How many foreigners have gone broke?

[kwilco]

Although many in the foreign  community are retirees with a fixed external income, there are many who started businesses in Thailand.

How many of these people have shut up shop and how many have had to return home?

Did any get government assistance?

Anyone had personal experience of this?

[Kwasaki]

I only know of one in our village and another outside but that was before the pandemic.

There's many restaurants shut at present only one was kept going by a falangie during a part of pandemic but closed down now. 

[DaLa]

Whilst governments have been making the decisions and advising telling us how to go about our business and lives for the last 20 months, has the pain been shared out equitably.

 

My view is there are 3 types of individual involved.

 

The first category are, surprise ,surprise, politicians. This group also includes anyone working for the government including police, army, etc. Then included in this group are the large corporations: oil companies, insurance companies, supermarket chains and anyone else the government deem to be essential. This group have had their salaries dividends, pensions and bonuses paid and have been largely (finacially) unaffected by the pandemic.

The next group are the employed. Choose whatever career / job you wish from a long list and some of this group have had various financial assistance. In some countries eg the UK I understand that was up to 80% for sitting at home. Now some have also been made redundant and have no income whatsoever.

This group are missing some or all of their income which is obviously a blow.

 

Finally there are the millions of small businesses that are not being paid as per group 1 but have lost their income like group 2 . But unlike group 2 when you operate a business you have overheads and they do not stop and have not stopped . In a nutshell they are losing money.

They are then forced to meet those overheads at the same time as being forced to not operate.

 

Equitable ?

 

We ( Thai wife and Brit) have been running an Export/Import business here for 9 years and had recently bought land and built a 400 Sq M shop and 6 bed house. We're committed, losing money and to answer your question no help either from the UK or Thai governments.  Having made that final statement  please refer back to my opening paras.

Edited September 14, 2021 by DaLa
Missing punctuation.

[Doctor Tom]

Just saw an advert for an insurance company in the US,  that following Covid, 55%  of retried western couples need financial support from their still working kids. maybe that's a stat, if true, that isn't getting any kind of publicity.  

[thaitom]

10 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Just saw an advert for an insurance company in the US,  that following Covid, 55%  of retried western couples need financial support from their still working kids. maybe that's a stat, if true, that isn't getting any kind of publicity.  

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by thaitom

[Johnny Mac]

Quite a lot I would say. Many have families too. Only the tough survive.

[ChaiyaTH]

To be honest, I am quite surprised there are many left who clearly do not even make enough to break-even, that didn't close up yet. My best guess is that they somehow been able to take out additional loans but even with that, I can't see them being around a year from now. 

I heard of many cases where the foreigner left and the Thai family returned to their home towns or villages, living pretty much of poverty. Makes sense I guess, i do not see that many foreigners around in general, even in Bangkok. 

[HappyExpat57]

I my circle I see teachers hanging on by a thread and they're all quite nervous about their future. The one school in particular where I still stay in touch, the teachers are being treated better than most, drawing a full paycheck while working online. No one is sure how much longer that can last. With lowered tuition, the school's outgo is exceeding income, and the pay is already miserable enough. Anything lower would be near impossible to sustain a family.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Just saw an advert for an insurance company in the US,  that following Covid, 55%  of retried western couples need financial support from their still working kids. maybe that's a stat, if true, that isn't getting any kind of publicity.  

No government IMO is going to volunteer to give us bad news. If they ain't <deleted> scared of what will happen next election they should be.

[zzaa09]

32 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

To be honest, I am quite surprised there are many left who clearly do not even make enough to break-even, that didn't close up yet. My best guess is that they somehow been able to take out additional loans but even with that, I can't see them being around a year from now. 

I heard of many cases where the foreigner left and the Thai family returned to their home towns or villages, living pretty much of poverty. Makes sense I guess, i do not see that many foreigners around in general, even in Bangkok. 

I think all this might category itself by unnecessary lifestyle and inability to adjust - in good times or bad times. 

[ThailandRyan]

Find yourself a bar owner or a restaurant owner in one of the tourist areas and ask them.  I know of a few who have walked away and the owner of the main complex has been given his bars back, and that is in Rawai, Phuket.  So the folks that had paid him Key money and bought leases from him seem to have gone belly up.  I know of at least two coffee shops that were foreigner owned but wife operated that have also closed up and become shuttered. I know many Thai's here in BKK that have shuttered their small stores, but will survive.  The biggest hit so far was my GF who had to close up her Salon, and lay off her Thai workers, 3 of them.  The landlord kept hounding her for rent even thought she had come to the end of her lease two months into the first shutdown.  She then hired herself out to another bigger Salon in Bang Na where she is a colorist.  The hits keep coming as we know many more that have now used up the last of their lifelines and can not get anymore lines of credit to try and hold on until Thailand re-opens. 

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I only know of one in our village and another outside but that was before the pandemic.

There's many restaurants shut at present only one was kept going by a falangie during a part of pandemic but closed down now. 

I've heard that the dozens of resort/guest house complexes out in Muang Khao, owned and operated by Farang/Thai couples, have taken a beating - some have closed permanently. 

[pookondee]

4 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Just saw an advert for an insurance company in the US,  that following Covid, 55%  of retried western couples need financial support from their still working kids. maybe that's a stat, if true, that isn't getting any kind of publicity.  

I find that hard to believe,

but then again its entirely possible

that 45% of retired couples could be helping their kids survive too.

 

In some countries its reported that people are living with their parents until well into their 30's.

Such is, the real estate markets

sky-rocketing

and what seems like government policy to keep interest rates near zero and have as many people in debt as they can.

 

Sad world, in many ways.

[BobBKK]

I had half my income (rents) dive with covid and now just have my pensions (thank God). I don't know of anyone not suffering to some extent or another apart from the top 0.1% ammart.

[HeijoshinCool]

.

Our world as we know it is a time bomb, and the fuse is burning.

 

I know numerous self-employed folk in various countries who are waiting....waiting....waiting, praying for a semblance of normality to return. First they were forced to close their business, now they are eating through their savings. Soon enough they will start selling off investments and  belongings or are already doing so. Some have gone from zero credit card debt, to tens of thousands in debt. Those who are retired and on pension and social security, are nervous.

 

Combine this with heavy inflation on food and real estate (in the US, at least), and you have a disaster on the horizon.

 

Normal again someday you say? Not a chance.

 

Our misleaders have no plan nor intention of repairing the damage they have knowingly inflicted on us. They are power mad. They only use this mess, they created, to line their own pockets.

 

.

[Kwasaki]

47 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

I've heard that the dozens of resort/guest house complexes out in Muang Khao, owned and operated by Farang/Thai couples, have taken a beating - some have closed permanently. 

Correct even before pandemic but they still build more. 

[HappyExpat57]

I'm paying the rent and a little extra for food/utilities of a local bar my friends and I would gather every Saturday noon. The gal that owns it always treated us like family and we really want to see her carry on. Without my support, she'd have to shutter her only source of income.

[ChristianBlessing]

5 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Just saw an advert for an insurance company in the US,  that following Covid, 55%  of retried western couples need financial support from their still working kids. maybe that's a stat, if true, that isn't getting any kind of publicity.  

This sounds like something only an insurance company would dream up. From the Pew Trust: "People who have already retired, on the other hand, count not on employment income and workplace benefits but on Social Security and Medicare as well as their own savings and any pensions they may have, so they have been much less affected by the large layoffs associated with COVID-19.² The challenges they face are different: deciding how much to withdraw from their savings and when, making this group more reliant on the performance of the stock and bond markets."

 

It stands to reason that the employed and self-employed would be most impacted by the pandemic for all the obvious reasons. While inflation could certainly cause retirees to tighten the belt somewhat, those retired are most likely to be supporting their offspring rather than the other way around.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, HappyExpat57 said:

I'm paying the rent and a little extra for food/utilities of a local bar my friends and I would gather every Saturday noon. The gal that owns it always treated us like family and we really want to see her carry on. Without my support, she'd have to shutter her only source of income.

Very decent and familial of you. 

 

[StreetCowboy]

52 minutes ago, ChristianBlessing said:

This sounds like something only an insurance company would dream up. From the Pew Trust: "People who have already retired, on the other hand, count not on employment income and workplace benefits but on Social Security and Medicare as well as their own savings and any pensions they may have, so they have been much less affected by the large layoffs associated with COVID-19.² The challenges they face are different: deciding how much to withdraw from their savings and when, making this group more reliant on the performance of the stock and bond markets."

 

It stands to reason that the employed and self-employed would be most impacted by the pandemic for all the obvious reasons. While inflation could certainly cause retirees to tighten the belt somewhat, those retired are most likely to be supporting their offspring rather than the other way around.

When half your tenants have stopped paying rent, and the other half have shuttered up shop and gone out of business, your invested life savings seem less valuable.  Especially when the government runs up inflation on the printing presses churning out monopoly money, and you can see your fixed income and your savings dwindling in value.

On the bright side, there is a little bit of schadenfreude for those with no children, knowing that  other people's future generations will be saddled with the debt incurred during the pandemic to protect primarily the elderly.

[Gottfrid]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

How many of these people have shut up shop and how many have had to return home?

Did any get government assistance?

Anyone had personal experience of this?

Sounds like you are in a tight spot. Not to worry, I will assist with the answers.
1. 319

2. NO!

3. Yes! Please check how many in answer 1.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Gottfrid

[Golden Triangle]

2 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

Our world as we know it is a time bomb, and the fuse is burning.

 

Surely you mean the clock is ticking ????????????

[n00dle]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

How many of these people have shut up shop and how many have had to return home?

6

[rhodie]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

How many of these people have shut up shop and how many have had to return home?

2

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

Surely you mean the clock is ticking ????????????

I think maybe he is from the bomb squad, and he is planning a controlled explosion before the clock gets to zero.

I had always imagined that the bomb squad would have used a plunger to set off controlled explosions, but maybe old habits die hard in the land of Guy Fawkes.

[Golden Triangle]

7 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I think maybe he is from the bomb squad, and he is planning a controlled explosion before the clock gets to zero.

I had always imagined that the bomb squad would have used a plunger to set off controlled explosions, but maybe old habits die hard in the land of Guy Fawkes.

Believe it or not when I 1st started with EOD we actually used a plunger device, these days they have another piece of kit which can handle about 6 separate jobs, the name escapes me at the moment, but I left the army in 1980 ish, so things have moved on ????

[polpott]

3 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I had half my income (rents) dive with covid and now just have my pensions (thank God). I don't know of anyone not suffering to some extent or another apart from the top 0.1% ammart.

My income is derived entirely from state and company pensions in the UK. With the improvement in the GBP/THB rate, I am now noticably better off than before the pandemic and with the restrictions on bar/entertainment venues my outgoings are less too.

[RichardColeman]

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

How many of these people have shut up shop and how many have had to return home?

How many didn't think to burn it down and claim on the insurance.

 

Be very interesting if there have been more businesses burned to the ground and claimedfor during covid than at other times 

[ChristianBlessing]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

When half your tenants have stopped paying rent, and the other half have shuttered up shop and gone out of business, your invested life savings seem less valuable.  Especially when the government runs up inflation on the printing presses churning out monopoly money, and you can see your fixed income and your savings dwindling in value.

On the bright side, there is a little bit of schadenfreude for those with no children, knowing that  other people's future generations will be saddled with the debt incurred during the pandemic to protect primarily the elderly.

Fair enough. My comment concerned retirees in the US, where the vast majority do not rely on rental income for retirement needs. I understand that not all countries provide a decent safety net or social security/pension plans. As for future debt, yes, we'll all be paying, but very little of the Covid relief funding was earmarked for protecting "primarily the elderly". 

[The Cipher]

Quote

but very little of the Covid relief funding was earmarked for protecting "primarily the elderly". 

And yet that was primarily its function. Just in an indirect way. I really shouldn't hit the 'Submit Reply' button at this point, but ah well. In for a penny, in for a pound.