Why Do You Stay?

[Old Croc]

Some here confuse anonymous, impotent, moaning and complaining with activism.

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Not if they have money.

You think rich but chronically ill people are happy?

[Dart12]

14 hours ago, mikebike said:

I think, somehow, you misunderstand the Christian doctrine of "dying for your sins" and all if the old testament. 

but here on earth he was a known and prosecuted criminal by the authority in charge.  I think you are missing the factual happenings of history here. 

 

The Romans did not crucify him to justify his actions.  They did it because he broke laws. 

 

This does not change anything from the Bible and Jesus' purpose in doing what he did for his people.

[Dart12]

16 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

Just because he rejected the eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth of the Pharisees by preaching love thy neighbour as thy self did not make him a criminal.

Under the government in place., yes he was a criminal.    He was crucified for treason.  This is not disputed in history.  He spoke and fought for what was right, and much of what he did were crimes against the laws of the land.

And that fact does not erase him as the savior.  

 

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

but here on earth he was a known and prosecuted criminal by the authority in charge.  I think you are missing the factual happenings of history here. 

 

The Romans did not crucify him to justify his actions.  They did it because he broke laws. 

 

This does not change anything from the Bible and Jesus' purpose in doing what he did for his people.

IMO it is you that is missing history. The Romans didn't convict him, but the Jews did and as the Romans were the only ones allowed to crucify they did it for the Jews.

The laws he broke were Jewish religious laws and not Roman laws, and the religious leaders got rid of him IMO because he was a threat to their power.

 

Anyway, if anyone wants to carry this on there is a thread specific to religion on the Pub subforum, and this is off topic on this thread, so I won't reply to any more posts about it on this thread.

[The Hammer2021]

6 hours ago, HappyGoLuckyLife said:

Who is spreading anything other than asking a legit question that received legit answers from all sides? It's not your cup of tea. I get it. Yet, you feel the need to let everyone know it's not your cup of tea. Enjoy the sun and don't take the internet too seriously.

The internet, like other media has been used to spread malicious lies and untruths. Such abuses should be taken seriously. The OP has used this forum to troll, writing nonesense and untruthful statements. He asserts only the negative and is thus biased

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The internet, like other media has been used to spread malicious lies and untruths. Such abuses should be taken seriously.

One man's lie is another man's truth.

[Gecko123]

I think the number one reason people remain is financial. Even someone who planned with the utmost care and still has a very healthy financial cushion could be forgiven for not having anticipated how much housing costs in their home countries have become (grossly) inflated as a result of monetary policy in the past 20 years.

 

From a logistical standpoint, the pandemic, tightening immigration polices in many  countries attractive to expats, the ability to learn a foreign language or adapt to a new culture as one ages, and changing priorities as one ages have made relocation planning more complex. Without wanting to sound like I think I'm Henry Kissinger, shifting geopolitical tensions, and the cultural and political climate in your home country need to be factored in as well.

 

Someone who moved to Thailand at the relatively youthful age of 40 or 50 could reasonably have afforded to risk self-insuring medical costs and not had to worry about long-term care costs, but in their 60's, 70's and '80's, no longer have that luxury. Learning a new language and adapting to a new culture often becomes more daunting as one ages. And while as a 20 something foreign exchange student in Paris, you could easily bound up the metro stairs three steps at a time, or cheerfully lug your laundry to and from your 6th floor flat to the corner laundromat, that may well become a daunting prospect as your golden years fast approach.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Gecko123

[Jingthing]

For anyone that really thinks it's always the poor planning of expats that is responsible for people being squeezed out of Thailand or anywhere, maybe talk to participants in Malaysia's My 2nd Home program. That is if they can spare the time as they prepare to leave the country that they were suckered into thinking would be their final berth.

In other words caca happens.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Jingthing

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

11 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

better for whom? In whose opinion?

BETTER for everybody. there is an ultimate and absolute better.

for example, if your car is making a funny noise and your wife complain about it,

she can push you to go to the mechanic and this will make the car a better car

for and for her and for the entire human race.

[ramrod711]

I can swim every day. Much more difficult to do in Canada, with the ice and all.

[Old Croc]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

For anyone that really thinks it's always the poor planning of expats that is responsible for people being squeezed out of Thailand or anywhere, maybe talk to participants in Malaysia's My 2nd Home program. That is if they can spare the time as they prepare to leave the country that they were suckered into thinking would be their final berth.

In other words caca happens.

Instead of expecting readers to have knowledge of (or are in contact with people involved in) this program, why not explain what you are referring to?

Not everyone has an obsession with following retirement criteria for all countries beyond this one.

Presumably Malaysia has moved the goalposts?

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

 And while as a 20 something foreign exchange student in Paris, you could easily bound up the metro stairs three steps at a time, or cheerfully lug your laundry to and from your 6th floor flat to the corner laundromat, that may well become a daunting prospect as your golden years fast approach.

 

I still can't figure out why they call them "golden years". Nothing golden about them. Much better to be 20 and broke.

[thaibeachlovers]

36 minutes ago, gearbox said:

I still can't figure out why they call them "golden years". Nothing golden about them. Much better to be 20 and broke.

Dunno about being better and broke, but when I was 20 I changed jobs and my pay doubled. I'd definitely prefer to be 20 and on the same pay than my present age even though I now have a decent car and some spare money. My first car was a clapped out Ford Consul rust bucket at age 24. Before that all I could afford was a clapped out Matchless 250 m'bike. Had to wait till I was 28 to be able to afford a decent Ford Escort on hp.

[KhunLA]

Not sure about that.  I'm still the LPOS I was in my 20's, just a bit slower and don't bounce as good.  Like having a lot more money though.

[aussienam]

On 10/11/2021 at 8:26 AM, CharlieH said:

The decisions made as a 50 yr old don't always sit with a 65 yr old, but the bed has been made so they lie in it.

Some have gone "all in " and basically would be going back to nothing and no one, the country they knew is long gone.

Better the devil you know for many. Like or not it is there home now.

Agreed.  To change to another country at a whim for many is expensive and often financially unachievable.  Those of us on the lower-economic scale have far less options.  Thailand was the pick of a few places thought about mainly based on cost of living.  It can be a one-way commitment for many, rightly or wrongly, even foolishly, it is the truth. Plenty burn their bridges to get here.  Once here, life's problems fester.  And the perhaps idyllic vision of what Thailand should be like hits hard when reality bites.  I don't love Thailand, but I don't hate it either.  Wealthier people have a far better ability to change their situation if it does not suit them, hence they can be happier.  

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by aussienam

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, gearbox said:

I still can't figure out why they call them "golden years". Nothing golden about them. Much better to be 20 and broke.

When I was 20 I was desperate for sex nearly all the time, barely managed once a week.

When I was 50+ in Thailand I was getting plenty every day.

 

50+ was better than 20, and even at 65 I'm getting more than I was age 20 (and with better looking women).

Edited October 13, 2021 by BritManToo

[zzaa09]

On 10/10/2021 at 6:12 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

People generally enjoy moaning and complaining about things . Its much easier to moan and complain, rather than giving a reasoned  view 

From long years of personal observations, these same types will be miserable most anywhere that they settle.

Has most to do with the general character of the individual, less the locale.

[HappyGoLuckyLife]

8 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The internet, like other media has been used to spread malicious lies and untruths. Such abuses should be taken seriously. The OP has used this forum to troll, writing nonesense and untruthful statements. He asserts only the negative and is thus biased

Sorry if I'm giving you forum PTSD or something, but while I understand there is a fine line between being curious and being a troll, there are some of use that genuinely want to know other people's take on a matter as to no paint everyone with blanket statements. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by HappyGoLuckyLife
Removed possible inflammatory statement.

[HappyGoLuckyLife]

3 hours ago, aussienam said:

Thailand was the pick of a few places thought about mainly based on cost of living.  It can be a one-way commitment for many, rightly or wrongly, even foolishly, it is the truth.

Well stated. In my own situation it's Thailand or bust, so I see what you're saying. Honestly, I learned a lot in this thread. I had a few misconceptions that I was able to identify by looking at the situation from a wealth of perspectives. Don't get my wrong, there are plenty that will gripe just for the hell of it. But for others, there are underlying (valid) reasons for feeling how they do. That's the purpose of this post. Heck, even got a little theology lesson in somewhere above. ????

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Instead of expecting readers to have knowledge of (or are in contact with people involved in) this program, why not explain what you are referring to?

Not everyone has an obsession with following retirement criteria for all countries beyond this one.

Presumably Malaysia has moved the goalposts?

https://www.expatgo.com/my/2021/08/12/shocking-new-mm2h-programme-requirements-will-disqualify-nearly-all-applicants-and-existing-visa-holders/

 

SHOCKING: New MM2H Programme Requirements Will Disqualify Nearly All Applicants AND Existing Visa Holders

 

The just-announced revised MM2H programme comes with truly onerous new requirements called ‘hostile’ by one MM2Her, and consultants say it will likely doom the popular visa scheme.

The new Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme has been announced, and it will certainly not be welcomed by many people at all. The new requirements, which take effect in October 2021, add considerable strength to the argument that many expats have expressed to us, concluding that the current government simply does not want them here.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Jingthing

[swissie]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

https://www.expatgo.com/my/2021/08/12/shocking-new-mm2h-programme-requirements-will-disqualify-nearly-all-applicants-and-existing-visa-holders/

 

SHOCKING: New MM2H Programme Requirements Will Disqualify Nearly All Applicants AND Existing Visa Holders

 

The just-announced revised MM2H programme comes with truly onerous new requirements called ‘hostile’ by one MM2Her, and consultants say it will likely doom the popular visa scheme.

The new Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme has been announced, and it will certainly not be welcomed by many people at all. The new requirements, which take effect in October 2021, add considerable strength to the argument that many expats have expressed to us, concluding that the current government simply does not want them here.

The doors are closing. Sorry, I mentioned that before.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, swissie said:

The doors are closing. Sorry, I mentioned that before.

In Malaysia yes.

Other places on a case by case basis.

[zzaa09]

19 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Some here confuse anonymous, impotent, moaning and complaining with activism.

Interesting how that works, huh?

[mikebike]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

For anyone that really thinks it's always the poor planning of expats that is responsible for people being squeezed out of Thailand or anywhere, maybe talk to participants in Malaysia's My 2nd Home program.

Apparently those indulging in the Maylay program forgot the golden rule of that decision: "HOPE for the best, PLAN for the worst".

 

Caca happens, but should be accounted for in good planning.

 

If they didn't think that the whole program could implode at some point, and didn't plan for that potentiality, they didn't do the work. Period.

Edited October 13, 2021 by mikebike

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

Apparently those indulging in the Maylay program forgot the golden rule of that decision: "HOPE for the best, PLAN for the worst".

 

Caca happens, but should be accounted for in good planning.

 

If they didn't think that the whole program could implode at some point, and didn't plan for that potentiality, they didn't do the work. Period.

Ultimately, the only way you could cover every possible contingency associated with living abroad would be to retain the ability to repatriate at anytime. There's a lot to be said for using that as a test of your financial preparedness for expat-hood, but I think just about everyone is forced to take calculated risks at some point.

 

I think this is especially true for people considering beginning their expat adventure these days. Chances are that someone considering retirement or early retirement today has had to plow a large share of their income into housing costs, which has eroded their ability to save. Even if they managed to pay off their mortgage, a large portion of their net worth is going to be tied up in real estate. If they sell the house to finance their retirement, they're gonna be at the mercy of the housing market should they ever decide to repatriate.

 

I've been looking at Mexico ex-pat You-tube videos, (not because I'm planning on moving there, but because I have family there.) I see what look like droves of new arrivals raving about how cheap apartments are, seemingly moving to Mexico at the drop of a hat, thinking they are going to support themselves as You-Tube "influencers," blissfully oblivious to what would happen if the dollar dramatically depreciated (as I believe it will.) Compared to that level of shortsightedness, I think retired Malaysian expats upset that a visa program has been abruptly changed should be empathized with.

 

To me, it seems almost inhumane and playing with people's lives when a country suddenly changes visa requirements for people who have generally stopped working and are living on a fixed income. I understand rules need to be adjusted from time to time, but those rule changes should apply to those who are considering moving there in the future, not those who have already made a commitment based on the rules in force at the time.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Gecko123

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

When I was 20 I was desperate for sex nearly all the time, barely managed once a week.

When I was 50+ in Thailand I was getting plenty every day.

 

50+ was better than 20, and even at 65 I'm getting more than I was age 20 (and with better looking women).

You must have started after the pill was available. When I was a young adult, the nice girls I knew didn't, because they didn't want to get pregnant, ergo my sexual experience started much later than yours.

[The Cipher]

On 10/10/2021 at 5:53 PM, HappyGoLuckyLife said:

As a recent member to the forums, I've been reading through the various threads. There's a diverse group here. I can say that for sure. However I have a question for members, who at least on the surface come off as really hating their lives in living in Thailand. I am not sure if this has been pre pandemic, or it's been that way for a while. But I really want to know, if Thailand is as bad, anti-farang, dangerous, miserable (insert adjective here) place to be, then why are you still here? What makes you stay in spite of feeling such misery. I am only trying to understand where it all went to hell for some of you. Care to share?

I've been confused about this also. A large portion of the forum seem generally unhappy but it is also rare that I come across a post of someone taking action to improve their situation. But having read the litany of other people's complaints I asked myself well, why am I here? So this post is just me articulating my inner monologue that I'm about to have with myself. Here goes:

 

I get bored easily. No matter where in the world I am, I start getting antsy after a few months in any one location and feel the need to travel. Having just turned 30 this year, with a reasonably successful career to this point, and now newly remote-ish thanks to the fallout from Covid, I'm in a position where it's started to make sense to move to a dual city living setup - something my parents and many of their friends have done for years. Always seemed like a good life to me.

 

For various reasons major Asian cities were the only options that made sense for me. I've spent meaningful time in quite a few Asian cities, but it was easy to narrow down four options for consideration: Singapore, Bangkok, Seoul, and Hong Kong. Crossed Seoul and Hong Kong off the list pretty quickly. Bangkok and Singapore left. Ultimately Bangkok won out because the lifestyle offered was similar but at a much lower price point. Choosing Bangkok over Singapore has allowed me to transition to a dual city lifestyle while still managing to save a significant amount of my paycheque each month, and that's worth tens of thousands of dollars to me on an annual basis.

 

Genuinely, my day-to-day lifestyle in Bangkok is not worse than Singapore (a place I find many posters on here mythologize), and the opportunity cost of foregoing those savings - and more specifically the investment compounding of them - would be worth literally millions of dollars over the 35 year time horizon until my hypothetical retirement at 65.

 

So on some level, I suppose I chose the country for financial reasons similar to other posters? But at the same time not really. I've genuinely enjoyed my time in Bangkok (lockdowns notwithstanding) and expect to continue to enjoy it as an Asian home-base for at least the next decade. Value per dollar spent on lifestyle experiences is fantastic, there's a ton of cool stuff to do in the city alone, and once travel normalizes I fully believe that it will be a great staging point for inter-region excursions.

 

Is it a perfect place? No, of course not. As with many on here, I also have my gripes with certain policies. 90 day reporting is dumb and the car import tax is a pet peeve of mine. The language barrier is also something I have to grapple with from time to time.

 

Besides that stuff, I am a little sad that networking opportunities in Thailand seem to be pretty bleak - especially compared to Singapore. As evidenced by some of my interactions on here, I find it hard to relate to many of the existing foreigners who have settled in Thailand and I do wish that there were more people with backgrounds and outlooks similar to my own. Nevertheless, I'm cautiously hopeful that some of the new visa classes and post-Covid shifts in the nature of work begin to bring foreigners that I am more readily compatible with.

 

Oh well. Can't really complain. Have had a great time so far, and hope that I will not have cause to become jaded as the years roll by. I think spending a big chunk of my year outside of the country should help with that. If you're still reading, thanks for bearing with me as I dumped out my stream of consciousness onto my keyboard. Cheers. ????

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

To me, it seems almost inhumane and playing with people's lives when a country suddenly changes visa requirements for people who have generally stopped working and are living on a fixed income. I understand rules need to be adjusted from time to time, but those rule changes should apply to those who are considering moving there in the future, not those who have already made a commitment based on the rules in force at the time.

That would require those in charge to give a <deleted>. IMO they don't.

In the end, IMO they only allowed us to stay because it suited them at the time, not because they wanted a load of old foreigners about the place.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Genuinely, my day-to-day lifestyle in Bangkok is not worse than Singapore (a place I find many posters on here mythologize)

Singapore (a place I find many posters on here mythologize)

 

Can't say I've noticed that on here. I'm almost the only poster that comments about Singapore far as I've seen.

Singapore was the cheese in the early 70s and then it went greedy, and puritanical.

I'd have gone there to work if things had been different, but I'd never want to retire there. Waaaaay too sterile and expensive for my liking. I'd rather live in Thailand, for all its faults.