA.  Places that for years had Western backpackers as their main clientele started focusing on the Chinese tourists.  I noticed this in Malaysia and Lao.  Chinese New Year time meant "brace yourself, here they come!"  I recall one Loy Krathong in Pattaya where a contingent of them was heading to the shore with their offerings rudely pushing all others aside.  Nice people.

I would guess that there were just as many  Indian "family" tourists as those packs of Indian lads infamous for trying to get the girls to service five of them for the price of one.  And then there were the Russians flying in from various parts of the former USSR who were content to just hang around the food courts in the supermarkets.

Yes, there will continue to be a Pattaya, but it will not be the same.  Gone will be the flesh pit reputation of the VN War era and the sex tourist destination, but of course there will be a skin district, like nearly every place else in the world, but will not be as in-your-face as it was.  The thing about casinos makes sense.

 

Recently read something about the development of Hainan island, looks like the Chinese gov't trying to provide a tropical paradise destination so their citizens needn't travel abroad.  If they want gambling there is always Macau.

 

 

[champers]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

It was around that time that Chinese vacation tourism began making it's mark across SEA.  Places that for years had Western backpackers as their main clientele started focusing on the Chinese tourists.  I noticed this in Malaysia and Lao.  Chinese New Year time meant "brace yourself, here they come!"  I recall one Loy Krathong in Pattaya where a contingent of them was heading to the shore with their offerings rudely pushing all others aside.  Nice people.

I would guess that there were just as many  Indian "family" tourists as those packs of Indian lads infamous for trying to get the girls to service five of them for the price of one.  And then there were the Russians flying in from various parts of the former USSR who were content to just hang around the food courts in the supermarkets.

Yes, there will continue to be a Pattaya, but it will not be the same.  Gone will be the flesh pit reputation of the VN War era and the sex tourist destination, but of course there will be a skin district, like nearly every place else in the world, but will not be as in-your-face as it was.  The thing about casinos makes sense.

 

Recently read something about the development of Hainan island, looks like the Chinese gov't trying to provide a tropical paradise destination so their citizens needn't travel abroad.  If they want gambling there is always Macau.

 

 

I think the Chinese do want their people to travel abroad. Countries; Thailand included; have grown to be dependant on Chinese tourists and their money as well as their ownership of properties and factories. This is a global phenomenen.

Apropos of nothing, I see that the Bangkok Post today published the top 50 countries by Covid infections; Thailand is ranked at 36. China? Not on the list, by looking at Worldometer they rank 104. How did that happen? A conspiracy theorist might think they maybe had an effective vaccine exclusively for themselves. The huge field hospital in Wuhan at the start of the crisis was built in a matter of days. You might have thought that it would have needed months of advance planning, but apparently not. All materials, specialised medical equipment and the workers to build and staff it were readily at hand.

[WhatsNext]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Did any overseas tourist visit Pattaya to specifically go there? It's just a mall.

It was meant as a joke...... 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, johng said:

No I don't agree...Jomtien could do with a couple though 

I've said before that a couple of the malls built in Pattaya should have been in Jomtien instead. I like good malls, but they could have stopped with the Mike, Big C and the Royal Garden malls.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, rott said:

How many resorts are special.? Why would Pattaya have to be, it's been getting along fine so far. 

It wasn't pre corona, if one could compare to when it actually was popular with farangs in the 90s. It may have had a lot of package tourists from China, but they didn't spread the wealth.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, BigStar said:

So, when some of the 9 million int'l tourists return, and the domestics, the vast majority of whom aren't sex tourists, you might ask some of them why they visited--suggest starting in the lobbies of the Hilton, Holiday Inn, and Centara Grand Mirage--and argue that they don't really want that.

That, IMO, isn't the real question. Did Pattaya ever need to transit to the mythical "family destination" that was going to bring billions to certain pockets?

There are miles of almost deserted beaches along the Gulf coast south of Chumpon that could have had modern resort towns built from scratch.

Pattaya was a victim of it's own success IMO, as it put illusions of baht into the eyes of the greedy. It was built on sex and had not much other worth it for western tourists, other than golfers, IMO.

Obviously, almost everything built since the previous beach promenade was destroyed has turned to <deleted>- the marina, the stupid decision to turn the road to the lighthouse into a boat park, the hideous building in front of the lookout, the idiotic car park built on the Bali Hi park, the disintegrating Bali Hi pier are just some of the examples of civic vandalism inflicted on Pattaya in the name of greed.

 

I am not going to guess what Pattaya will become in the future, as far too many variables to consider eg WILL 9 million int'l visitors return? That depends on many things eg travel costs; accommodation costs; things to do other than nightlife; the corona thing actually ending, rather than mutating into some repeat of 1918; political stability in LOS, political stability in western countries; etc.

Que sera sera and all that.

[rott]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It wasn't pre corona, if one could compare to when it actually was popular with farangs in the 90s. It may have had a lot of package tourists from China, but they didn't spread the wealth.

Who says it wasn't doing OK pre Covid.? Do you have the figures to prove this.?

 

My point is that it was doing well enough, and that few holiday resorts are special so Pattaya could get along without being special. But so far it is special. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, rott said:

Who says it wasn't doing OK pre Covid.? Do you have the figures to prove this.?

 

My point is that it was doing well enough, and that few holiday resorts are special so Pattaya could get along without being special. But so far it is special. 

 

I and others that were actually there many years ago do.

Do you have the figures to support your opinion?

 

IMO Pattaya stopped being special about the time they destroyed the previous superior beach promenade.

Edited August 12, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[rott]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I and others that were actually there many years ago do.

Do you have the figures to support your opinion?

 

IMO Pattaya stopped being special about the time they destroyed the previous superior beach promenade.

Well I've been here since 1997 so I think I am qualified to comment. I actually don't have the figures to prove anything just the evidence of my own eyes and experience. I and others who are still here and were here when Covid started will doubtless offer different opinions. 

 

I have not heard of many going elsewhere in search of a better promenade. 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, rott said:

Well I've been here since 1997 so I think I am qualified to comment. I actually don't have the figures to prove anything just the evidence of my own eyes and experience. I and others who are still here and were here when Covid started will doubtless offer different opinions. 

 

I have not heard of many going elsewhere in search of a better promenade. 

Have to go back several years before 1997 to know what Pattaya was like in it's real glory days.

 

I never said people were leaving Pattaya in search of the perfect promenade. I used the destruction of the previous, superior version as the event after which things IMO really started to go downhill in Pattaya.

 

Seems a shame that Pattaya can't build a decent promenade when even little Phrao is able to have a far superior promenade to the disaster that is the Pattaya one.

Edited August 12, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[scubascuba3]

27 minutes ago, rott said:

Who says it wasn't doing OK pre Covid.? Do you have the figures to prove this.?

 

Do you remember the massive growth in Chinese and Indian tourists?  you know the ones everyone moans about

[redwood1]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I and others that were actually there many years ago do.

Do you have the figures to support your opinion?

 

IMO Pattaya stopped being special about the time they destroyed the previous superior beach promenade.

I agree 100%........The promenade was like the heart of Pattaya...Hardly anyone recognizes or gives much importance to the promenade.....

 

They killed the beach vib in 2013 ( hey same year they passed federal reserve act in 1913 in America....) The dead beach vib, spread more and more through Pattaya after 2013....

 

Now it looks like they will finish the job killing off the beach with the new promenade makeover... 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

I agree 100%........The promenade was like the heart of Pattaya...Hardly anyone recognizes or gives much importance to the promenade.....

 

They killed the beach vib in 2013 ( hey same year they passed federal reserve act in 1913 in America....) The dead beach vib, spread more and more through Pattaya after 2013....

 

Now it looks like they will finish the job killing off the beach with the new promenade makeover... 

I wasn't aware they are redoing the promenade.

IMO the big trees were the best part of the old promenade. They provided shade for people to sit on the benches and it was always a pleasant place to while away some time. I used to get a sandwich from 7 11 and have my lunch while people watching.

Unfortunately the trees were massacred.

[johng]

36 minutes ago, rott said:

I have not heard of many going elsewhere in search of a better promenade. 

There was a news piece a while ago just before the covidiocy struck about Thai visitors   not being too impressed with Pattaya beach/promenade one of the things quoted was lack of seating and shade trees.  those interviewed also said Bangsean and Barng Saray where better.

[redwood1]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't aware they are redoing the promenade.

IMO the big trees were the best part of the old promenade. They provided shade for people to sit on the benches and it was always a pleasant place to while away some time. I used to get a sandwich from 7 11 and have my lunch while people watching.

Unfortunately the trees were massacred.

I agree the Trees were wonderful....I feel thankful to have spent many happy days on the old promenade...

 

Here are some drawings of the new promenade.....It looks like ALL  as in every last shade tree will be chopped.......What little vib that remains will be finished....

 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by redwood1

[redwood1]

4 minutes ago, johng said:

There was a news piece a while ago just before the covidiocy struck about Thai visitors   not being too impressed with Pattaya beach/promenade one of the things quoted was lack of seating and shade trees.  those interviewed also said Bangsean and Barng Saray where better.

Yea......Like they have not read countless comments over the years of people very very unhappy with no sitting or shade trees....They know very well what people want, but they want a sterilized, lifeless beach......And that's exactly what the new beach makeover will be.......Even more sterilized and lifeless than now.....

[MyFriend You]

On 8/10/2021 at 3:38 PM, johng said:

Don't know if this has been posted in this thread yet apologies if it has been.

 

Seems this very rich group is having a bet on Pattaya to the tune of

8.1 billion baht !!

This group bought the Sigma Resort at the far south end of Jomtien beach.

 

"In February, she also acquired the 287-room Sigma Jomtien Pattaya Hotel for 550 million baht."

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rgluckman/2021/07/08/thai-real-estate-giant-bets-big-on-tourism-rebound-with-32-billion-growth-plan/?sh=30d9cfdc3ecd

 

 

"Transforming Pattaya—a former recreational playground for U.S. servicemen during the Vietnam War with a sleazy reputation as a sex tourism destination—seems like a high-stakes gamble. But Wallappa doesn’t think so, saying she believes that a new international airport proposed to be built by 2023 and planned rail links connecting Pattaya to Bangkok’s two airports, plus a monorail that will run right by the AWC Center, could turn it into a global getaway like Phuket.

“Pattaya has a lot of image problems,” says Jeremy O’Sullivan, head of research at real estate consultancy Savills in Thailand. “But they are one of the only companies that could pull something like this off.” Nikhom from Horwath HTL agrees, noting that while AWC has the money and could pull in the right partners to revamp Pattaya, success will largely depend on how quickly public infrastructure develops. Thailand, after all, is known for delays."

 

Just wondering if she has the clout to close Walking Street, Soi 6, Soi Buakao, and all then other sleaze bar areas.........until then, Pattaya will never be the "Singapore" they want it to be...........I will have reincarnated in the next life before that happens.  Gambling will be voted in, the place will turn into a playground for the rich, and a hunting ground for the bad guys w/the BIB's hands out.  TIT.         Peace