Study shows AZ+mRNA vaccination regimen is as good as two doses of mRNA

[anchadian]

2 minutes ago, TheFishman1 said:

 I would just like to be able to get a vaccine in Thailand TIT

So you keep telling us.

 

I believe you're in CM. Call your local hospitals.

[Nojohndoe]

8 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

"Combined, these studies show improved immunogenicity outcomes with heterologous dosing and suggest possible superiority of this strategy over homologous prime–boost regimens for cellular responses and neutralization of variants"

 

Note the word superiority - not "as good as".

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01463-x

"possible" superiority !

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

All one can do is roll the dice of life and "it is what it is", whether it is meant to be or not. Being scared of being vaccinated with peer reviewed and studied vaccines and combinations is only for the timid.

I agree with you 100%

 

As you may recall, I declined to go to my appointment for AZ back on 7 June, and the decision I made at the time for me was the correct decision, based on what was happening on and around that time, e.g. people dying from blood clotting and people getting blood clots, so that put me at ease.

 

The above said, more and more people had had it now and with more and more research, it has shown that it is extremely rare, i.e. 1 in a million, 

 

I ended up booking Moderna thereafter for October, that said, with more AZ becoming available now and the above, I registered at the local yesterday for the AZ, and when I get the call, will "roll the dice" and if all goes well which I anticipate, will then get the Moderna in October, i.e. if I am not one of the 1.1 million that the Thai Red Cross managed to take off of the original order of 5 million by the private hospital consortium.

 

At the end of the day, as this virus is spreading much quicker now, I would rather take my chances with AZ and then Moderna, as for the 2nd Moderna, maybe I can get that at a later date, like 6 months as a booster or just forget about it as it's all been paid for.

[Pedrogaz]

11 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So 11 weeks between your AZ jab and then the MRNA jab.  Wonder if the Pfizer or Moderna will he Available as a second jab when I am due for my second AZ jab on September, and then I wonder if Thailand will allow it.

Ryan, if you are prepared to let yourself be injected by someone based on these 3 paragraphs written here, especially amongst all the confusion with vaccines, then you maybe want to develop a bit of skepticism when you read the news. 

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, Scrotobike said:

Mot being a medical researcher I have no idea what is correctly peer reviewed and rigorously challenged. Happy to have such an expert here on what ever this un-peer reviewed site is (formally known as Thai-Visa)

You know, you don't need to be an expert to do a search using a few words like "Nature Medicine journal"

Unless, of course, you don't really want to know.

Nature Medicine

Nature Medicine is a monthly peer-reviewed medical journal publishing research articles, reviews, news and commentaries in the biomedical area, including both basic research and early-phase clinical research covering all aspects of medicine...

As with other Nature journals, there is no external editorial board, with editorial decisions being made by an in-house team, although peer review by external expert referees forms a part of the review process.

Its 2019 impact factor was 36.130, making it the highest-cited research journal in preclinical medicine.^[2]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_Medicine}

Edited July 28, 2021 by placeholder

[Enzian]

On June 22 I had AZ in Bangkok. Five days later I decided to leave for the US. and I did on July 15. Yesterday the 26th I had a jab of Pfizer in Oakland. My doctor said in effect to forget about the AZ and start over, pretend it never happened. He saw no problem. Next month I get shot 2 of Pfizer. BUT: today I was wiped out, couldn't move, if I'd had a balcony I might have used it. But late afternoon my condition did a 180. I've had other issues so I don't know if it was the vax, or what the coming hours and tomorrow may bring. But I have no regrets.

[Nojohndoe]

While not saying that countries that made pre-emptive supply contracts for massive excesses are yet in receipt of said vaccines it can be safely assumed that other than production shortfalls excused by "unavoidable issues" or restructuring production facilities those contracts are considered obligatory and enforceable.

Due to the adverse campaigns which have disproportionately effected acceptance of vaccination for a variety of reasons involving disinformation, overblown attention to adverse reactions, politicalization , etc which have stalled many vaccination programs which in turn has increased actual held reserves with further contractual supplies incoming.

Victim to this situation are the many countries that for various reasons remain extremely limited in access to a monopolized market.

Token distributions by the Monopolists IMPO are disgusting !

The current Delta  variant is causing renewed havoc with rampant spread and while the focus is so fixed on it it need be considered very possible that an even worse variant  might arise as a result which could render current vaccines very reduced in efficacy.

Those that consider my opinion sad are well within their right to but I hope they are truly aware of the potential reality of extended disaster.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-stockpili-idUSKBN2AJ00F

 

 

[hotchilli]

12 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

An immunogenicity study, conducted in Germany, shows the mixed use of viral vector and mRNA vaccines induces a significantly high level of anti-spike and neutralizing antibodies, close to the level induced by two doses of mRNA vaccine, according to Professor Dr. Manop Pithukpakorn, head of the Excellence Centre for Genomics and Precision Medicine at Siriraj Hospital

With so many fantastic centres of excellence and expert professors it bewilders me why Thailand has to buy vaccines from China when it's obviously so well positioned to design and manufacture it's own supply.

 

[CANSIAM]

12 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So 11 weeks between your AZ jab and then the MRNA jab.  Wonder if the Pfizer or Moderna will he Available as a second jab when I am due for my second AZ jab on September, and then I wonder if Thailand will allow it.

 

 

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Add in a redhead and I'll be able to swill Bangkok khlong water without any side effects

Think the majority of redheads here are LB, be careful........

[CANSIAM]

12 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So 11 weeks between your AZ jab and then the MRNA jab.  Wonder if the Pfizer or Moderna will he Available as a second jab when I am due for my second AZ jab on September, and then I wonder if Thailand will allow it.

I'd go for the MRNA on top of my #1 AZ come September as well, probably next to impossible with the Pfizer allotment / target groups plan...... maybe a MRNA booster December/January ? 

[sungod]

12 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So 11 weeks between your AZ jab and then the MRNA jab.  Wonder if the Pfizer or Moderna will he Available as a second jab when I am due for my second AZ jab on September, and then I wonder if Thailand will allow it.

Take it in the spirit intended....

[dutchman]

Why it does nt supprice me a thai doctor professor come out with this anouncement,

It is thinkable it is an safe face project for not order qualified the best vaccince thinkable and proofen with less

compliactions

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Pedrogaz said:

Ryan, if you are prepared to let yourself be injected by someone based on these 3 paragraphs written here, especially amongst all the confusion with vaccines, then you maybe want to develop a bit of skepticism when you read the news. 

Always up for looking at the research, studies and science along with consulting my Daughter and her partner who is also a doctor working in a Covid unit.

[chilli42]

8 hours ago, Blumpie said:

Then don't get it.  

Anti-tax movement has had the same mantra since it's inception.  Nobody cares if you get it or your don't but you.  

 

Where do I sign up for that anti-tax movement?

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, Enzian said:

On June 22 I had AZ in Bangkok. Five days later I decided to leave for the US. and I did on July 15. Yesterday the 26th I had a jab of Pfizer in Oakland. My doctor said in effect to forget about the AZ and start over, pretend it never happened. He saw no problem. Next month I get shot 2 of Pfizer. BUT: today I was wiped out, couldn't move, if I'd had a balcony I might have used it. But late afternoon my condition did a 180. I've had other issues so I don't know if it was the vax, or what the coming hours and tomorrow may bring. But I have no regrets.

I had the same mix you did.

 

For a couple of days after the Pfizer jab I did feel like fecal matter.
 

Been fine since. 

[DefaultName]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

With so many fantastic centres of excellence and expert professors it bewilders me why Thailand has to buy vaccines from China when it's obviously so well positioned to design and manufacture it's own supply.

 

Because they've been told to.

[GroveHillWanderer]

11 hours ago, sucit said:

And when do we get to know stuff like, oh I don’t know, if the vaccines will have severe health impacts down the line? Oh we can’t talk about that, right? Because nobody can disprove it yet so it’s not true, wait. 

There's no reliable evidence of a vaccine causing long term adverse side effects.

 

As @edwardandtubs points out, there's no biological mechanism for this.

 

The way a vaccine works, is by provoking the body's immune system into creating antibodies and killer T-cells, that combine to destroy what they perceive as a foreign invader. These defence mechanisms completely eliminate the components of the vaccine within a short time, so if vaccines do cause adverse effects, it's always within several weeks or so after administration because after that, there's nothing left that could still cause a problem.

 

The article below talks about this:

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93166

 

As a couple of the scientists quoted in it say:

 

Quote

There's also the fact that if a vaccine does have a side effect, it will likely show up in the first 6 to 8 weeks of use, Offit said."

 

Of all the vaccines we use, in infancy, childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, none of them have any long-term effects," Schaffner said.

 

"No vaccine has shown side effects 2 to 5 years later. That doesn't exist because there's no biological reason for it."

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[Isaan sailor]

Just get rid of the Sinovac, bring in more AstraZeneca, and for cripes sake, bring in Pfizer and Moderna.

[MrJ2U]

Thats an interesting and positive study.

 

It'll help until one day the government decides to purchase more mRNA vaccines as the tax paying population and medical establishment  is pleading with them to do.

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

The mixing of the Adenovirus vaccines and MRNA vaccines has been an item that has been looked at by many in the scientific community.  I liken it to mixing Codeine with Ibuprofen to create a medicine, or in this case a vaccine that works better and increases the efficacy.

In principle, mixing almost any two, similarly effective vaccines is likely to prove beneficial. The human immune system is such a complicated, multi-factorial system that no one vaccine can hope to stimulate all parts of it equally strongly.

 

So if for instance, one vaccine is better at invoking a humoral response and one is better at simulating a cellular response then by combining them you stand to get the best of both worlds.

Edited July 28, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[placnx]

14 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

interesting but as AZ - AZ gives near or actual 100% (?) Protection from Death & Hospital for all Variants, the ten fold increase in antibodies from AZ - MRNA is relevant only for reduced symptoms, if you catch it after being fully vaxed ?

The public health goal is to prevent infection and transmission, and a high level of neutralizing antibodies is needed, especially for Delta, the Indian variant.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

thanks placnx, clear now. article / research should be stating such prominently. tbh as (a fit) 65 I was focused on not dying ( job done with my AZ vax). catching it & symptoms therefore only inconvenient ( for me).

was missing the social importance of the increased antibodies.....

with increased chance then of conveniently not catching it / no symptoms.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

With apologies to Maslow, here’s my personal Hierachy of Covid Needs (“Not” Basis), as a quite fit 65 year old, with no conditions, which is maximally met by western vax, in combo or not :-

 

Not Dying

Not Ventilated

Not Hospitalized

Not Long Covid

Not Catching It

Not Symptomized

Not Transmitting

Not Anti Science

Not Anti-Vaxxing

 

 

[Rimmer]

A post denigrating Chinese vaccines and referring to them with a derogatory name has been removed.

Whilst it may be less effective in certain cases ie Delta strain it is by no means useless.

At the end of the day this is a Thai government sponsored vaccine and the forum and or yourself can get in trouble for comments like this so stop it.

[oslooskar]

5 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Yes, thanks to the U.S.A. 1.5 mm Pfizer will arrive tomorrow.

And thanks to the Turks for creating the Pfizer vaccine.

[JupiterRising]

What were the ‘two cohorts’ for the tests?

Mice, rats, pigs, monkeys?

or even Bats?

[Cake Monster]

if the AZ Vaccine was never married up to the mRNA vaccines, there would be little need for the production Plant to be in Thailand.

It could just be moved else where in SE Asia.

Thailand has the capacity for 5 -6 Million dose of AZ per Month, but where are the other 5-6 Million mRNA doses coming from to keep the promise of 10 Million doses per Month to the people of the Country.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

 I would just like to be able to get a vaccine in Thailand TIT

Me too, plus one for my wife and 1 for my 17 year old son.

[Virt]

Hopefully Thailand and other countries accept cross vaccines if second shot is mRNA. 

 

Here in Denmark we have 150.000 people that has got AZ and then Pfizer as second shot. 

 

The reason is Denmark started using AZ, but stopped using AZ after a little while due to lethal side effects. The same reason why we never started using J&J in the official danish program. 

 

Canada must have quite a few cross vaccinated too, because they asked WHO to accept cross vaccinations after travelles had issues. 

 

Personally it's the reason why we can't return to Thailand on normal vacation.

I got 2 x Pfizer, but girlfriend had

1 x AZ and 1 x Pfizer because she was one of those early vaccinated due to her line of work. 

 

[garygooner]

Just really hoping that a new more severe & contagious variant doesn't appear resulting in all present vaccines offering little or no protection.