Wise transfers not being processed as International (Specifically Bangkok Bank)

[racyrick]

The bottom line to this whole scenario for the last 2 1/2 weeks seems to be that if your account is "Tagged" you are 100% getting the transfer straight to Bangkok Bank and the FTT coding no matter what reason you give for the transfer and if your account is not "Tagged" and you use the funds for long term stay option, it is a crapshoot what type off transfer you will get.

[billd766]

46 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Not to be the prophet of doom, but even if Wise were doing nothing for us at all, a certain number of Wise transfers would be marked by Bangkok Bank as FTT.  When that happens we don't know if the transfer was going to be marked FTT anyway (by following Wise's general algorithm) or whether Wise took notice of the special "tagging" and purpose of transfer and because of that changed something to make sure that it got marked as FTT.  We only know that when it's not marked FTT that the special handling didn't happen.  

Several years ago I got Wise to "tag" my account at the BBK bank.

 

I do online banking and before I do a transfer with Wise I check my BBK account so that I know the balance. I do the transfer and so far for the last couple of years I know that my transfer from Wise will be on the next working day. Wise also tell me in the details of the transfer when the money will be in my BBK account.

 

If it is less than the next working day transfer I have figured out that there could be a problem so I check my BBK balance again. If the transfer is already in my account it means to me that something went amiss with the transfer. So far in nearly 3 years it has only happened once which is why I had my account "tagged".

[Pib]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Just got a reply from Wise.

 

They've tagged my account, I've done two transfers to BB using long term stay and general living expenses, both settling Monday, maybe due to holiday. I don't think the reason for transfer is relevant anymore but i thought I'd test it.

 

In the first paragraph he says BB has changed their procedures, it doesn't make total sense as he's tagged it

 

Let's just hope the part about "...Bangkok Bank has changed its policy to where Wise transfers will not be marked as FTT...." is simply not true....just a Wise rep somewhat confused over the issue....not fully understanding what another Wise dept may have supposedly said.   OR, it's a change Bangkok Bank has just decided to do but will actually take a little time to implement.  

 

As mentioned earlier I did a tagged transfer today to my Bangkok Bank acct and it showed up with FTT coding at 2:02pm.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Pib

[norbra]

1 hour ago, racyrick said:

That is very scary because if that's true, we will no longer get the FTT coding at Bangkok Bank no matter what bank WISE uses. This is very disturbing. I guess you will find out Monday as your transfer definitely went directly to Bangkok Bank which is the good news. Let's hope what he said was wrong!!

This only affects your passbook,your purchase order to buy Thb was initiated in your home country in your home currency.,Wiise Internal settlements do not remove the fx ID from your contract that the Thai partner bank creates on receipt of settlement details. All foreign exchange agents must notify BoT about each transaction involving Thb

Edited October 21, 2021 by norbra

[Pib]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Some interesting posts on facebook, it seems Wise are trying to fix the problem by setting up the recipient more than once, once routed to BB so FTT other routing not

You can already setup a recipient more than once if you are sending different currencies.  Like sending THB or USD to the same acct at the same bank.  If sending THB it will flow via Wise's normal peer-to-peer method but if wanting USD to arrive Wise will send it via SWIFT.  I have a couple of my recipient accts setup that way just in case someday I need to send via SWIFT from Wise.

 

Maybe the Facebook posts were talking about that?   Or do you think they were talking about sending THB two different ways....something truly brand new?   

 

Although I have a Facebook acct I don't use it much...and I'm not part of that private Wise Facebook Group.

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Pib

[theoldgit]

Members will be aware that with the help of our member @ianguygil we reached out to Bangok Bank, senior managers promised to look at the issue, and I received this response earlier today.

 

Thanks very much @ianguygil

 

Thank you for informing us about the problem of customers who have sent international funds transfers from Wise to their account maintained with Bangkok Bank in Thailand and do not have the  FTT code, referring to an international funds transfer transaction, in the bank statement. As you explain, Immigration may need to see proof that the funds have been received from overseas, when they renew their visa.  

Bangkok Bank would like to clarify the process we follow when we receive payment instructions from Wise to credit the account of a beneficiary in Thailand.

1. When the payment instructions are for a  beneficiary that has an account with Bangkok Bank, the bank will credit the funds to the beneficiary account and the code for the account credited will be FTT code. 
2. When the payment instructions are for a beneficiary that has an account with another local bank in Thailand, we will transfer funds to the beneficiary bank via the SMART system. Since it  will be a domestic payment in Thailand, the code for the transfer to the beneficiary bank will be the domestic code.

To solve this problem, the customer can contact Bangkok Bank to ask for a Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer which they can submit to Immigration, together with the bank statement and the Confirmation Letter of the Balance in the Account. This can be used to prove the international source of funds. We are attaching the guideline for obtaining a Confirmation Letter of International Funds for your reference.

If the customer has an account with Bangkok Bank but the payment instruction from Wise was sent to another local bank in Thailand, that local bank will send funds via the SMART system to Bangkok Bank. In this case the customer must contact that bank to ask them to issue a Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer. The person remitting the funds can see the name of  Wise’s banking partner in Thailand in the receipt for international funds transfer issued by Wise.

We hope this is helpful and would appreciate it if you could also share this information with your members.

Guideline for obtaining a Confirmation Letter of Int. Funds Transfer (1).docx

[Pib]

Hopefully above--which pretty much states they have not changed policy/procedure at Bangkok Bank--that the current problem is totally caused by Wise due to some change on the Wise sending end.  

 

And above tells me Bangkok Bank has not, nor is planning, to do away with FTT coding in those cases where Bangkok Bank is the partner bank for a transfer and that transfer is going to a Bangkok Bank acct.  

 

[Dante99]

8 hours ago, Chris.B said:

These 'suggestions' always mention the transfer fee but never the exchange rate differences. It is the exchange rate which is important, not the transfer fee.

Incorrect.  It is the net Baht received for a given amount sent which is important.  That is a result of fees and exchange rate both.

 

I have used WISE and a $10 SWIFT fee and I know the facts about how many baht I get from each on like USD  transfers.  $3,000 transfer and the difference between the two transfer methods is usually less than $10 with SWIFT often better.  Those are facts, of course using different banks will give different results.

 

If you read the second sentence of my post you will find that I was talking about more than just fees.  How much baht you get is net of fees and includes exchange rate so there is no need to mention the rate since I wrote about net receipts.

8 hours ago, Pib said:

Additionally, I don't think most people have premium bank/financial accts where free/lower international wire fees are offered....or have a really high sum balances (i.e., like 100K USD or maybe even 1M USD)  which may qualify them for lower/free wire fees.

 

All you need for those balances is a reasonable amount of retirement savings and investment but you could be correct that most people do not have that and are living hand to mouth on monthly pension and SS checks.  If you do not have a reasonable amount of retirement savings and investments socked away you are not really in the game are you?

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

 

All you need for those balances is a reasonable amount of retirement savings and investment but you could be correct that most people do not have that and are living hand to mouth on monthly pension and SS checks.  If you do not have a reasonable amount of retirement savings and investments socked away you are not really in the game are you?

Talks average savings of an American in 2019.

https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-savings-by-age/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_1Ye04YQnotlhCzvyfOoVOz.KhS6tOyNauZ95aOPRrnk-1634822530-0-gqNtZGzNAnujcnBszQil

 

Average Savings by Age: 55 to 64

The 2019 Fed survey found that Americans between the ages of 55 and 64 had an average savings account balance of $57,800.

As this is the time when most Americans are staring down retirement in a few years it’s typically a good idea to kick up savings, specifically retirement savings, into high gear.

That’s because while younger people are capped at contributing $19,500 a year to a 401(k) account, those over the age of 50 are allowed to contribute an additional $6,500.This is known as a catch-up contribution.
The average retirement savings account for a person between the ages of 50 and 59 in 2019 was $160,000. It’s important to note that taking out cash before the age of 59 and a half could mean tax penalties.

Average Savings by Age: 65 and Older

This is when savings really peaks for the average American. The 2019 Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances found that Americans between the ages of 65 and 74 had an average savings account balance of $60,400.

However, that savings number does drop over time. According to the survey, Americans above the age of 75 had an average savings account balance of $55,600.

This drop illustrates the importance of creating a retirement budget and sticking to it in an effort to have enough savings for as long as needed.

But, before retirement, try to hit the average retirement savings number of 2019 for those aged 60 to 69, which was $182,100.

 

[Dante99]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

The average retirement savings account for a person between the ages of 50 and 59 in 2019 was $160,000.

 

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

But, before retirement, try to hit the average retirement savings number of 2019 for those aged 60 to 69, which was $182,100.

160-180k is enough to get good quality bank and financial institution accounts.  But it is not much if you have a large medical bill. 

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

 

160-180k is enough to get good quality bank and financial institution accounts.  But it is not much if you have a large medical bill. 

If you have insurance it should be more than enough for most with pensions.  Savings is just one measure - pension/annuity income would be additional - part time work more still.  Medical insurance should pay for most of any medical bill.

[ianguygil]

3 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Members will be aware that with the help of our member @ianguygil we reached out to Bangok Bank, senior managers promised to look at the issue, and I received this response earlier today.

 

Thanks very much @ianguygil

 

Thank you for informing us about the problem of customers who have sent international funds transfers from Wise to their account maintained with Bangkok Bank in Thailand and do not have the  FTT code, referring to an international funds transfer transaction, in the bank statement. As you explain, Immigration may need to see proof that the funds have been received from overseas, when they renew their visa.  

Bangkok Bank would like to clarify the process we follow when we receive payment instructions from Wise to credit the account of a beneficiary in Thailand.

1. When the payment instructions are for a  beneficiary that has an account with Bangkok Bank, the bank will credit the funds to the beneficiary account and the code for the account credited will be FTT code. 
2. When the payment instructions are for a beneficiary that has an account with another local bank in Thailand, we will transfer funds to the beneficiary bank via the SMART system. Since it  will be a domestic payment in Thailand, the code for the transfer to the beneficiary bank will be the domestic code.

To solve this problem, the customer can contact Bangkok Bank to ask for a Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer which they can submit to Immigration, together with the bank statement and the Confirmation Letter of the Balance in the Account. This can be used to prove the international source of funds. We are attaching the guideline for obtaining a Confirmation Letter of International Funds for your reference.

If the customer has an account with Bangkok Bank but the payment instruction from Wise was sent to another local bank in Thailand, that local bank will send funds via the SMART system to Bangkok Bank. In this case the customer must contact that bank to ask them to issue a Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer. The person remitting the funds can see the name of  Wise’s banking partner in Thailand in the receipt for international funds transfer issued by Wise.

We hope this is helpful and would appreciate it if you could also share this information with your members.

Guideline for obtaining a Confirmation Letter of Int. Funds Transfer (1).docx 25.59 kB · 10 downloads

My pleasure to at least help to clarify things when I can. This is pretty self explanatory, it is WISE who has made a change and the local correspondent (the Bank they send it to) effectively strips off the information which tells us it is for your visa process. I have asked the Bank to talk to WISE and find out why these are not coming directly. But as I said when first involved in this, we are not involved in the routing of the payment to us. WISE effectively matches/nets transactions paying from their accounts with banks in many countries. A bit like FX Netting but for payments. So they must have more in THB with one bank one day, so they route the Thai payments through them, then another bank another day, thereby managing their positions.

 

Again to note, I have not read through all these posts. But it seems the right message has been received.

 

I am happy to help when I have time. Please send me a PM if you need to get my attention because I do not spend much time on this forum, even though I enjoy it when I do.

 

FYI, I am a direct report to the CEO so I can easily ask other parts of the Bank to respond if customers need support.

We appreciate your business. 

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Members will be aware that with the help of our member @ianguygil we reached out to Bangok Bank, senior managers promised to look at the issue, and I received this response earlier today.

 

Thanks very much @ianguygil

 

Thank you for informing us about the problem of customers who have sent international funds transfers from Wise to their account maintained with Bangkok Bank in Thailand and do not have the  FTT code, referring to an international funds transfer transaction, in the bank statement. As you explain, Immigration may need to see proof that the funds have been received from overseas, when they renew their visa.  

Bangkok Bank would like to clarify the process we follow when we receive payment instructions from Wise to credit the account of a beneficiary in Thailand.

1. When the payment instructions are for a  beneficiary that has an account with Bangkok Bank, the bank will credit the funds to the beneficiary account and the code for the account credited will be FTT code. 
2. When the payment instructions are for a beneficiary that has an account with another local bank in Thailand, we will transfer funds to the beneficiary bank via the SMART system. Since it  will be a domestic payment in Thailand, the code for the transfer to the beneficiary bank will be the domestic code.

To solve this problem, the customer can contact Bangkok Bank to ask for a Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer which they can submit to Immigration, together with the bank statement and the Confirmation Letter of the Balance in the Account. This can be used to prove the international source of funds. We are attaching the guideline for obtaining a Confirmation Letter of International Funds for your reference.

If the customer has an account with Bangkok Bank but the payment instruction from Wise was sent to another local bank in Thailand, that local bank will send funds via the SMART system to Bangkok Bank. In this case the customer must contact that bank to ask them to issue a Confirmation Letter of International Funds Transfer. The person remitting the funds can see the name of  Wise’s banking partner in Thailand in the receipt for international funds transfer issued by Wise.

We hope this is helpful and would appreciate it if you could also share this information with your members.

Guideline for obtaining a Confirmation Letter of Int. Funds Transfer (1).docx 25.59 kB · 10 downloads

Strange that, no mention of the 2pm FTT processing, probably some kind of manual batch processing

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

You can already setup a recipient more than once if you are sending different currencies.  Like sending THB or USD to the same acct at the same bank.  If sending THB it will flow via Wise's normal peer-to-peer method but if wanting USD to arrive Wise will send it via SWIFT.  I have a couple of my recipient accts setup that way just in case someday I need to send via SWIFT from Wise.

 

Maybe the Facebook posts were talking about that?   Or do you think they were talking about sending THB two different ways....something truly brand new?   

 

Although I have a Facebook acct I don't use it much...and I'm not part of that private Wise Facebook Group.

 

I'm pretty sure the person had the same currency set up several times, but he was going to ask Wise what they had done

[Pib]

The wife did a Wise transfer this Thai holiday morning/ 22 Oct to our Bangkok Bank joint acct....used the Long Stay Thailand reason for transfer....funded from her multicurrency acct.....she does not have any recipients tagged to use Bangkok Bank as the partner bank.   Funds posted within seconds....K-bank was used as the partner bank.

[Pumpuynarak]

25 minutes ago, Pib said:

The wife did a Wise transfer this Thai holiday morning/ 22 Oct to our Bangkok Bank joint acct....used the Long Stay Thailand reason for transfer....funded from her multicurrency acct.....she does not have any recipients tagged to use Bangkok Bank as the partner bank.   Funds posted within seconds....K-bank was used as the partner bank.

Tagging is now the way to go, after having my BB account tagged transfers are now showing FTT whereas before they were not.

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

The wife did a Wise transfer this Thai holiday morning/ 22 Oct to our Bangkok Bank joint acct....used the Long Stay Thailand reason for transfer....funded from her multicurrency acct.....she does not have any recipients tagged to use Bangkok Bank as the partner bank.   Funds posted within seconds....K-bank was used as the partner bank.

I thought we already concluded "long term stay" or "property purchase" reason for transfer no longer works

[racyrick]

12 hours ago, ianguygil said:

My pleasure to at least help to clarify things when I can. This is pretty self explanatory, it is WISE who has made a change and the local correspondent (the Bank they send it to) effectively strips off the information which tells us it is for your visa process. I have asked the Bank to talk to WISE and find out why these are not coming directly. But as I said when first involved in this, we are not involved in the routing of the payment to us. WISE effectively matches/nets transactions paying from their accounts with banks in many countries. A bit like FX Netting but for payments. So they must have more in THB with one bank one day, so they route the Thai payments through them, then another bank another day, thereby managing their positions.

 

Again to note, I have not read through all these posts. But it seems the right message has been received.

 

I am happy to help when I have time. Please send me a PM if you need to get my attention because I do not spend much time on this forum, even though I enjoy it when I do.

 

FYI, I am a direct report to the CEO so I can easily ask other parts of the Bank to respond if customers need support.

We appreciate your business. 

Thank you so much for your help and time!! I did send you a PM.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I thought we already concluded "long term stay" or "property purchase" reason for transfer no longer works

Yeap...I'm just reporting how a transfer went.  If nothing else it indicates the reason Long Stay Thailand when sending to a Bangkok Bank acct still doesn't result in FTT coding as of this morning....which indicates Wise hasn't fixed the problem yet (if they even really plan to).

[norbra]

  On 10/18/2021 at 4:15 PM, skatewash said:

I'm referring to people who have Bangkok Bank accounts that they are transferring to and that they have correctly selected the purpose of "long term stay in Thailand."  In other words, those that have done what used to "guarantee" that they would receive the FTT designation.  If people are still reporting unsuccessful FTT transfers in that category of transferrers the problem remains. 

 

Monday 18th October

From 19 pages of examples etc. My conclusion is if you want FTT for your transfer no matter what purpose is chosen you will get it if you have had your recipient account with Wise previously  "tagged" just saying

[billd766]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I thought we already concluded "long term stay" or "property purchase" reason for transfer no longer works

I disagree with you.

 

I am only commenting on the "Funds for long term stay in Thailand".

 

It has worked for me for nearly 3 years including 2 transfers this month with one more to come in the UK today for arrival just after 2pm on Monday.

 

I cannot presume to speak for everyone but it works for me.

 

You may have concluded "long term stay" or "property purchase" reason for transfer no longer works, but you are not speaking for everyone either.

 

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Yeap...I'm just reporting how a transfer went.  If nothing else it indicates the reason Long Stay Thailand when sending to a Bangkok Bank acct still doesn't result in FTT coding as of this morning....which indicates Wise hasn't fixed the problem yet (if they even really plan to).

Like you I am just reporting how a transfer went.

 

For me and several other people who have posted, it works well.

 

For you and several other posters it doesn't work.

 

IMHO if it works for everyone that is a good thing.

 

If it doesn't work for anyone that would be bad.

 

The problem is that it works for some and not for others.

[sanuk711]

I have just received a wise Transfer from Oz to My Bank BBK Bank---I filled in the usual categories (have been doing this awhile ) the transfer is marked SMT, I phone asking about it---they asked me to re-phone Monday---holiday to day. This is my first transfer marked SMT

[scubascuba3]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I disagree with you.

 

I am only commenting on the "Funds for long term stay in Thailand".

 

It has worked for me for nearly 3 years including 2 transfers this month with one more to come in the UK today for arrival just after 2pm on Monday.

 

I cannot presume to speak for everyone but it works for me.

 

You may have concluded "long term stay" or "property purchase" reason for transfer no longer works, but you are not speaking for everyone either.

 

Like you I am just reporting how a transfer went.

 

For me and several other people who have posted, it works well.

 

For you and several other posters it doesn't work.

 

IMHO if it works for everyone that is a good thing.

 

If it doesn't work for anyone that would be bad.

 

The problem is that it works for some and not for others.

it's quite likely your account is tagged. If you ask Wise they can confirm either way

[Pib]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

I disagree with you.

 

I am only commenting on the "Funds for long term stay in Thailand".

 

It has worked for me for nearly 3 years including 2 transfers this month with one more to come in the UK today for arrival just after 2pm on Monday.

 

I cannot presume to speak for everyone but it works for me.

 

You may have concluded "long term stay" or "property purchase" reason for transfer no longer works, but you are not speaking for everyone either.

 

Like you I am just reporting how a transfer went.

 

For me and several other people who have posted, it works well.

 

For you and several other posters it doesn't work.

 

IMHO if it works for everyone that is a good thing.

 

If it doesn't work for anyone that would be bad.

 

The problem is that it works for some and not for others.

I expect your acct is tagged.  Without reading back thru this now long thread maybe you said before you had tagged your acct years ago....maybe you didn't.

 

Edit: I see in a post several up/21 hours ago you said you had your Wise acct tagged for Bangkok Bank several years ago.  So, that's why your transfers to Bangkok Bank are still receiving FTT coding no matter what reason for transfer selected.

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Pib

[treetops]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

it's quite likely your account is tagged. If you ask Wise they can confirm either way

 

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

I expect your acct is tagged.  Without reading back thru this now long thread maybe you said before you had tagged your acct years ago....maybe you didn't.

 

21 hours ago, billd766 said:

Several years ago I got Wise to "tag" my account at the BBK bank.

It certainly appears it's the tagging that's doing it now as opposed to the reason for transfer.

[Pib]

treetops, you and I are passing in the night regarding where build766 said he had his acct tagged.  Just as I found his earlier post and was editing my post, your post came in. 

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, treetops said:

It certainly appears it's the tagging that's doing it now as opposed to the reason for transfer.

yeap...that's how I see it also.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

it's quite likely your account is tagged. If you ask Wise they can confirm either way

It has been tagged for well over 2 years.

 

I just did another transfer and Wise tell me it will be there on Monday but I think it ill b Tuesday as Monday is a substitution day for Chulalongkorn Day (Saturday).

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It has been tagged for well over 2 years.

 

I just did another transfer and Wise tell me it will be there on Monday but I think it ill b Tuesday as Monday is a substitution day for Chulalongkorn Day (Saturday).

i reckon if you did a small transfer and chose reason "general living expenses" it will still settle as FTT

[billd766]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

i reckon if you did a small transfer and chose reason "general living expenses" it will still settle as FTT

Maybe next month.

 

I have a small Excel file which logs the dates when my pensions are due in the UK and then in Thailand and beneath it I have set up public holidays in Thailand each month.

 

Add a running yearly total and a monthly total of both funds and forex rates and I can see at a glance whether the forex is up or down and how much I get monthly. I have another for monthly expenses.