Elderly expats dazed and confused over insurance, ‘retirement visas’ and COVID

[elgenon]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes and yes..... 

Thanks for reply! Much better than having to buy a policy from a Thai company.

[jerrymahoney]

1 hour ago, Dante99 said:

 

Also some have sufficient assets to effectively "self insure" at the coverage level required.  Get that?

That may be true and preferable for some. But, at least for now, should they exit the Kingdom, 'self-insure' would not get them back in.

[Chad3000]

52 minutes ago, 10baht said:

BS, check the requirement, like money in the bank for one.

Not BS. Permanent domicile is not in US. Vast majority have little or no connection to Thailand. Vast majority hunker down in cities like Pattaya, Hua Hin, Chaing Mai all tourist cities.

 

IMO O designation only because it's an over 50 retirement type of visa.

 

Thailand is giving you a visa for two years they're are going to be stipulations.

 

No commitment and most have about as much deep exposure to Thailand and especially Asia as the average long stay tourist.

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, elgenon said:

Thanks for reply! Much better than having to buy a policy from a Thai company.

Agreed, however (most likely mentioned often in the thread)

it's an issue and unfair for some.

For example I just renewed my annual extension this week and if I went back to Oz to visit my family then my return I would be stamped in for ~10-11 months which would require a years insurance coverage.

Have no idea of that cost so could be a small or large consideration.

 

[fiddlehead]

5 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I am trying to understand how an older person would put themself in a situation where they would not have/want medical insurance.  I can understand it’s an unwelcome cost.  Can also understand that some may not be able to qualify due to age and/or prior illness.  However, having no medical insurance coverage seems somewhat high risk.  I am sure I am missing something so seeking to understand the situation

In 1985, my health insurance coverage refused to pay for stiches in my hand.  I had been paying them $350 a month for the past 10 years or so.    I stopped the coverage at that time (when they refused to pay for my hand problem because of their fine print exemptions)    Since then, prices have gone up dramatically, but, even if they hadn't, I figure they lost AT LEAST  $4000 a year for the past 35 years from me!    That amount of savings (by me) should cover any  medical problem that I come up  with here in Thailand.   I hope that helps you understand.    I've had two trips to the hospital here in my 20 years here and they cost me a combined total of $4,500         

[ignis]

4 hours ago, Chaichara said:

Yes, it is.

I renewed my retirement visa yesterday. There was no mention of insurance. I'm still curious to know what would happen if I left the country (for example for one day to Laos over the nearby friendship bridge) and return the same day. Fortunately I do have medical insurance (who would want to stay in a public Thai hospital?),  although it doesn't cover as much as  ฿3mio.  At my age it's already very expensive.

 (who would want to stay in a public Thai hospital?)

 

what is wrong with a public Thai hospital ?  have stayed twice 2015 {Red Cross] + 2020 [Local Village Government Hospital] both times perfectly fine.

 

Did stay in a Private Hospital in 2004 = very expensive + Operation very expensive + had to pay up front + in a single room = every person that came into the room would switch on the TV and air condition, hate air Con and still do,  if I was awake then would ask them to switch both OFF. or ring for nurse because was freezing to death..

[Dante99]

10 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

That may be true and preferable for some. But, at least for now, should they exit the Kingdom, 'self-insure' would not get them back in.

nor would telling them just let me die

 

but I was addressing a specific post, not the issue of what you need to get back in

Edited November 6, 2021 by Dante99

[Polaky]

46 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes and yes..... 

I believe the only time you need to buy from a thai insurer is when renewing a Non OA in country.

[jerrymahoney]

28 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

nor would telling them just let me die

 

but I was addressing a specific post, not the issue of what you need to get back in

Well OK self-insure worked for you because you did not get real sick. For most people, health insurance is a bad deal because most people do not get real sick. However, it seems to me,  that most people who get real sick did not expect to ever get real sick and if they had insurance -- bought or  provided -- the medical expenses can greatly exceed the amounts paid in.

 

But hindsight is always great when one can say that their actual medical casts are far less than they might have paid in for insurance. But that's hindsight.

[Dante99]

25 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Well OK self-insure worked for you because you did not get real sick.

How do you know that?  Do you have copies of all my medical records?

[Lazybones]

23 hours ago, pookiki said:

As it stands now, all persons entering Thailand (except those with work permits with medical insurance under the Thai healthcare system), must have health insurance with a minimum of US$50,000.00 coverage that includes treatment for COVID. This is less than the 'new' requirement for O-A visa holders that will require US$100,000 medical insurance that includes treatment for COVID. Currently, expats on O visas are not required to have any insurance.  Frankly I don't see how those on O visas will be allowed to continue with no insurance but one never knows for sure.  For sure, the system needs to be overhauled and certainly some elderly people are 'trapped' in having to meet the new insurance requirements if they leave Thailand and then return as they have in the past.  I don't see a resolution to this problem soon.

I have seen no mention in the Thailand pass rules about covid coverage in the $50,000 insurance so why bring it up?

[jerrymahoney]

19 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

How do you know that?  Do you have copies of all my medical records?

No -- I got the wrong post. I was referring (I thought) to the guy who said that he's had two trips to the hospital here in his 20 years in LOS for a total of $4,500         

[John Drake]

19 hours ago, gearbox said:

If your policy covers covid it is compliant, you just need to upload the policy (relevant part of it) when applying for the Thailand Pass. It doesn't need to be travel insurance. If you don't have the paperwork ask your insurer to email it to you.

Yes, just upload the policy, after you figure out if you have enough or you need to change or buy more.  Then come all the other justs.

Just download the app

Just navigate and fill in the buggy app

Just change your email address to one that will work with TP

Just pay for your 1 or 2 night quarantine hotel and provide the info

Just get clearance on your plane ticket and enter the info

Just pay for your covid test and enter the info

Just wait and hope your application is received

Just wait on pins and needles for your QR code and approval for your flight that leaves tomorrow

Just provide separate proof of your covid vaccinations

Just convert everything into jpeg format

Just hope you're not sitting next to someone on the plane who tests Covid positive and puts you in quarantine at a hospital for two weeks and costs you 100,000 baht

 

OR!!!

 

If you're in the US, just get on a plane and go to a Mexican resort.

 

Which option would anybody in their right mind choose?

 

[10baht]

2 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

Vast majority hunker down in cities like Pattaya, Hua Hin, Chaing Mai all tourist cities.

 

IMO O designation only because it's an over 50 retirement type of visa.

 

Thailand is giving you a visa for two years they're are going to be stipulations.

 

No commitment and most have about as much deep exposure to Thailand and especially Asia as the average long stay tourist.

Majority? Most?  You are painting with a broad brush. Not so north of Chiang Mai.

[Bogbrush]

2 hours ago, elgenon said:

I'm confused. The Thai government is no longer requiring the Covid insurance be bought from a Thai company? So I can enter with a $50,000 travel insurance policy? If so, would it have to explicitly state that it covers Covid?

 

Thanks.

A tourist needs 50k, an OA needs 100k, both to cover the visa/extension validity. Thai company requirement fell away 1st Oct - Specific Covid cover not mentioned any more, it seems.

[SunsetT]

8 hours ago, James Roderick said:

Hi Sunset Can yu tell me more about the Emirates deal ??

 

Just go onto Emirates website, scroll down and open this link: https://www.emirates.com/th/english/before-you-fly/multi-risk-travel-insurance/

 

Most questions are also answered by Emirates here:

 

https://c.ekstatic.net/ecl/documents/before-you-fly/multi-risk-travel-insurance-faqs.pdf?h=_4vFoemLSIMxG_zq0fsk6g

 

As Salerno has pointed out above the offer now closes 21/12/21, so u need to get your skates on to take advantage of it and book a return flight to Thailand from the UK with Emirates before that date. Of course u will also need to book a one-way flight to the UK with any airline, although if u also purchased this with Emirates before 21/12/21 u would also automatically get insurance cover in the UK for 31 days, just in case u needed more than the free emergency cover provided by the NHS, assuming that u r a UK citizen.

 

 

I recommend using momondo.co.uk or skyscanner.net to check prices and book your flights, but be careful they do not automatically open in Thai mode with more expensive prices being shown.

 

Once u have booked your emirates flight u need to email AIG insurance to request a certificate of insurance stating that the cover includes Covid19. There is a link somewhere in the FAQs link above for this. This is now standard practice for them and it will be emailed to u in 3 or 4 days and u will need this to upload and obtain your Thailand Pass to return to Thailand with insurance valid up to the date of the return flight that u book to the UK (365days max.). Once u r safely back in Thailand u can probably change or cancel that flight for credit/refund just before the insurance expires. U will need to check the emirates terms and conditions for this.

 

I just returned to Thailand for 6 months with emirates cover for entry. The flight was £800 with emirates but I paid £700 through an online agent offered through momondo or skyscanner, I forget which. I will of course use my return flight, all being well, but bearing in my mind that u probably will not it might be better for u to pay more to book direct with emirates to take advantage of any possible refund or change for your return flight to the UK.

 

Good luck with it.

[Mark mark]

I had a NON - O visa after being stuck here in Australia last Year, and they said that I could not enter the country with a NON O visa (At  that time, ???) ... Like they said something like "Now they are not accepting NON O visas for entry to Thailand" ... And I saw men from the UK, with the same problem commenting on TV. back then also !!! .... and I was forced to get 440,000 THB insurance Policy .... ad the another  NON O-A !!! ... Which I did ... But well the lock down went on and it has expired, and I now need another NON O-A that Now required the new 3 Million THB Health Insurance Policy required !!! ??? ... (Yes I have been left with NO polite words at all to describe this !!!)

[Thingamabob]

7 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

Despite my earlier comments this lot of older, broke Pattaya expats (that have used agents to remain) really should go home. If they have no money and or are uninsurable then they will be a burden on a private hospital's stakeholders.

If anyone, of any age,  has no money in Thailand best to get out fast in any way you can. It's got nothing to do with being old.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

If anyone, of any age,  has no money in Thailand best to get out fast in any way you can. It's got nothing to do with being old.

It's usually not about no money. but rather lower money. Really, this is a case by case. Many would actually be better off staying here (if they can) than trying to live off their low money back home.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, elgenon said:

I'm confused. The Thai government is no longer requiring the Covid insurance be bought from a Thai company? So I can enter with a $50,000 travel insurance policy? If so, would it have to explicitly state that it covers Covid?

 

Thanks.

It was never required that COVID insurance be from a Thai company.

 

Yes and Yes.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Bogbrush said:

A tourist needs 50k, an OA needs 100k, both to cover the visa/extension validity. Thai company requirement fell away 1st Oct - Specific Covid cover not mentioned any more, it seems.

Does anyone happen to know if foreign policies can now be used for O-A extensions in country? Previously could not but I am nto clear on the current situation.

[brianwl]

Let’s get the facts straight that the Thai government is to polite to say.

 

1.  EU Bloc foreigners have been using Thai government hospitals and not paying the bill because their socialized medical insurance covers them at home.

 

2.  Insurance is only available from a specific list of Thai companies.  None of which cover for preexisting conditions or if you’re older than 72.

 

3.  US expats are caught in this scam because the Thai’s don’t want to point the finger at the EU.

 

4. US Veterans cannot obtain a letter of coverage that is acceptable by Thai immigration.

 

5.  Disabled US Veterans were and still are screwed for medical coverage by Congress since 1996 when they were specifically singled out as not being eligible for medical care outside the US except for service connected disabilities.

 

6.  Tricare although having a long list of approved providers, does in FACT, not have a single provider that directly bills them in Thailand.

 

Yes, I am the Expert on US Veteran medical care in Thailand.

[berrec]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:53 AM, Sheryl said:

 

The requirement has changed to general health insurance, not COVID only policy.

 

Migrant workers are required to enrol in mandatory health insurance scheme, which is basically the 30 baht system Thais have but for an annual fee. And, new entries are not being allowed. (Obviously people who enter illegally do nto meet any of the legal requirements).

Interesting article on Thailand health insurance schemes for migrants.

 

https://www.dovepress.com/getfile.php?fileID=62736

 

Would like to get on this health card program.

 

 

[medina21]

I posted this question yesterday. Perhaps someone knows the answer today. I have health insurance with Pacific Cross. The policy expires in mid August 2022 and will be renewed. If I take a short trip from Thailand between my 'extension' renewal in mid January 2022 and the expiry of my health insurance, would I only be 'stamped in' until the expiry date of my insurance? I have read that your health insurance must match the period of your 'extension'. Hope someone knows the answer. Thanks.

[skatewash]

On 11/5/2021 at 11:16 AM, silverhawk_usa said:

I have lived in Thailand 18 years and there seems to be constant confusion over Non-Imm A  and Non-Imm OA Visas.  This post and articles added some confusion for me.  The nomenclature is always corrected when someone says they received a new Visa when in fact it is an 'extension to stay".  My passport has an Non Imm O-A VISA.  I have been here all these years on a Retirement extension and the last two a Marriage extension.  No where does my passport show that these extensions changed my visa from an O-A to an O due to these extensions.  Can anyone who actually knows clarify this??

I share your frustration with the sloppiness of the nomenclature surrounding this and other immigration issues.  I will try to be accurate and precise.

This is my understanding of your situation:

You have an original Non-OA visa obtained from outside of Thailand from a Thai embassy or consulate from your home country.  You entered Thailand on that visa and subsequently have applied for and received annual extensions of stay for purpose of retirement based on that original Non-OA visa.  Therefore, unfortunately you are covered by the Non-OA (including extensions of stay therefrom) health insurance mandate, $100,000 USD coverage to include covid every time you apply for an annual extension of stay.  The coverage must cover the entire time of your extension of stay (if it is less than that your extension of stay will be reduced to match your insurance coverage).

UNLESS, you are grandfathered under the pre-2017 regulations.  Phuket Immigration is one immigration office (possibly the only one) who has a policy recognizing this grandfather status for people who have had a Non-OA for a long time.  Please read this from the Phuket Immigration Volunteer's informative site:

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/retirement/

 

Medical Insurance:

From October 2020 an medical insurance is required for every retirement extension if it is based on a original Non-OA visa (Issued at the Thai Embassy in your home country) following the criteria explained below than it has to be shown and included in the extension based on retirement.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued In or BEFORE 2017 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is before 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is AFTER 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is IS required for your extension.
Please use the following link https://longstay.tgia.org  to get more information about the required health insurance or click here to see the list of the accepted health insurance companies as of August 2020.
People who required the health insurance and who are not able to get the health insurance due to their age can discuss this with the officers in charge during their application in order to receive an exemption if necessary.
If the retirement extension is based on a (single entry) Non-O visa or from a conversion from Non-B or based on marriage etc then the health insurance is NOT required for the extension based retirement application.
Please contact the Immigration volunteers to check your situation and to see if you need the health insurance in case it is not clear for you. 

If you meet the grandfathering requirements then you do have to meet the Thai Immigration health insurance mandate, at least in Phuket.  You would have to question your local immigration office if they follow the same policy.

If you would like to get out from under the Thai Immigration health insurance mandate you would have to leave Thailand after your Non-OA visa is no longer valid (yours isn't) and WITHOUT a valid re-entry permit (this effectively cancels your current permission to stay).  This would allow you to obtain a Non-O visa from a country outside of Thailand OR enter Thailand visa-exempt and apply for a Non-O visa inside of Thailand at the local Immigration Office.  In either case, afterward, you would be able to obtain an annual extension of stay for purpose of retirement from your local immigration office (the same as you do now) but because your retirement extension would be based on a Non-O rather than a Non-OA visa you would entirely avoid the Thai Immigration health insurance mandate (that you are currently under because of your original Non-OA visa).

 

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Lord Bailish (GOT) “ I’m a little confused “. Lady Sansa “which charges (of the one thousand ever moving charges, apps., rules & documents under the Thai Govt. Tourism Recovery Scheme, are confusing to you  ?” . Lord Baylish “ the whole <deleted>show actually”.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

23 hours ago, Benmart said:

“No Country for Old Men” Indeed. Excellent Shout Out …..Ha ! Where is Anton Chigurh though ?

 

[Bogbrush]

49 minutes ago, medina21 said:

I posted this question yesterday. Perhaps someone knows the answer today. I have health insurance with Pacific Cross. The policy expires in mid August 2022 and will be renewed. If I take a short trip from Thailand between my 'extension' renewal in mid January 2022 and the expiry of my health insurance, would I only be 'stamped in' until the expiry date of my insurance? I have read that your health insurance must match the period of your 'extension'. Hope someone knows the answer. Thanks.

If you’re extending your visa in Jan 22 then your insurance needs extending at the same time - not Aug - or you won’t get a years extension, surely? The issue of you leaving/returning after extending in Jan then falls away, as your ‘valid till’ date stamped on return will be concomitant with your extension (and insurance) expiry in Jan 23.

 

Hope this helps? Simply put, both extensions (visa and insurance) need doing on the same day each year.

[skatewash]

21 hours ago, SunsetT said:

This article just creates more confusion by stating this false comparison as a 'main difference'! Both OA and O visas are obtained by applying at a Thai embassy or consulate overseas, and extensions for both are 'obtained from an immigration office within Thailand.'

Agree that the article is sloppy on nomenclature.  So here goes, this is my understanding:

Non-OA visas are only obtained outside of Thailand in your home country from a Thai embassy or consulate

Non-O visas can be obtained outside of Thailand from a Thai embassy or consulate

Non-O visas can be obtained INSIDE of Thailand from a Thai Immigration Office.  Here's how that's done in Phuket:

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/non-o-visa/
 

[chilli42]

10 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

What you are missing in my case is that (60):

 

I have over 1m THB in the bank here in Thailand

 

I'm not that old

 

I'm healthy. Never sick or ill.

 

Do not own a motorbike or auto

 

Have government SSO insurance

 

Have Aetna plan from work, 500k

 

Have additional covid policy.

 

When I stop working in a year or two I'll buy more insurance. Trouble is the policies are frought with caveats, exclusions.

So the issue is the “quality” of insurance coverage available?