A Tesla charges with the Yallorn brown coal power station in the background. Yallorn is one of the most polluting power stations in Australia. Cited for closure in 2028.

 

@Crossy

 

Not Thailand related you naughty moderator ????

 

But yes really ironic

these righteous EV drivers probably either dont think that their car recharge comes from fossil fuels or maybe believe it comes from “ clean “ energy like solar / wave / hydro, which machinery in turn requires….. coal, oil.

1 minute ago, robblok said:

@Crossy

 

Not Thailand related you naughty moderator ????

 

But yes really ironic

 

From the Local Forum roolz;-

"If you see a relevant article on the net that may be interesting (doesn't have to be in Thailand), please post. Don't forget to respect the "Fair Use" guidelines, a couple of paragraphs, maybe a photo and a link."

 

Not to mention how it goes in Africa with mining the resources, using children and chemicals that cause new problems while we still have plenty of oil.

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

From the Local Forum roolz;-

"If you see a relevant article on the net that may be interesting (doesn't have to be in Thailand), please post. Don't forget to respect the "Fair Use" guidelines, a couple of paragraphs, maybe a photo and a link."

 

Ooops.. my mistake.

If I were a betting man (I'm not, it's not legal in Thailand), I'd wager that even using power from Yallorn the Tesla is still cleaner overall than many an ICE vehicle.

 

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

If I were a betting man (I'm not, it's not legal in Thailand), I'd wager that even using power from Yallorn the Tesla is still cleaner overall than many an ICE vehicle.

 

It’s good to move the pollution of power generation away from the streets and vulnerable members of the public, although a large part of that benefit has been achieved by putting the exhaust on the right; putting it above head-height, or on the bonnet in full view of the driver would help, and putting it inside the saloon near the steering wheel would pretty much solve all pollution problems.

 

From my perspective, electric cars are just another desperate attempt at maintaining urban sprawl and congestion at the expense of human beings and the environment. 

At least EVs aren't adding to the local air pollution via exhaust.  With the ongoing practical home solar cost getting lower all the time, topping up batteries at home for local driving is about as eco as one can get.

 

A work in progress until the fossil fuel corporations surrender their grip on politicians.

Aside from fuel required to charge these things, how are the batteries made, and what happens to the batteries when their (short) life ends? ????

Walking, or cycling consume 'clean' energy. Using mules, elephants etc is no longer acceptable.

 

Too many people on the planet, and we need to reduce or at least control the number... ????

16 hours ago, 2long said:

 .

 

Too many people on the planet, and we need to reduce or at least control the number... ????

Enter Covid.

19 hours ago, robblok said:

@Crossy

 

Not Thailand related you naughty moderator ????

 

But yes really ironic

whats  ironic is  people throwing thousands of  dollars  on a  new  car, and teslas aint cheap, when keeping an old  car  running is more environmentally friendly

18 hours ago, Crossy said:

If I were a betting man (I'm not, it's not legal in Thailand), I'd wager that even using power from Yallorn the Tesla is still cleaner overall than many an ICE vehicle.

 

generating/distributing electricity is very wasteful  though 60% I read

It is estimated that of the 66% lost, 59% of it is lost in the generation process. This includes:

• Waste heat occurring due to inefficiencies in the process of converting primary energy to electricity. This makes up about 54% of the overall losses.
• Electricity used internally by the power plant during operations. This makes up about 5% of overall losses.

7 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

whats  ironic is  people throwing thousands of  dollars  on a  new  car, and teslas aint cheap, when keeping an old  car  running is more environmentally friendly

That is not ironic, its what they like and they can afford it. Their choice. Most people I know that have Tesla have one not for the environment but for showing off. 

Just now, robblok said:

That is not ironic, its what they like and they can afford it. Their choice. Most people I know that have Tesla have one not for the environment but for showing off. 

ok letsd say electric  cars  in general, none of them are cheap.....yet, the point to keep an old car running

2 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

ok letsd say electric  cars  in general, none of them are cheap.....yet, the point to keep an old car running

I have no idea about this, and to be honest I don't really care. Go to calculation of environment organizations you will see other numbers as those organizations that support normal fuel. I think electric can be cleaner then normal fuel, depending on how the electricity has been produced.

 

Once nuclear fusion gets developed then things will be better right now im not sure. But electric is the future.

Cute picture and comment.

But a little hyperbolic.

Do you understand how power grids work? Unless this power plant is a completely isolated plant and its power distribution connects directly to the Telsa hookup shown in the picture or if there's no other noncoal power plant (ie., wind turbine, battery, nuclear) in the entire grid, there's no way to know the specific source of power. Power is blended from all sources. 

If the background showed only a lit match, would you say fire is the power source?

33 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think electric can be cleaner then normal fuel,

not disputing that in a city environment but surely better to keep and old  car  running than to go  to the process of manufactruing a new  vehicle with all the steel and electric costs associated with  that

6 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

not disputing that in a city environment but surely better to keep and old  car  running than to go  to the process of manufactruing a new  vehicle with all the steel and electric costs associated with  that

Your probably right about that, but it depends a bit on how long you will keep that "old"  car running. At some point its better to replace it as it is more poluting.

 

Just say that it takes x polution to produce a car

Y polution = difference between electric car running and fuel car.

divide x by y and you will get a point where it would have been better to replace.

 

So its just really hard to say that its always better to keep a car running. 

 

Not going make a real argument about this as i don't know enough about this. Plus as i said before unless we can find a better way to get electricity its not going to help a lot. That is the main point.

1 minute ago, robblok said:

At some point its better to replace it as it is more poluting.

16 years  so  far..........in the UK still  no rust, gets used once a  week by a friend 50mpg  diesel only done 60k  miles, nothin g worng with it, had 2  new  tyres last week. Have to counter its long term  pollution against the pollution created in construction of a new vehicle.

4 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

16 years  so  far..........in the UK still  no rust, gets used once a  week by a friend 50mpg  diesel only done 60k  miles, nothin g worng with it, had 2  new  tyres last week. Have to counter its long term  pollution against the pollution created in construction of a new vehicle.

So what is your point with this really specific situation ?

 

In your case its pointless to change it but does not mean its the same for everyone OR that they can make rules that fit everyone.

 

But what are you trying to get at ? What are you trying to prove ?

Mining for raw materials for batteries, solar cells, etc.  Right now EV carbon footprint is huge and maybe equal to keeping an older car on the road.  Local air is better.   I do hope we can solve this.   Some miracle to get solar efficiency to to 80% from 20.  Some magic battery tech. 

20 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

From the Local Forum roolz;-

"If you see a relevant article on the net that may be interesting (doesn't have to be in Thailand), please post. Don't forget to respect the "Fair Use" guidelines, a couple of paragraphs, maybe a photo and a link."

 

Unless it's from a news source that the so called 'fact checkers' deem to be 'poor quality' or spreading rumors.

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

Enter Covid.

Then do everything possible to keep 'em all alive. (not complaining, just an observation)

Right now cities around the world are affected by BROWN outs where during peak hours there is not enough hydro.

The best time is at night because most businesses are closed and people are at home.  Therefore less power used.

 

However, once you go green and only EV just imagine the power drain and usage there will be from all the cars being plugged in and charging.

 

Imagine dad has an important meeting goes home plugs the car in and knows that it will be ready and he has to leave at 6 to get to the meeting.

 

Dad wakes up only to find out that there is a power outage during the night.

The EV pumps I am sure have auto shut off but I bet like a gas pump someone has to press the handle or push the button to restart.

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

So what is your point with this really specific situation ?

 

In your case its pointless to change it but does not mean its the same for everyone OR that they can make rules that fit everyone.

 

But what are you trying to get at ? What are you trying to prove ?

Keep  your  old  car running by repairing it, many dont rust  like they used to, certainly  before they got  crammed  full  of electronics they were pretty reliable to.

19 hours ago, 2long said:

Aside from fuel required to charge these things, how are the batteries made, and what happens to the batteries when their (short) life ends? ????

Walking, or cycling consume 'clean' energy. Using mules, elephants etc is no longer acceptable.

 

Too many people on the planet, and we need to reduce or at least control the number... ????

Yeah, let's have another world war. 70 years of peace is enough.

In reality we have to overcome Inequality, giving good education, provide good food for everyone and act as a Community not enemies. Sharing is important not exploitation.,, ????

3 hours ago, robblok said:

So what is your point with this really specific situation ?

 

In your case its pointless to change it but does not mean its the same for everyone OR that they can make rules that fit everyone.

 

But what are you trying to get at ? What are you trying to prove ?

I saw an article or maybe a video on this recently ... 

If you have a three year old BMW and fancy an upgrade and decide to go electric for it, then yes it is more polluting than waiting till the beamer really needs replacing and then going electric. That is because of all the extra production involved in producing the new car as well as the problems with lithium extraction, phenomenal amounts of water used for the batteries etc.

I don't have a car and haven't for years, but if I was to buy one I'd go electric now. There are still gaps in the charger grid, but they're closing fast and electric where I live (1st. world) is a viable option now.

And electric at least gets the noxious filth off the streets in cities.

They're great fun to drive as well ... even a Golf goes like a rocket ;D

Lithium and Cobalt are horribly difficult to mine, and their reserves are finite. Batteries have a short life and are then scrapped. EVs are a waste of time, money and resources. Hydrogen makes more sense but is difficult to extract from it's source, ie gas. The internal combustion engine is not going to be easy to replace.

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Cute picture and comment.

But a little hyperbolic.

Do you understand how power grids work? Unless this power plant is a completely isolated plant and its power distribution connects directly to the Telsa hookup shown in the picture or if there's no other noncoal power plant (ie., wind turbine, battery, nuclear) in the entire grid, there's no way to know the specific source of power. Power is blended from all sources. 

If the background showed only a lit match, would you say fire is the power source?

"...a little hyperbolic.  Do you understand how power grids work?"

Do you understand how hyperbole works?  That's rhetorical, obviously you don't.    There sure wasn't any hyperbole in the OP (it was more like understatement), neither did he suggest that the power plant was the direct charging source for the car.