Anyone else tired of the nonsense, and contemplating leaving Thailand?

[kynikoi]

3 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

its quirks

How simple-minded.

 

Glad it works for you. Millions of Thai in poverty, economy is trashed, democracy has left the room and not coming back. Hundreds of young people have had their lives ruined for asking for the same rights you were blessed to be born into.

 

Quirks

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, symiotic said:

it sounds like you've outgrown the country... money, image having the most followers on Instagram...  it's gets relatively less fulfilling...  things in Western countries: meaningful discussion, health and longevity, individualism and entrepreneurialism become increasingly of more value.  I'm always reminded of the Thai word for evil 'chûua' is very closely associated with deviate/ divert time from the 'normal' (used in demarcating time temporarily e.g. chûua mohng).

That is possible, but hard to say. One of my persistent disappointments with Thailand, has been the lack of local Thai male friends. I speak a bit, but am nowhere near fluent, so that is an issue. But, even the Thai guys who speak English seem to have very little interest, curiosity, or motivation to get to know foreigners. Image means less than zero to me, on any level. And I despise social media, so having followers is irrelevant. I do miss meaningful discussions with friends, but I get that alot with frequent phone calls. Granted, not the same as sharing a very nice bottle of wine, and shooting the bull.

 

Change can be healthy. It is a big step, and alot of work. But, it might be a positive move. We shall see. Gonna take a one month trip to Spain, as soon as the lockdowns are over, and the quarantine ends here, which will hopefully be within a reasonable period of time, as long as the current saboteurs start doing some real work. Will see how it feels to be in civilization again. 

 

 

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, wasabi said:

I've typically been agnostic to the political situation in Thailand which I expect will eternally be tumultuous. I didn't pay it much mind until recently because it didn't effect me. that is until Covid when it put my life at risk. For that reason my wife and I currently in the USA. But it has been our plan to split our time between the USA and Thailand long before Covid. Only difference is now our stay in the US is indefinite until the situation is brought under control in Thailand. We will definitely return when the time is right, but splitting our time between the two countries helps balance out the frustrations that go with either place. I am aware it is a luxury that we have this option to split our time, but since we do we take advantage of it and it works for us. 

It is a major luxury to be able to do that. I have been spending 2 months or longer in the US, for the past 15 years, at least twice a year, plus alot of regional and domestic travel around here. It helps alot. No doubt cabin fever is a factor, that is driving me crazy right now. 

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

My advice would be wait 18-24 months and see what happens. Thailand is not going to go back to the same as it was before in my opinion. The people - already unhappy with the political system - have seen the total failure of appointing generals to run the country during a pandemic. If there does not seem to be any movement in the political structure on the horizon by then I'd advise leaving as not even complete failure will remove them and things will only get worse.

 

 

 

Good advice. It would likely take at least a year anyway, as getting a visa to live in Spain is not easy. Harder than it is here. You need to show an actual signed lease of an apartment or house, before you can even apply! And the documents require an FBI criminal background check (hope they do not find the millions I stole from those banks- LOL), and far more. So, it would be awhile. Gonna spend a bit of time there and see how it feels. And see if anything changes here. It is a big fantasy of mine to see these despots deposed, and see the youth take over, with a fresh vision for the nation. Part of my frustration stems from an inability to see how that will take place. But, I sure hope it happens. In all the time I have been here, I have never seen the very conventional older generation as angry as they are now, at the government. That is a good thing, and a big step for Thailand. 

[kwonitoy]

I had tickets booked Mar 26 2020 for my son and I to move permanently to Canada, condo rented, car reserved everything in order. Mar 23 the e-mails started canceling my flights as the world went into shutdown. I thought it best to stay put in Udon for the time and as Thailand handled the first year of Covid better than Canada I was quite happy staying here.

Now of course Canada is approaching 70% full vaccination and Thailand is a complete shotshow. We will be leaving as soon as safely possible. 

The purpose of relocating was to give my son a Canadian upbring, and hopefully better education possibilities in Canada, he's currently 10 years old and very anxious to move.

 

So our moving was planned before Covid and is not driving our future plans, but to answer your OP, Yeah after 20 plus years being based out of Thailand I am tired of the constant nonsense and stupidity. Sometimes its funny but the constant drumbeat of foolishness has done my head in. see below

 

I didn't wash my truck when I came home yesterday, and now it has Covid I guess

 

 

[Ralf001]

27 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

How simple-minded.

 

Glad it works for you. Millions of Thai in poverty, economy is trashed, democracy has left the room and not coming back. Hundreds of young people have had their lives ruined for asking for the same rights you were blessed to be born into.

 

Quirks

You know damn well that is not what I was implying but now that you mention it.... the very same  quirks many many others countries suffer, including the one I was born into.

[spidermike007]

10 hours ago, habuspasha said:

For reasons expressed  by Spider, I may not become an expat.  I have loved Thailand since first sight in 1978, loved my Thai GF since first sight in 2014, almost bought our house to live together and planned my retirement together shortly after that.  Recently, the generals and covid have made me think half here and half there might be smarter.  I've always loved my life in Manhattan and my GF has always insisted on staying in Thailand.  She knows nothing about my life here, but now for the first time when I suggest we live in NY, she says yes. 

I lived in NYC for many years. One of the worlds greatest cities, and cultures. I miss it. Moved to California, and it was someplace I never fell in love with, like NYC. Amazing place. And the open minded attitude you are seeing in your GF is more common now. They started a Facebook page for young Thais trying to get out, and make a life for themselves overseas, and a million members joined. What does that say about their degree of hopelessness? It really <deleted> off the thugs. Not our narrative! How dare you seek a way out!

 

Half the time there and half here would be a dreamlike existence. You may be onto something. Best of both worlds, for sure. 

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, kwonitoy said:

I had tickets booked Mar 26 2020 for my son and I to move permanently to Canada, condo rented, car reserved everything in order. Mar 23 the e-mails started canceling my flights as the world went into shutdown. I thought it best to stay put in Udon for the time and as Thailand handled the first year of Covid better than Canada I was quite happy staying here.

Now of course Canada is approaching 70% full vaccination and Thailand is a complete shotshow. We will be leaving as soon as safely possible. 

The purpose of relocating was to give my son a Canadian upbring, and hopefully better education possibilities in Canada, he's currently 10 years old and very anxious to move.

 

So our moving was planned before Covid and is not driving our future plans, but to answer your OP, Yeah after 20 plus years being based out of Thailand I am tired of the constant nonsense and stupidity. Sometimes its funny but the constant drumbeat of foolishness has done my head in. see below

Totally agree. Canada is a lovely place on alot of levels. Right now, a number of places are looking very appealing. Just may have this place in the rear view, at some point in the near future. Doubt I would ever look back, though we have had a very good run here, and would continue to visit often for my wife's family, friends here, and vacations.

 

But, it would sure be nice to visit, and know we did not have to tolerate the nonsense full time!

[spidermike007]

32 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

How simple-minded.

 

Glad it works for you. Millions of Thai in poverty, economy is trashed, democracy has left the room and not coming back. Hundreds of young people have had their lives ruined for asking for the same rights you were blessed to be born into.

 

Quirks

I would change that to hundreds of youths locked up facing ridiculous, drummed up charges, and millions of common Thais devastated by the financial ruin these tin pot fools have inflicted upon them. Unemployment currently at 35%? Or higher? Nobody really knows. 

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

is it because of the junta, or because you were younger?

Both, for sure. But mostly the Junta. They have really leveled this place. The changes are stunning, if you really examine them, talk to Thais, look at their attitudes toward the future, and look at the prospects of economic recovery. I know alot of Thais who were in the tourism sector. 95% of them are now gone, and struggling. Many used to have very successful businesses, own hotels, or guest houses, restaurants, etc. 

 

I do not thing I am being overly subjective, when I say the nation is moving backwards, at a breath taking pace. And this was long before Covid came along, so the favorite scapegoat of the goons does not really apply, if one examines this in earnest. Failed policies by a failed regime, possibly leading to a failed state.

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I never bothered, did my first TM30 last year in order to get a 1 year extension. Lots of hate towards Thailand shown in this thread, if I hated Thailand, I'd just leave.

 

I like it here!

As I have stated many, many times I do not hate Thailand. I love Thailand and the vast majority of it's people. There are two dozen other factors. Let's try not to make this too simplistic. It is not a simple issue. Equating having beefs, and complaining about them is not the same as hating a place, on any level. There are alot of factors. 

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

As I have stated many, many times I do not hate Thailand. I love Thailand and the vast majority of it's people. There are two dozen other factors. Let's try not to make this too simplistic. It is not a simple issue. Equating having beefs, and complaining about them is not the same as hating a place, on any level. There are alot of factors. 

Most of your complaints are about stuff that doesn't effect us.

Government ..... who cares, Military/Communist doesn't matter to us.

Experimental vaccine ........ who cares, wait until the FDA approve one.

Unemployment ....... who cares, I'm not allowed to work here anyway.

Starving people ....... who cares, not my family, not in my gated community.

Schools closed ........ the term cost me 6k, not a large loss, son happy watching Youtube.

 

Stuff that matters,

The booze shop is still open, housing is still cheap, young Thai Friendly ladies are still available, the weather is still warm (if a bit wet).

 

One odd thing, bread has disappeared from the stores .......

[jayboy]

15 hours ago, simon43 said:

BTW, as far as Covid in Laos is concerned, almost every single case detected are in Lao workers returning from Thailand, typically 35% of these workers have picked up this virus in Thailand.  Community spread within Laos is in single digit figures. 

Says a man sitting on a tinderbox.Once Delta gets a foothold in Laos, which it will, the country will blow - and without Thailand's health care advantages and a rotten corrupt government to boot.

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I’ve never understood comments like the above. The OP makes some valid points about a country that you were not born in and you respond like you're a representative of the Thai people. I think the phrase used is “Thaier than Thai”, and it’s a pretty tiresome response. 

Thank you. Some people just cannot deal with one of us complaining about some very valid issues the nation faces, and the sabotage inflicted upon it by absolute fools. Complaints do not mean I do not love Thailand. And lame replies mean little in the face of such official malfeasance, causing so much pain and wrecking so many lives.

 

Alot of ex-pats lose sight of how good we have it, with our income from overseas. Imagine having to earn Thai baht at this time? I cannot. 

 

Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall within Thailand, some guy, who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any focus or effort to a reasonable reply, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or maybe you should leave, or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". Hard to even respond to such statements. Why? Because I have some issues with the place? Sorry to inform you, but the nature of a discerning mind, is to have issues. Though absolute contentment must be a beautiful state of mind, it is not something most of us are blessed with, in case you have not noticed. The fact that I complain, does not mean I do not love Thailand, nor most of it's people. I do. But, I do have some major issues with the place, at this time. I get that many of you want to stay. And I commend you for that. Some of us are questioning our desire to stay at this stage. Nothing wrong with that either. 

Up until recently I could say I love my life here. I have a very good life here. But, I do have some complaints, and there are some things I would love to see improved. 

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Says a man sitting on a tinderbox.Once Delta gets a foothold in Laos, which it will, the country will blow - and without Thailand's health care advantages and a rotten corrupt government to boot.

A rotten corrupt government? How can any comparison be made with this current batch of overly corrupt fools? We do not even know the extent of the corruption here. It is likely mind boggling. Now, more than ever. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

Alot of ex-pats lose sight of how good we have it, with our income from overseas. Imagine having to earn Thai baht at this time? I cannot. 

My Thai daughter finished university and is working 1 month later.

Wage 18k/month for 5x 8hrs day/week, she was hoping to earn 25k but took what was available.

[Rimmer]

An off topic conspiracy troll video has been removed

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, kynikoi said:

In fairness maybe there is a weariness to the 90 day reports and non sensical chaos. Reentry permits, the legions of police we employ who are often looking for a back hander or simply to make our lives difficult. It's the exception rather than rule when you have a pain free experience with an immigration officer. I know I feel it.

 

If you're some upcountry geezer who's on his 15th extension and never left the country. Who's wife still slavishly bows and scrapes at your annual extension and brings gifts, who's never left the country or the province in that time maybe that's different.

 

What about that disaster of reporting your whereabouts upon your return home? That was only disbanded not because of any favor or humanity to us but imo it screwed up the data of people actually coming and going out of the country. The government was absolutely insistent upon it despite it being wholly broken on many levels.

 

How about paying taxes and getting nothing for it? Not even a modicum of thanks or respect. Personally, I'm in a very high tax bracket here. Not even a vip AZ vaccine.

 

The act of going to MTT by covid taxi to stand in the covid line to return in covid taxi is insensitive and a bit insane really. Ironically during lockdown. Double irony is when the hand is waived ...oh, too much covid we are closed. So... important when no covid, now not so much.

 

I love my wife dearly but if I'd not met her I'd possibly be in East Europe in summer and only here in the cool season Dec-Feb like the old days.

 

This place is done.

 

Want to travel outside? You'll be looking at paperwork, 25 thousand baht in covid tests, 1M insurance policy, reentry permit in/direct costs and ASQ for self and wife. That's gonna be forever. Covid like SARS before and MERS isn't vanishing off the planet. Worse, it's now institutionalized $$. There's policy and graft.

All good points. We finally hired a "point woman" to help us each time we renew our marriage visa, and bring the 60 pages or so of pointless documents, to prove we are married, every year of our lives. The hassle is completely unnecessary, and points toward massive xenophobia. 

 

A friend of mine recently arrived on the sandbox scheme. It took him a couple of months to get all of this handled. Below is a partial list of what he was subjected to, all of this despite the fact that cases here are rising, and in reality tourisms are taking a far greater risk by coming here, than the locals are taking by being exposed to them. After all, who is responsible for the cases in Phuket and Samui right now? The vast majority are Thais. So, admit is. Thais are more dangerous, with regard to Covid transmission. 

 

1) Apply for a visa
2) Apply for pre-approval for the Certificate of Entry (COE).
3) Meantime check flights and hotels - but don’t book because the visa or COE may not be approved, or in time.
4) Secure $100,000 of Covid-specific insurance. If you already have worldwide health insurance it doesn’t count unless it specifically states at least $100,000 just for Covid. Most policies are available online.
5) Make sure you have valid vaccine proof over 2 weeks old
6) Wait for pre-approval. Usually something is missing, so fix and resubmit
7) Meantime, start to worry about flights. Only 4-5 airlines are approved and fly direct to Phuket. You can’t transit via BKK. I had booked Turkish Airlines (part of Star Alliance) but they cancelled the Phuket flight 3 days before departure. I had to scramble to find another flight within 72 hours (the COE gives you 72 hours “cancel” time otherwise you have to resubmit!) I managed to find a good route on Etihad, but with long layovers.
8 ) After I submitted the pre-approval the official rules were published in the Royal Gazette - now you had to prove pre-payment for a 14 night stay, plus (surprise) pre-payment for 3 Covid tests in Phuket (flat rate of 8,000 baht for 3) one on arrival, one on day 6, last one on day 12. Positive - you’re off to a hospital, even if no symptoms. No self-quarantine!
9) Once you’re pre-approved, confirm and pay for the flights, hotel(s) and Covid tests. The hotel(s) send back an SHA+ approved booking confirmation form.
10) Get an RT PCR test within 72 hours of your first flight. I got one to match the Turkish Airlines flight. But had to get another because of their cancellation and rebooking with Etihad. Because of holidays (and hurricane Elsa reaching Florida) the testing labs shut down for 36 hours. So I had to buy an emergency 24 hour guaranteed test that cost $399!
11) I also had to book, cancel and rebook a “positioning” flight from my home in Jacksonville to Chicago, where the Etihad flight left from. Because of my baggage allowance with United (up to 3 @ 70lbs each) and other factors, I used them to go to Chicago. I had a long layover so I booked a “day-use” Marriott hotel (had to use cash - only $75 - but they upgraded me to a suite. I hung out there for 6 hours - showered and changed underwear and shirt - then back to O’Hare to check in with Etihad.
12) You must make copies of all documents. I made 2 of everything and bought plastic folders for each set and put everything in order. Plus extra copies of ones I thought they may keep - which they did!) Of course the print-heads on my multi-function printer crapped out (a technical term for not working ????) so I made 4 runs to the local FedEx office to print and copy all the docs. Then 3 more after the flight change. Oh - that reminds me - meantime I had booked and paid for the hotels. So I had to change the bookings - which meant multiple calls to the hotels and new confirmations and another trip to my friends (now on “Hello Mr. ++++ - nice to see you again” terms!) at FedEx!
Not sure what number I’m on now - finally, the COE approval came 24 hours before departure. One final visit to FedEx to make multiple copies of the COE.
Next number - the journey itself went fine - just very long. 40 hours door-to-door!
Last number - in Abu Dhabi the Etihad people were really worried about my COE “72 hour” extension. They said if the paperwork wasn’t exact what the Thai officials want they get a big fine - and I can’t stay in Phuket. They took copies (Ha! That’s where the extra copies went!) and sent to Phuket for approval. Within 2 hours they got the approval.

 

Being in the front cabin means getting off the plane first, which in turn puts you ahead of everyone else through immigration and customs. Because of my status I was greeted by a personal assistant in the pre-immigration Covid registration area. She helped me load the Morchana tracking app on my phone - yup, you’re tracked 24/7 for the 14 days (you also have to refresh the app every day and take a new selfie, plus have your temp checked). After that she escorted me thru immigration and made sure the official stamped my passport correctly (full year visa) and they escorted me to my waiting mini-van to the Four Points Sheraton. I was the only arrival with a personal assistant, so I think I got through to the van in record time - even with a stop to load a DTAC SIM into my phone (my US number uses the e-SIM on my phone, so both my US and Thai numbers are active- here I make the Thai number the primary).

There’s quite a bit more involved, as there were quite a few additional hurdles to jump over, but I think I covered the main points.

[spidermike007]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My Thai daughter finished university and is working 1 month later.

Wage 18k/month for 5x 8hrs day/week, she was hoping to earn 25k but took what was available.

While I applaud her, and am happy she found a job, in reality she is getting a 3,000 baht a month premium, for her years of study. While the low cost of labor benefits us ex-pats to no end, it is rough on the majority of Thai people, and that is exactly where this administration wants things to stay, so that their cronies can continue enjoying cheap labor. 

[OneMoreFarang]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

And of course, the question is if we leave, where to? Certainly not back to the US. Thinking maybe we will check out Spain for a long vacation. Then we will see. 

Do you know Spain? Or is this just a county which comes to your mind with nice weather and beaches and all that?

 

I think the problem is often that when we live in a place for many years then we see things which we didn't see before we moved to that place and which we still didn't see when we started to live there for months and maybe years. And additionally we want to see good things in a new place in which we want to live.

 

Currently I have to deal with the bureaucracy from my home country in Europe. I can't believe what I experience. Now, in 2021, they still don't use email. Even uncritical information is only send out per snail mail which takes weeks to arrive in Thailand. And that is supposed to be one of the leading countries in this world. Really?

 

I don't know how the bureaucracy is in Spain or in USA or UK or Australia or wherever. But this is just one one the examples which we often don't know before we live there. And then, at the beginning, we probably tell ourselves: We are new here and don't know the system, soon we will know it and all will be fine. And then, maybe many years later, we get to the point on which you are now. This is so frustrating. I want to move to a place where everything is better - at least I think it's better there. ????

 

Good luck, and think twice!

[xkkpafi]

Going back for covid jabs, never going to get it done here.

[statman78]

Even with all of the nonsense going on here I will stay.  I will not go back to the US and while I was working I got to see quite a few countries.  Some are nice and some are dumps but I was not interested in any of them.  Up here in Chiang Rai I think we are fairly insulated.  I have not had any trouble with immigration and even if they require insurance to maintain my retirement extension I’m set.  I have enough coverage and I am able to renew until I’m 95.  
 

I have a number of friends here, both Thai and western.  I also have a number of friends in Bangkok since I worked there for a while.

 

Yes, at times I get upset with the government here with the corruption and heartlessness but that has always been here at some level.

 

To be honest, sometimes I refuse to read the posts here on aseannow.  There are a number of posters that are never happy.

 

 

[Chivas]

17 hours ago, Broken Record said:

 No, I have lived here since 1990, I've got nowhere else to go.

Unless you're a Thai then you clearly have

[atpeace]

15 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Normally I would agree. Perspective is a big one. 

 

However, I know alot of Thais who are really in a world of hurt right now. Alot. And it is not just about Covid. 

You are seeing what you want to see.  I too know many middle class Thais that were poor ten years ago.  I would say half were making less than 10k baht a month and now ( before Covid) on average were clearing 40k baht would be my guess.  Have homes and take vacations.  I see this all over the country.  The hotels are packed with Thais! Even the poor manage to travel a little.  Not all but many.

 

I think you need to either leave or make a concerted effort to see reality.  There is evil everywhere and Thailand has a good amount of it but worse than 10 years ago when you arrived?  Maybe but seriously doubt it.  You have just lost the capacity to deal with it.

 

I hope Covid is not an issue next year and life returns to normal.  My life has not been impacted in the slightest by visa rules or hassles, Thai laws, Thai politicians...   The only person accountable for your aggravation is "you".  

 

Regardless, sincerely - good luck with the move.

[OneMoreFarang]

About all those other places in this world: Reading the news from all over the world I find it often fascinating what problems they have over there in the so called first world. I.e. LBGT+/- and all that. 20 years ago it was normal to make jokes about those people. Obviously in the hindsight that was not nice but for most of us we were just joking. Live and let live. But now, how dare anybody even thinks that a man who wants to be a woman should not be allowed to go to the women's toilet or participate in female sport. And obviously male/male couples should be allowed to adopt children and all that. IMHO the pendulum swung too far.

And there are other similar issues. I.e. migrants. I understand that people don't want to live in place x and they try to live in place y. But should they be allowed to do anything they want? I.e. if they arrive in what they hope will be their new home they often get food and shelter. But it seems for many that is not good enough. And again, if someone dares to mention that then people call you racist of things like that.

One more crazy sample is the trend to promote fat women. Now it's not "allowed" anymore to even think that women should be ideally slim and pretty. We are not allowed to say fat women are fat women. We should support them and they should get the same jobs and the same salary and the same everything - except obviously in catastrophes. Then those innocent women (and children) are the first who should be rescued.

At least I am happy that we don't have all that <deleted> here in Thailand.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I know alot of Thais who were in the tourism sector. 95% of them are now gone, and struggling.

is it because of the junta, or because of covid-19?

[Khabib]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

One more crazy sample is the trend to promote fat women. Now it's not "allowed" anymore to even think that women should be ideally slim and pretty.

I prefer to leave the thinking element to the little head 55

[spidermike007]

54 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you know Spain? Or is this just a county which comes to your mind with nice weather and beaches and all that?

 

I think the problem is often that when we live in a place for many years then we see things which we didn't see before we moved to that place and which we still didn't see when we started to live there for months and maybe years. And additionally we want to see good things in a new place in which we want to live.

 

Currently I have to deal with the bureaucracy from my home country in Europe. I can't believe what I experience. Now, in 2021, they still don't use email. Even uncritical information is only send out per snail mail which takes weeks to arrive in Thailand. And that is supposed to be one of the leading countries in this world. Really?

 

I don't know how the bureaucracy is in Spain or in USA or UK or Australia or wherever. But this is just one one the examples which we often don't know before we live there. And then, at the beginning, we probably tell ourselves: We are new here and don't know the system, soon we will know it and all will be fine. And then, maybe many years later, we get to the point on which you are now. This is so frustrating. I want to move to a place where everything is better - at least I think it's better there. ????

 

Good luck, and think twice!

All good points. And yes I have spent time in Spain and like it alot. Whether or not I would love living there, that I do not know.

 

I have a friend living there who used to live in both Cambodia and Thailand. He left and never looked back. And he is glad he did. He did agree with you about the red tape, and said the visa was very difficult the first year, however infinitely easier to renew each year, providing you can demonstrate the savings. 

 

We plan to travel there and spend some time. Will likely know better after that.

[spidermike007]

34 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

is it because of the junta, or because of covid-19?

Both. Tourism was dying a slow death for the past ten years. Higher numbers and infinitely lower quality led to far less income for most. And due to the bone headed luxury taxes and wine taxes, they are having a very hard time attracting the "high end tourists", they rant incessantly about. 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Both. Tourism was dying a slow death for the past ten years. Higher numbers and infinitely lower quality led to far less income for most. And due to the bone headed luxury taxes and wine taxes, they are having a very hard time attracting the "high end tourists", they rant incessantly about. 

tourism was dying the past ten years? than how come we see

more and more quality resorts and hotels built in the past ten years?

strange, but i allways have the feeling that thailand is making a slow consistent

progress, while most posters here saying it is going backwards.